okay. before everyone pops with whatever opinion is in their heads

1 : i just read about this

2: i want the opinion of trans women on the subject
3: i dont want arguments just rational discussion

4: if this thread has gotta be moved thats fine but i dont see why it should have to be frankly. if it gets out of hand ill personally ask for it to be deleted

okay. so the gist of it that im getting is that an old man on a reality show said that in his pre civil rights experience there werent race relations issues from the perspective of blacks. not irrelevant but for the purposes of this discussion thats clearly an opinion that hes entitled to.

he also said that homosexuals are going to hell and described graphically gay sex. why? whatd he say? no clue.

the point is theres a whole controversy over this and i really think that the whole pc thing has gone too far.

i dont watch tv. ive got movies and video games. even the free channels are unavailable in the middle of nowhere. so i have no connection to this person as a tv character. real or otherwise.

but it seems to me that organizations like glaad and people like jesse jackson have gone so over the top with hyperbole and condemnation that they seem to have forgotten that this guy is not only entitled to his opinion hes entitled to say what it is. publicly or otherwise. i cant speak to the race issue because aside from the fact that im white i wasnt alive before civil rights was a major issue. i was born 20 years after it became official.

as to the comments about gays going to hell and 'graphic descriptions of homosexual' intimacy acts. who cares. seriously. people are entitled to that opinion. and his expression of it is at worst offensive at best polite compared to the stereotyped nonsense and ignorance spewed by the general media and the fact that marriage equality is still an issue.

as a politically independant transwoman. is anyone else more irritated at this mans being attacked for his expression of his beliefs than at the beliefs themselves. its not like theyre new.

again i cant speak to the race issue. its not my place. 
but id rather be told im going to hell by the people who believe it than be told anything along the lines of 'dont worry. they wont be expressing hateful opinions anymore'

seriously. there is a place to draw the line. and its when you incite violence. not express conflicting or offensive viewpoints.

anyway.
sorry.
rant over.

anyone care to discuss?

also. just fyi kinda thing. id really like transwomens opinions but anyones would be cool. so. not discriminatimg just sayin. : p

nonameyet-

Phil Robertson (the duck dynasty guy) expressed his opinion in an GQ article in response to a direct question by GQ. GLAAD responded to the GQ article by expressing their own opinion about what Phil said. Both entities are perfectly within their rights to state an opinion; we still have that right in this country for the most part.

A&E (the network that hosts duck dynasty) pulled Phil out of the show in response to what GLAAD said, and that's when the fireworks started.

Phil has made no secret that he and his family are Christian. Viewers of the show took it that GLAAD was responsible for Phil disappearing, when it was actually somebody at A&E that made that decision in response to GLAAD's statement. A rookie mistake on A&E's part, and now they have quite a PR mess to clean up.

This reminds me of the big deal with chick-fil-a when Mr. Cathey expressed his Christian opinion about gays and everyone got excited about it. He has a right to his opinion just like Phil does, or just like you and I do.

My .02

I don't really care; about his views or what the media's doing about it. I think they are overreacting a bit, I mean what did they expect? They're a bunch of rednecks, I thought they'd be even more homophobic.

Meh...

The dude is a wanker and so-called "reality television" is garbage.

jesse jackson said. and im getting that question reality feeling typing it.

that what he said racially was worse than the man who asked rosa parks to give up her seat. because at least that man was within the scope of the law. this guy was just expressing his opiniom (paraphrasing but that was the gist of the words he used)

as for glaad freaking out i just feel that theyve been going too far for a while. im kinda saddened that theyre considered the go to organization for official statements on lgbt issues.

when eminem did his show with elton john they protested because of homophobic lyrics in his music. they protested. a straight man. working publicly and musically onstage. with a gay man. because of what they interpreted to be homophobic. so they didnt even want eminem to publicly express his support (in a way) or at least indifference to sexual orientation. because they disagreed with what he had to say.


i cant be the only one who sees contradiction there. i feel like glaad is made up of straight people who are trying too hard.

but the point is. this guy wasnt enciting action against blacks or gays. as far as i read he wasnt even being racist. but youve got people protesting his appearance on the show and all that. im glad ( no pun intended) hes going back on it.

im just frustrated with the backward attitudes and double standards from people that one would think would be more open to free expression of ideas.

While I think what he said was rather homophobic and racist I couldn't really care less. In my opinion it is bad journalism. There is so much going on in our country, peoples whose rights are being trampled on and all we can focus are the ramblings of an old rich white person. Jeez our news is horrible and this is one of the many reasons why I believe Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are the best news reporters in this country. There are so many things that need to be covered and fought for and it is a shame that we focus on such trivial matters and kick those who need it on the ground and steal everything from them....

Quote from: nonameyet on December 27, 2013, 11:22:39 PM
im just frustrated with the backward attitudes and double standards from people that one would think would be more open to free expression of ideas.

It is free. He has something to say about it, and everyone else has something to say about him. But he's not getting arrested for it or anything.

i would like to note that what i mean is that its not racist to say 'i didnt see racism at the time' its kinda like saying 'he didnt seem gay'



im actually worn out on the subject already. i didnt think anyone would respond, really : / i just wanted to rant.

kinda wishing i hadnt said anything : |

im just gonna let this one play out without me now.

You don't have to we're just talking about it because it's fun to talk about :3 lol

As a newcomer to the LGBT community, I might have responded a little more fervently than someone jaded by a long struggle.

I don't watch Duck Dynasty, but I've been noticing their merchandise just flooding the local Wal-Mart where I shop, and beyond almost mistaking a pair of slippers with a bearded guy on them for Hobbit merchandise, they haven't annoyed me.

However, when I read about it and heard about it, I now go through Wal-Mart and I can't resist a moment of contempt or disgust whenever I see that bearded guy.

Sure, he's just some idiot on a reality TV show.  What difference is there if there's one more ignorant redneck?  But the fact is, it's not just his impact as an individual.  It's his impact on his viewers, and to everyone who hears his views.  Views are not challenged in these viewers, they are reinforced and justified, by having a guy on TV confirm them.  When younger viewers who may be gay hear this, they are dehumanized and discouraged from fulfilling their true selves. 

As for the freedom of speech thing, I think it's a matter of imbalance.  A lot of people are in arms over Robertson being suppressed for "political correctness", and the fact is that many more LGBT people have been suppressed and silenced for centuries.  It's not a matter of restricting speech- if you do that, you create a bigger evil.  But censuring and punishing people who do is right, because it has to be demonstrated that those kind of statements are now inappropriate, and the more times that happens the more times people will learn that it's wrong.

So, maybe I'm just not jaded, but that's why I'm not happy with this thing, cause I live in a community where this smeghead has a lot more impact than he ought.

As a former Law Enforcement Officer what I am going to say may upset some folks here, but that is not the intent. He has a Constitutional right to free speech the same as we do. No one wins any type of controversy such as this. If he pushes, he is discriminating. If we push back and try to silence him, we are discriminating. Just let it roll off your back folks. OK, enough said, address all hate mail to me by PM please and I will keep it confidential and not reprint or address it in an open forum. I hope, however, that everyone see's this type of controversy for what it really is....RATINGS, RATINGS, RATINGS! A&E is being successful in getting publicity like crazy for the show and increasing it's audience by making this bigger than it is. It's Hollywood people. 

Quote from: mountainhun on December 27, 2013, 11:41:04 PM
It's his impact on his viewers, and to everyone who hears his views.  Views are not challenged in these viewers, they are reinforced and justified, by having a guy on TV confirm them. 

Well, honestly, only a complete and utter moron would base their views on a television program. People that are that stupid are beyond all hope anyway. As far as Duck Dynasty is concerned, I didn't even know what it was until all of this crap started. I thought it was a cartoon program judging by the title and I don't pay much attention to current TV shows since I don't have cable TV and I don't pay attention to stupid, new shows since I hold the opinion that pretty all new stuff sucks (both TV and music).

Besides, I don't give a duck about some dorky redneck so, duck him. That dude can duck off and go duck himself.

I actually feel bad for him.

Here he is, on a show about a certain type of person, and then he gets in trouble for being that type of person. He made the network a lot of money.

I am not surprised that he is fundamentalist Christian nor am I surprised, he shares their biased beliefs of people like me. Many elected politicians believe the same or similar things. They get time on TV and make money for news networks.

Never watched the show.

I'm a Christian and I can say from my own study from the bible that you will most definitely not go to hell for this. The only unforgivable sin is intentionally leading others into sin.

It's not wrong to feel a certain way about someone.

I can understand people being hurt by this, though it's hardly something to get so riled up over.
It's his opinion. Just like someone's opinion of him might be derogatory.
But 2 "wrongs" don't make a right.
We all need to watch ourselves so we are not hypocritical.
That's what I think is wrong with our country.
Too many hypocrites on liberal AND the conservative side.

My parents like watching the show. The times I have seen it, it was entertainment. Like many books and movies written about people, things are hyped up to become more interesting. Real life is a drag so any drama, humor or otherwise is built in to produce the kind of programs that will drive viewership.
Opinion given by himself (Mr. Robertson) does not necessarily reflect A&E or their company. It reflects solely on his character as a person and his own given beliefs. Opinions of which (as an American citizen) are held as a 1st amendment right in the US that shall not be infringed.

Quote from: Emo on December 28, 2013, 12:29:16 AM
I'm a Christian and I can say from my own study from the bible that you will most definitely not go to hell for this. The only unforgivable sin is intentionally leading others into sin.

It's not wrong to feel a certain way about someone.

I can understand people being hurt by this, though it's hardly something to get so riled up over.
It's his opinion. Just like someone's opinion of him might be derogatory.
But 2 "wrongs" don't make a right.
We all need to watch ourselves so we are not hypocritical.
That's what I think is wrong with our country.
Too many hypocrites on liberal AND the conservative side.

i can say from my own reading of the bible and interpretation of christs teachimgs that there is no unforgivable sin.

in fact gods willingness to forgive in any situation is strongly emphasized throughout. though there are contradictions scattered throughout that lead to other conclusions. likely the cause of meddling by interpreters over the years.

anyway. point being that the whole notion of christ is that he died for our sins. and therefore by definition all are forgiven.

anyway. there are any number of ways to look at it but the way i see it there are far
far. far worse sins than leading others into sin.

id also like to note on the 'what is and what isnt appropriate anymore' note.

mongoloid is a word that was once considered a technically accurate term for people with down's syndrome ( i think it was down's anyway) its now considered a vulgar term.

the movie shrek 2 has a giant mentally challanged gingerbread man character.

hes referred to by shrek as a great stupid pastry.

his name. is Mongo


then again that movie has a pretty vulgar cross dressing joke too.  pinnochio is wearing a thong and blah blah. its really gross and dumb.

anyway. its a kids movie and the retarded character is mongo. and the wooden puppet is teased for cross dressing. the thong is even pulled and snapped by someone else. i find that way more offensive than being told im going to hell.

While I agree everyone should be able to have their own opinions. Yet does it really fall under freedom of speech? and if it does should being hateful or spreading hateful speech there of be allowed to be covered under freedom of speech?

Also in today's day and age should we really be publicizing it on such a massive scale?

I dunno, I don't agree with what he said, I don't believe it his "right" to say it openly on tv/mass media. Yet that is my opinion and i'd like to say if I don't have anything nice to say I won't say nothing at all, but I have said pretty hateful things to the people on the other side of the fence, not really sure if that makes me as guilty as him.

I think just rambling...

id also like to note on the 'what is and what isnt appropriate anymore' note.

mongoloid is a word that was once considered a technically accurate term for people with down's syndrome ( i think it was down's anyway) its now considered a vulgar term.

the movie shrek 2 has a giant mentally challanged gingerbread man character.

hes referred to by shrek as a great stupid pastry.

his name. is Mongo


then again that movie has a pretty vulgar cross dressing joke too.  pinnochio is wearing a thong and blah blah. its really gross and dumb.

anyway. its a kids movie and the retarded character is mongo. and the wooden puppet is teased for cross dressing. the thong is even pulled and snapped by someone else. i find that way more offensive than being told im going to hell.

@ aina

from my understanding it falls out of the realm of free speech when it incites violent behavior against others. which happens to coincide with my personal views so im not sure if thats factual or just my views.

seems right though.

To incite violence or promote any harm to others is not upheld by the constitution as it is violating someone's rights at that point.

It is not a shrewd move to promote such an opinion as he has and many others have as public relations will sour (public backlash, etc.). The attention span of any given group would be called into question as well. Will this blow over like nothing has ever occurred in a few weeks? or will people understand, that although he is within his right to say so, it would be an ethical challenge to continue to support such a viewpoint through currency, viewership, etc.