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The Gender Test

Started by Jenna Stannis, January 12, 2014, 09:59:01 PM

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If there were a test that could determine your gender, would you take it?

Yes, out of interest, but it wouldn't change the gender with which I identify
Yes, it would prove that I wasn't choosing my gender
Yes, it would help me decide whether I should fully transition
No, I don't need a test to tell me my gender
No, I may not be able to handle any unforseen results
No, I wouldn't want this kind of test on my records
Yes (other reasons)
No (other reasons)
Don't know
This poll sucks big time

Jenna Stannis

One vote and a viewing of the results once you have. Go to it!

Hopefully the nature of this poll won't offend (I have a knack of unwittingly doing so sometimes)
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Jamie D

Thank you Jenna.  Emil Faber once said, "Knowledge is good."
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Jerri

lol it would be interresting to see the criteria that would make up such a test, however the results would not likely change how i feel or what i do to correct those feelings, this path is far better for me than my past few decades trying to kill myself sometimes slowly sometimes with more resolve over feelings that i didnt understand or know how to deal with. I am living the real test now

Jerri
one day, one step, with grace it will be forward today
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Nero

I voted 'No, I don't need a test to tell me my gender'.
I might have been all over such a test early on, but now after transitioning it's a moot point that really doesn't matter.
I can't go back. I've changed too much. At this point, I am what I am and it really doesn't matter why. Even if a test proved I was always just a normal female, it wouldn't change anything. If it proved I really was just a male 'born in the wrong body' or whatever, it wouldn't change anything either at this point.

Anyway, I kind of expect that any kind of physical test would probably come back showing a lot of people who transitioned as typical specimens of their birth sex. What if this is just a spiritual journey with no physical cause? What if there are factors in someone's life that lead to them identifying more with the other gender? I think in some cases there may be factors causing someone to identify as trans who isn't - certain personality disorders, PTSD, trauma, abuse, etc. So if someone identifying as trans because of something like this can be helped through therapy or meds, that's great. I have seen cases where someone wants to transition and convinces themselves due to abuse. Barring something like that (assuming such things could be fixed), does it really matter if someone has any real claim to the gender they identify with?

Not really. I mean if a man just decided he identified more with women and wanted to live as one, would that be such a terrible thing? Not saying you're suggesting that, OP.

It gets a little more problematic when you consider the ftm case of course, because people will assume he's doing it to gain privilege.

Ok, this is getting kind of long here, but anyway I expect such a test would be all over the map. Something tells me those with any physical 'proof' of their identified gender would be in the minority (if not non-existent). And I'm not sure that matters.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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BunnyBee

I would take it just cause I think it would make it easier to explain things to people when it is necessary, or at least give me a new way ti do so, if it came back positive.  If it came back negative it wouldn't change anything or make me feel any less female or make me detransition or anything.
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Lauren5

I remember taking one test called the COGATI and found it utter BS. Not only did it say I should identify as a feminine leaning male, it said so because of things like the amount of friends you have, whether you can park a car (I don't happen to be the best driver out there, but I am exceptionally good at parking,) my love of sports and aviation, and other things just so completely irrelevant to gender that I completely dimsiss the test, as have many.
What a waste of time answering 300 questions.
Hey, you've reached Lauren's signature! If you have any questions, want to talk, or just need a shoulder to cry on, leave me a message, and I'll get back to you.
*beep*

Full time: 12/12/13
Started hormones: 26/3/14
FFS: No clue, winter/spring 2014/15 maybe?
SRS: winter/spring 2014/15?
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Natalia

Quote from: Jen on January 13, 2014, 02:10:43 PM
I would take it just cause I think it would make it easier to explain things to people when it is necessary, or at least give me a new way ti do so, if it came back positive.  If it came back negative it wouldn't change anything or make me feel any less female or make me detransition or anything.

Exactly. While testing cannot change which gender we identify or change anything, sometimes it can confirm that what we are doing is legitimate, that we have strong traits of the opposite gender...and it can help explaining to our families too...I mean, they don't know how do we feel, so the results of a test can be a big help. I am considering showing my mom the results of my COGIATI test when I come out (240, possible transexual, but I know I am transexual, I know I should be female and no test will change that)...but it might help her understanding my choices.
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Adam (birkin)

Well, assuming such a test could exist, I don't think I'd take it. I'm happier as I am now.
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Jenna Stannis

Quote from: Willow on January 13, 2014, 02:18:53 PM
I remember taking one test called the COGATI and found it utter BS. Not only did it say I should identify as a feminine leaning male, it said so because of things like the amount of friends you have, whether you can park a car (I don't happen to be the best driver out there, but I am exceptionally good at parking,) my love of sports and aviation, and other things just so completely irrelevant to gender that I completely dimsiss the test, as have many.
What a waste of time answering 300 questions.


I also took that test, with my results saying that I'm transsexual. The test's architects were obviously a very caring bunch, as they also issued a warning about future decisions concerning my gender. Well, maybe I am transsexual. Maybe I would transition fully if I lived in a social vacuum. But I don't so I probably won't, which goes to show that there are many factors involved.
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Jenna Stannis

Something to consider is that the test would be taken predominantly by people who identify as trans*. I wonder what the significance of this would be, with regard to, say, the percentage of people who are in fact confirmed to have some gender incongruence?

Given the plasticity of the brain and the immediacy in which changes can occur ("Adult Brain Can Change In Seconds" http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/blindspot-0714.html), perhaps self-identification (of any aspect of personality) is enough to initiate changes to the brain. This approach might explain why our gender is often so hard for some of us to pin down. Speaking for myself, I often feel an incredibly strong urge to present as female and even seriously consider transition and going fulltime. But after a period of time (which I should probably measure), I slip back into being male and stay there comfortably until the next gender shift.

That said, I always think back to when I was seven and consider what influences may have led me to start cross-dressing and perceiving myself as female, while I simultaneously lived as a male child in every other respect.
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Jenna Stannis

Quote from: FA on January 13, 2014, 01:56:01 PM
I voted 'No, I don't need a test to tell me my gender'.
I might have been all over such a test early on, but now after transitioning it's a moot point that really doesn't matter.

Yep, that's fair enough. However, your explanation raises another big issue regarding GRS satisfaction. Do you think that there are some people who have transitioned who report that they're happy because, as you say, there's no going back (not easily, anyway)? I know this is quite a sensitive and contentious issue, but in the long run I think these kinds of conversations do actually help some people (like me, for example).

QuoteI expect a physical test would show many people who transitioned as typical specimens of their birth sex... I mean if a man just decided he identified more with women and wanted to live as one, would that be such a terrible thing?

I agree that making this choice is absolutely fine and that nobody should have to seek anyone's approval to live this way. Then again, using the word choice even in this instance feels a bit jarring. I know this is all hypothetical, but would it really be possible for a man to want to live as a woman even though they didn't test as trans*? Assuming that dualism is a dead concept, as we should, where is his motivation to live as a woman coming from? Why has he always identified with women more than men? It strikes me as odd that this female persona could have arisen from nothing, having no foundation in brain physiology, but has rather been raised up by her own bootstraps.

Sorry, got a little carried away there. I felt like I was writing about myself.

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Jenna Stannis

Quote from: Jamie D on January 13, 2014, 01:07:39 PM
Thank you Jenna.  Emil Faber once said, "Knowledge is good."

You're welcome :)
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peky

Quote from: Jamie D on January 13, 2014, 01:07:39 PM
Thank you Jenna.  Emil Faber once said, "Knowledge is good."

"Knowledge is Power" Sir Francis Bacon
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peky

all those psychology tests are like tarot cards, or palm readers, horoscopes, etc., very entertaining indeed
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Jill F

I think the best gender test is this question:

Do you feel male, female, neither, a mixture or the two or sometimes one or the other?

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Nero

Quote from: JS on January 13, 2014, 07:03:33 PM
Quote from: FA on January 13, 2014, 01:56:01 PM
I voted 'No, I don't need a test to tell me my gender'.
I might have been all over such a test early on, but now after transitioning it's a moot point that really doesn't matter.

Yep, that's fair enough. However, your explanation raises another big issue regarding GRS satisfaction. Do you think that there are some people who have transitioned who report that they're happy because, as you say, there's no going back (not easily, anyway)? I know this is quite a sensitive and contentious issue, but in the long run I think these kinds of conversations do actually help some people (like me, for example).

Maybe. I mean, even if I wanted to go back, it's not really an option. I mean, it's not like I would ever be a decent looking woman again. No tits, facial hair, etc. If I was going to stay a woman, I would have kept what I had (which was pretty good). That's obviously not why I'm staying male. But there is a certain finality to it. It'd be hard to go back and I wouldn't have the life I once did.  I'm happy with my transition and my new body and all (I didn't have genital surgery though). But the grass is always greener. Sometimes I miss certain aspects of life as a female. I wouldn't call it regret. Just that it's not a Disney movie. This isn't Cinderella or Snow White and I'm no Prince Charming and this isn't happily ever after. It's just life. And it's really no better as male or female. I mean, sure the dysphoria is gone. But when all is said and done, you're still you with all your same problems.

I think this is a good song for this feeling:



Quote from: JS on January 13, 2014, 07:03:33 PM

QuoteI expect a physical test would show many people who transitioned as typical specimens of their birth sex... I mean if a man just decided he identified more with women and wanted to live as one, would that be such a terrible thing?

I agree that making this choice is absolutely fine and that nobody should have to seek anyone's approval to live this way. Then again, using the word choice even in this instance feels a bit jarring. I know this is all hypothetical, but would it really be possible for a man to want to live as a woman even though they didn't test as trans*? Assuming that dualism is a dead concept, as we should, where is his motivation to live as a woman coming from? Why has he always identified with women more than men? It strikes me as odd that this female persona could have arisen from nothing, having no foundation in brain physiology, but has rather been raised up by her own bootstraps.

Sorry, got a little carried away there. I felt like I was writing about myself.



Good question. You know, when I first came out as trans I very much believed this was a physical, absolute thing - like we really are literally male brains in female bodies and vice versa. Now I'm not so convinced. I know that for political purposes and all we need to keep up the status quo - that we have no choice, we're born this way, etc. And I understand the motivation behind it. But I'm starting to believe this is a journey some of us choose and not some cosmic mistake. I was meant to do this. I was meant to transition. But I no longer believe I corrected some accident of birth. I was born to go through this.

I think this is quite possible, as unpopular as the idea is:

QuoteIt strikes me as odd that this female persona could have arisen from nothing, having no foundation in brain physiology, but has rather been raised up by her own bootstraps.

I mean, why not? I was talking with someone about how the female role naturally suits some and not others. And that it is probably those for whom it doesn't suit that notice it the most and speak out most against it. Some cis women revel in femininity and are just feminine to the core. Sure they don't appreciate the sexism, but even with all that they'd much rather live as women. They're just more suited to it. It fits their personality. Maybe there are men like this too. I think it's quite possible. Say there's a little boy who just identifies much more with his mother, grandmother, and other female relatives and all things female. Because of the rigid way males are raised, he quickly learns that the kind of things he likes are reserved for females. He's a boy, so he can't stay with his grandmother in the kitchen and cook. No, he's got to go hunting with grandfather. He loves pretty things, but he's not allowed near them. Maybe his imagination conjures a female persona who gets to do all these things.

Now, this is just me thinking out loud and I realize these ideas are politically problematic. But I'm just really not sure someone has to have some kind of special brain wiring to prefer life as one gender or the other. I mean the world is divided into halves - male and female. And it's quite rigid. Cis men and women don't even fit squarely into these roles. I wouldn't be at all surprised that some people would simply prefer one life over another.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Marieee

Willow your so right about that test, I've taken a few times(why IDK), but the questions are so stereotypical male or stereotypical female directed.
It's just like you said, utter BS.
~How we endure will justify, the history we leave behind.~
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Jenna Stannis

Hm, where did FA's last post go?
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Nero

Quote from: JS on January 14, 2014, 02:52:44 PM
Hm, where did FA's last post go?

I thought maybe I'd said too much...  :laugh:
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Jenna Stannis

Quote from: FA on January 14, 2014, 02:59:25 PM
I thought maybe I'd said too much...  :laugh:


lol... no, your thoughts are interesting.
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