Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on January 04, 2014, 04:44:21 AM
My mom is in the hospital, and if she needs to see a nurse and it involves a degree of undress, mom is going to feel awkward undressing in front of her 'son'. That is unlikely to change, and it tends to really slam home the truth of why so many of us refuse to avoid the operation.

You know what? As a non-op, I'm getting very tired of the little veiled snipes of the pre-ops and post-ops about non-ops. I'm non-op for medical reasons, I don't have a choice. You are as bad as those cisgendered people who harass me for being trans.

I have an opinion about those that are so adamantly  pro-SRS, it's not completely polite, so I keep it to myself - perhaps that something that some others around here could practice.

Quote from: kelly_aus on January 04, 2014, 03:40:01 PM
You know what? As a non-op, I'm getting very tired of the little veiled snipes of the pre-ops and post-ops about non-ops. I'm non-op for medical reasons, I don't have a choice. You are as bad as those cisgendered people who harass me for being trans.

I have an opinion about those that are so adamantly  pro-SRS, it's not completely polite, so I keep it to myself - perhaps that something that some others around here could practice.

Oh I can assure you, I am MORE than tired of reading replies to my comments and inventing context that isn't there. Thin veiled snipe? only in your imagination. How is MY discomfort with having a penis YOUR problem? If you like your body, great, I couldn't care less what is attached to it if you don't have a problem with it. I do have a problem with you telling me what I can and can't say about MY life.

I live for the day I can strip naked, and look like a naked female even if still one that has to shave altogether too much body hair thanks to being unable to afford laser hair removal any time soon. The day I was told OHIP would cover the operation, was probably the day I thought I had a chance of ever feeling happy about myself.

I suggest you work harder on your acceptance of yourself, if my talking about MY life makes yours uncomfortable.

Don't wait for me to stop talking about how much I look forward to having a vagina.

Okay, this topic is about names and family. Let's try to leave surgery out of it.

Lesley, it's awesome that you have found out you can have surgery. I'm truly very happy for you. But not everyone is so lucky, so try to be sensitive in not harping on all the drawbacks (from your perspective; I don't think it's quite as big a deal as you're thinking) of not being post-op. There's been some sniping on non-ops lately, so go a little easy on Kelly. It's possible she interpreted your post as more of the same even if that was not the intention.

Ok, back to names.

Sometimes my dad uses my old name and pronouns but he also still loves and accepts me. And that's all I care about. If I asked him to use the correct ones, I'm sure he probably would. But it's really not much of an issue. And I think it may be kind of comforting to him that I didn't demand he change how he addresses me. He already has to deal with my having a big red beard like he used to have (all white now). 
Names and pronouns aren't such a big issue to me. The only time I mind the wrong ones is when I suspect they're being used as a slight (which my dad would never do). But I only see him a couple times a year, so it might be a bigger deal if we were out in public a lot or something.

My mom has completely switched over to seeing me as her son (even when talking about me to others when I'm not present) and names and pronouns came more or less naturally. But she has had a lot more time to adjust than my dad. It also helps that I look unequivocally male now (though I realize not everyone has that privilege). 

On the SRS front, it's okay to be pre-op, non-op, and post-op.  Some of us want it, others don't and some had it.  There really is no issue either way, so lets not let it divide us and become a debate.

In any case, I have no problems with family members who slip on pronouns.  That's bound to happen and it's part of the learning experience.  However, I have a major issue with families that refuse to recognize our identities and belittle us by refusing to acknowledge who we are.  I've really asked my family to be considerate of my feelings and every chance they ignore my requests.  To be fair, I haven't pushed it in a big way, but that's mainly because it will lead to a fight where I have to be told what a bad person I am for this.  I wish I could be like others here and not get bothered by it, but it does.  It just feels like a huge denial from those that are supposed to be the most important people in your life.
 

pre-transition or post-transition, family or the general population, i won't be happy to hear myself referred to with names or pronouns that make me dysphoric. even if it's female i won't mind my family using it if it's not one of those triggering names. for instance i don't mind being called 'sister' but i hate being called 'daughter' and its dearly equivalents in our language. in short i wouldnt let them call me by any female pronoun other than sister. im already trying to stop them. i don't mind my first name and the nicknames formed out of it, since the name is quite unisex and i'm going to keep the name. but i can't and won't stand being called by my middle name and its nicknames. so that's it about me, i don't care what my family calls me unless it triggers my dysphoria.

"But not everyone is so lucky, so try to be sensitive in not harping on all the drawbacks (from your perspective; I don't think it's quite as big a deal as you're thinking) of not being post-op."

How about she learns that a non snipe was just that, a non snipe.

She can't get the op, I sympathize, really I do, but the second she attacks me for being happy I can get something that I sure thought was a pipe dream before hearing OHIP covers it means, I was originally as far away from getting it as she will ever be. It's not all roses being disabled here.

She wants my compassion, she could go along way by making me have any for her. I'm not a limitless fountain of compassion just because she shares being TG with me.

Yes the topic is about family and it's about names, and the only reason my name is an issue, is because it is no longer a MALE name, and guess what, that is not conveniently divorced from the entire TG topic. If you can't see that FA, then you are not up to the challenge of your position here. No I don't care if you did not like my saying that in the clear. I am all out of warm fuzzies.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on January 05, 2014, 03:33:31 PM
"But not everyone is so lucky, so try to be sensitive in not harping on all the drawbacks (from your perspective; I don't think it's quite as big a deal as you're thinking) of not being post-op."

How about she learns that a non snipe was just that, a non snipe.

She can't get the op, I sympathize, really I do, but the second she attacks me for being happy I can get something that I sure thought was a pipe dream before hearing OHIP covers it means, I was originally as far away from getting it as she will ever be. It's not all roses being disabled here.

She wants my compassion, she could go along way by making me have any for her. I'm not a limitless fountain of compassion just because she shares being TG with me.

Yes the topic is about family and it's about names, and the only reason my name is an issue, is because it is no longer a MALE name, and guess what, that is not conveniently divorced from the entire TG topic. If you can't see that FA, then you are not up to the challenge of your position here. No I don't care if you did not like my saying that in the clear. I am all out of warm fuzzies.

Oh really? I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I've given you way more than your share of chances here. You want to be a jerk, well that's not how a support site works. And there's no reason for you to get all smug because your country/insurance/whatever is going to pay for your SRS.

You can take your 'friendly bucket of cold water' and wash your rude, nasty ass mouth with it. I've already saved you from banning several times. You're done here.

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic.

I am 50+ MTF with a wife, 5 children, 5 grandchildren, 4 siblings and parents thankfully still living.

I am so grateful for the fact that everyone in my family supports me.  As long as their intent is loving, I try not to judge or to correct their slips.   My 80-something parents slip up all the time.  But I know that they love and accept me deeply.  When they make mistakes and then correct themselves, I try to remind myself that it is like a double-embrace - of the me they knew and loved and of the me they are coming to know. Viewed that way, it is kind of wonderful.

My children get a free pass.  They can have all the time they want to work this out.  And I am learning a lot by allowing them to do this.  For example, one of them pointed out that some gay couples establish "mommy" and a "daddy" roles within the family.  For them, "mommy" and "daddy" aren't defined by one's sex.  So she feels no issues thinking of me as the woman who fathered her.  It took me a while to wrap my head around that one, but she's right.  There is nothing to prevent us from ungendering "father" if we want to. 

Yes, it depresses me when people get my name and pronouns wrong.  But, so long as their intent is good, I try to shift the focus from their mistake to my education.  Do I need to work on my voice more?  Am I signaling something I am unaware of?  Am I breaking out into old habits (like my old, boyish sense of humor)?  When we are with family, we all tend to revert to very old patterns. 

I try, too, to strike a bargain:  I will honor their past if they will honor my future.  Misgendering within the family isn't necessarily about gender.  For example, my children are all grown up.  And yet - in my mind - they are still my "little babies".  At some level, they will always be my "little babies".    I think that it is natural for parents to cling to such memories.  How could you not? 

That my parents and siblings cling to memories of me as a little boy isn't necessarily a rejection of my gender.   It is a wonderful part of their lives that they long to celebrate.  So I make it clear that they are welcome to keep old pictures of me and to repeat all the old family stories just as they used to.  I don't want to take those memories away from them.  But, in return, I ask that they embrace the woman in front of them and create some new memories that include her.

And they do.

And I need to respect that I have taken something away from them that they loved very deeply.

I agree with many here - as long as they are supporting me & loving me... I don't care.


+ my chosen name is very similar to my given name so hopefully they can easily transition with me.

Does it bother me? Yes.

Will I totally cut them off if they don't? So long as they're respectful with everything else, I'm willing to over look it, even if it does bother me.

My family still call me by my birth name. For my grandparents, Gramma has flat out said she doesn't understand but it doesn't matter. My Aunts and Uncle are getting there slowly. I am the oldest grandchild/cousin/nephew/niece in the family by a long shot and a lot of the younger kids see me as a sister/parent figure. my brothers call me 'sis' still (have their whole lives) and my cousins call me 'E', which was a childhood nickname. My childhood friend calls me by my birth name but also calls me her brother and introduces me as her "non-boyfriend boyfriend" or her homo life mate boyfriend.

I honestly don't care much about what people call me. For a lot of my family, they are (to put it gently) dumb country folks. They know a lot about life in the countryside of Kentucky, they know a lot about growing crops, raising horses, coal mining... And that's about it. But they do care for me, they accept me and that's all that really matters to me. If its easier on my grandmother to stick to calling me by my birth name or a nickname, that's fine. If my brothers call me 'sis' (or mom in a few cases) because they have called me that their whole lives, I'm cool with it. I didn't stop being that person to them, I just look and sound a little different now.

The only time I *really* care is from the family that is doing it be asses. My father calls me "baby girl", "Whitney-bell" (I have always hated my middle name...) and things like that. He is specifically doing it to stress my physical body as being the be all end all. That is the only time I care.

I won't take away my name from my family. They are the only ones that use it (spouse uses my chosen name). When my mother says my name, it's just because that has been what she calls me my entire life, and she's ill so she can't remember half the time what name I have now anyway. When my father or his sorry excuse of a wife say my name it's "oh look! She'a pretending to be a boy! How cuuuuute." Intent is what bothers me.

I haven't started hormones yet.. and I don't dress very often around my family (working on that one...)
So I don't care what my family calls me at the moment, however I'd prefer 'Sarah' once I've begun HRT/Full time..

My friends are amazingly supportive and they all started calling me Sarah the day I came out.

I asked my wife 15 days ago if she would ever use the proper pronoun or chosen name. She said no with no hesitation. She did not

even ask what my chosen name is. I really like the initials CJ for Cynthia Jaclyn xxxxxx. When I list under the   STAY   -   GO   heading

not even saying she would consider addressing me correctly is under the go. The reason is lack of respect, welcoming and

compassion.

:/

Sorry to hear that... Yeah nobody in my family uses my chosen name, nobody even asked.
I know I just said I didn't care if they used my name but..... if I hear my son this or that again I'm going to flip...
My Father at least calls me his child, which I'd prefer over son.. or the use of my middle name.. ugh.