While I was participating in biblical study, I came across Psalms 139:16 which talked about being formed in the womb by God.

Psalms 139:16 (KJV) : "Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."

I have to admit, this scripture actually threw me for a loop for concerning my transgender identity for about an hour as it made me think of those who would use that scripture to say "see, God made you a woman so you need to stay as a woman", or something along the lines of that.  It seems like convincing logic looking at that scripture.  However, I started to think about when Jesus healed the blind man, so I went back and searched the scriptures about that, and part of it stuck out to me.



John 9: 1-7 (KJV)

And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

The bolded part caught my attention.  It got me thinking, "well, if God allowed this man to be blind at birth so His works could be manifested in him, then is it possible for a me to be born transgender (because I view it as a birth defect) in order for God to do the same for me?", and not only me, but other transgender individuals, however He decides to manifest His works in them. 

The thought was quite shocking to me as I never really considered the possibility of this before.

So here are my questions to all believers here: What do you think?  Do you feel that God made you transgender for a purpose?  If so, what do you believe that purpose is?  If you do not believe that God made you transgender for a reason, how would you reconcile that with Psalms 139:16?

Heavy duty question Malachite! I'm not sure I have all the answers to this one, but what I do know about the narrative in Genesis, whether it is allegorically written or what, makes sense and gives us a definitive answer to all of the things that are wrong in the world. There was a point where mankind abdicated their relationship with the Creator and acquiesced to the will of a malevolent persona thus taking on some of that being's ego-centric personality. This we refer to as The Fall. From that point on personal failure aka sin and death became mankind's inherited lot. This being the case then we may assume that creation has been tampered with and perhaps the very fact that we are different from our assigned bodies speaks to the reality of that event. In which case the creator may have intended you to be a male child and I may have been intended to be a female child, but Satan's intervention may be much like that of the environmental contaminants that disrupt genetic DNA that causes inter-sex and mosaicism in the fetus among other things that may also affect the brain.

Without going back to one of my Bibles just at the minute.  The way I remember it continuing, was that the guy got kicked around by his church leaders and run out of town, so the guy went, found Jesus and the others, and joined with them, now able to see and work with them and for them. Pretty good purpose for his life I think.

Whoever and whatever I was created, it was to love and serve God / Jesus in this life, and to be with them in joy and glory in the next part of life.  We are examples of Resurrection in having died to what the World had declared us to be and coming to the life born into us now able to see with eyes opened to the Truth of our being alive.  Giving up lives bestowed on us by other humans and coming to the life created in us by God.  When we see our new life for what it is and does by making us aware of God's presence in our core, we can better describe it than people not given our needs for life.  All have life born in them, and even for them, the World mold them and creates an image for them.  It may well be harder for them to see the need for death to the World, and personal need for re-birth in their creator than it is for us.  We get to give them a hand. 

awful lot of children born physically malformed means there is just as many likely to be born with malformed gender identits.  that Keith Ablow guy isn't bright enough to understand that.

Quote from: Shantel on January 16, 2014, 12:43:50 PM
Heavy duty question Malachite! I'm not sure I have all the answers to this one, but what I do know about the narrative in Genesis, whether it is allegorically written or what, makes sense and gives us a definitive answer to all of the things that are wrong in the world. There was a point where mankind abdicated their relationship with the Creator and acquiesced to the will of a malevolent persona thus taking on some of that being's ego-centric personality. This we refer to as The Fall. From that point on personal failure aka sin and death became mankind's inherited lot. This being the case then we may assume that creation has been tampered with and perhaps the very fact that we are different from our assigned bodies speaks to the reality of that event. In which case the creator may have intended you to be a male child and I may have been intended to be a female child, but Satan's intervention may be much like that of the environmental contaminants that disrupt genetic DNA that causes inter-sex and mosaicism in the fetus among other things that may also affect the brain.

You make a lot of great points, Shan!  I have also thought about the possibility of how I was originally supposed to be a biological male, but because of the sin in the world, I just happen to get a female body with a male mind instead. However, I do believe that what the enemy has intended for evil, God can use for good.

Quote from: Vicky on January 16, 2014, 11:49:19 PM
Without going back to one of my Bibles just at the minute.  The way I remember it continuing, was that the guy got kicked around by his church leaders and run out of town, so the guy went, found Jesus and the others, and joined with them, now able to see and work with them and for them. Pretty good purpose for his life I think.

Whoever and whatever I was created, it was to love and serve God / Jesus in this life, and to be with them in joy and glory in the next part of life.  We are examples of Resurrection in having died to what the World had declared us to be and coming to the life born into us now able to see with eyes opened to the Truth of our being alive.  Giving up lives bestowed on us by other humans and coming to the life created in us by God.  When we see our new life for what it is and does by making us aware of God's presence in our core, we can better describe it than people not given our needs for life.  All have life born in them, and even for them, the World mold them and creates an image for them.  It may well be harder for them to see the need for death to the World, and personal need for re-birth in their creator than it is for us.  We get to give them a hand.

That's a good way of looking at it and it makes me think of Galatians 3:28 where there's neither male or female since we are all one in Christ Jesus

Quote from: Malachite on January 16, 2014, 12:18:47 PM
Psalms 139:16 (KJV) : "Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."

<snip>

So here are my questions to all believers here: What do you think?  Do you feel that God made you transgender for a purpose?  If so, what do you believe that purpose is?  If you do not believe that God made you transgender for a reason, how would you reconcile that with Psalms 139:16?

Here's that same passage from Psalms in the New Revised Standard Version: "Your eyes beheld my unformed substance. In your book were written all the days that were formed for me when none of them as yet existed."

So if I take the KJV or the NRSV I come to the same conclusion: I am as GOD made me, and GOD made me trans. What purpose could that be? I don't believe in theodicy, so I reject the idea that being trans (and queer) is a test of my faith. It certainly has been a test, but I don't think that GOD is testing me. It's more like I am testing me.

If there is a purpose to me being trans, it would be for me to learn to live the Gifts of Advent (Hope, Peace, Joy, and Love) all year round. I would not have come to that realization if it weren't for all the growth and healing I experienced last year. And all of that growth and healing were direct results of my transition.

Quote from: Constance on January 17, 2014, 11:55:57 AM
Here's that same passage from Psalms in the New Revised Standard Version: "Your eyes beheld my unformed substance. In your book were written all the days that were formed for me when none of them as yet existed."

So if I take the KJV or the NRSV I come to the same conclusion: I am as GOD made me, and GOD made me trans. What purpose could that be? I don't believe in theodicy, so I reject the idea that being trans (and queer) is a test of my faith. It certainly has been a test, but I don't think that GOD is testing me. It's more like I am testing me.

If there is a purpose to me being trans, it would be for me to learn to live the Gifts of Advent (Hope, Peace, Joy, and Love) all year round. I would not have come to that realization if it weren't for all the growth and healing I experienced last year. And all of that growth and healing were direct results of my transition.

Theodicy is an attempt to undermine and gut the understanding of the problem of mankind's initial failure and God's response and answer through Jesus's death and resurrection, making any further belief just watered down religion! There is room for anyone who wishes to interpret things differently but the bottom line is a personal relationship with Christ that is based on a full understanding and acceptance of the Creator's intent and an acknowledgment that we have indeed failed perfection though not initially of our own volition.

I really hate the idea that God gives diseases or causes evil to happen.  It is so against His nature, as shown in Scripture. 

It would be like me beating my kids to teach them patience.  Too many Christians have that kind of cruel God in mind.  They barely understand His acceptance for themselves...so it's no wonder they can't accept and love others who are different.

I could answer all those questions and more, but I can't type my thoughts well or long. Over a phone call or in person is another matter.

Quote from: katiej on January 18, 2014, 12:04:28 AM
I really hate the idea that God gives diseases or causes evil to happen.  It is so against His nature, as shown in Scripture. 

It would be like me beating my kids to teach them patience.  Too many Christians have that kind of cruel God in mind.  They barely understand His acceptance for themselves...so it's no wonder they can't accept and love others who are different.

No I think that you misunderstand the entire picture, God has allowed humankind to have free will which includes allowing us to screw up and reap the harvest of our own bad decisions and those of the original human beings. So we are presented with choices in life none are ever perfect because behind choices lies motive which is always tainted, so we are faced with the choice of living a miserable life in a gender that disagrees with our brain or to make the appropriate changes and live a happier existence. God's not as concerned about externalities but is only really concerned about what kind of person we are in our hearts.

To expand on the motive of the human heart: We often see great endowments made by wealthy people and we are amazed by their generosity, we see all kinds of acts of random kindness and say how wonderful! Yet behind every act there is motive and there also lurks ulterior motives that are never as pure. A wealthy man may give millions upon millions to cure AIDs in Africa, he may feel that it's a hopeless situation and has sorrow for the thousands that die from it each year, his outward motive is wonderful, but then there are the ulterior motives, it is a charitable tax write off and he gets international recognition and applause as a wonderful human being, furthermore it brings more favorable international exposure to his product line. The point is that everything we do is couched in selfish motivation. This man's decision is better than investing his money in a research program to create new and better ways to wipe out indigenous populations of third world nations riddled with AIDS and all being viewed by other nations as useless consumers. There you have good, albeit tainted versus pure evil that men do.

That's a lot to take in concerning theodicy!  While I can't say that I fully understand the concept, I do like the idea of being trans in order to spread the Gifts of Advent.

Quote from: katiej on January 18, 2014, 12:04:28 AM
I really hate the idea that God gives diseases or causes evil to happen.  It is so against His nature, as shown in Scripture. 

It would be like me beating my kids to teach them patience.  Too many Christians have that kind of cruel God in mind.  They barely understand His acceptance for themselves...so it's no wonder they can't accept and love others who are different.

Nooooo!  The devil causes sickness God heals. I had a lazy eye out of this world when I was younger thoes things come from the devil. But know you can't even tell because I never had treatment for it, my mom prayed and it went away. I really don't think you understand.

I think its a test of my faith. All I have to do is stay in God

Malachite,

Stop and think about reproduction and such before and after Adam and Eve's transgression.

Before the fall Adam was formed from the dust of the ground perfect and in communion with God. The Lord God took one of his ribs and made a help meet for him and Adam called her Eve.

This perfect state of communion with God was a type and shadow or allegory of Jesus Christ and his church which he stated and Paul explained in Ephesians 5: 31,32 whereby through Christ we as Christians might be forgiven and made whole in the eyes of God. He would be our betrothed and we the church would be his bride after passing the judgment seat. He is returning for two wives per se, the Jew and Gentile church.

We see that Eve was made from a rib of Adam and through an allegory we see a type and shadow of how Jesus gave his life and created his bride (Eve) when the Roman soldier thrust a spear into his side. Just as Eve was created from the rib bone, in like manner in a spiritual sense we as his bride would be created when blood and water came forth. The blood signifying the life of the flesh and water the word and Spirit.

After the fall per se things changed and Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden and could no longer enter it. Childbirth was no longer as Adam and Eve were created perfect but sinful and and with infirmities because it was no longer "God making " people but the body reproducing as it was designed to do. That is why the "God made me" this or thus is not scripturally sound and we must repent when the Lord reveals his Son unto us. Because we are as David said shapen in iniquity and in sin our mothers conceived us.

Some might ask how we can be born in sin since we know neither right or wrong as babes but just eat, breathe, pee and poop.

To answer this we must remember that Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.

When Adam and Eve were created they were created knowing God. They communed with him.

When we are born we do not know God. As babes we have to learn from our parents. We do not come out of the womb knowing or believing God. We are carnal through reproduction instead of creation and therefor born in a sinful state.

Because we are born in a fallen sinful state we are born naturally subject to infirmity, affliction as well as the temptations and afflictions and infirmities the devil puts on us. Our natural state is subject to vanity and the devil also adds this unto us to keep us from believing the truth through confusion. He twists things to where every church preaches a different gospel and even doctors can not agree on a diagnosis many times.

Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me. He didn't say "ways" or "truths" or "lives" but singular. One Lord , one faith, one baptism, one God and Father who is above all (including Christ), through all and in you all. Since this was written unto the church it applies only to those who are a part of the church Jude described being the faith once handed down unto the saints whom John called the "elect lady" or chosen of God.

The purpose for being transgender. This could be a number of things having been birthed in a fallen state. The main thing is that you seek and love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength and all your mind and love your neighbor as your self. That you seek the Lord above all else whether his doctrine be easy or step on your toes per se. As written, unto the hungry soul every bitter herb is sweet.

I hope this helps clear the issue of he fall up a little for some.

May God bless.

I like Del's comments although the part about a rib is a bit assumed by many theologians but not entirely accurate. The scriptures indicate that God put Adam in a deep sleep and from his side He brought forth Eve. This would make a lot of sense and not be seen as ludicrous as a woman being made out of a rib bone and adds credence as to why born males have both an X & Y chromosome. God literally drew the female forth from Adam and it may just be that Adam in his original form was both male and female as the scriptures say that he was created perfect and in the image of God. We talk about whether God would be male or female, well in that you have a plausible answer.

Shantel,

Now look at this a little farther.

We know all prophecy is about Christ as it is written in Revelation the Spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus.

Using the rib bone fulfills the prophecies such as David saying ye are flash of my flesh and bone of my bone, ye are my brethren. The man leaving father and mother to cleave unto his wife that they being two might be one flesh. Or Christ in our hearts by faith or as Jeremiah prophesied a woman shall compass a man. We the woman or bride have Christ in us.

We also know scripture calls those dead in sins and unbelieving "dead while those who believe and put off the tabernacle as Peter put it are "asleep."

The Lord God caused a deep sleep to come upon Adam. Not dead in sins but putting off the tabernacle. The spiritual death came when he partook of the forbidden fruit.

In like manner the Lord God caused a "deep sleep" to come upon Jesus after he said "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." He passed from life unto life without dying. He slept. God caused it as it was God's word that commanded he die for our sins and Jesus even said "My Father hath given me a commandment." That commandment was that he would lay down his life and take it up again.

While he tasted death for every man he passed from life unto life. The body dead but the spirit remaining alive. Not the spiritual death of those whom do not believe or trample underfoot the blood of Christ and turn back to willful sin and abomination.

I hope this clarifies what I was saying a bit more.

May God bless.

Yes, the purpose is to further piss off my mom.

I appreciate your well thought-out replies, Del, and I do agree that purpose or not, the most important thing is to seek God first in everything.  That's first and foremost.

I love psalm 139 and also Jesus's comments on Eunichs. 

I believe when God knit me together in the womb He fully intended me to be born transexual.  Part of His plan for total dependence on Him.  I was also born alcoholic and am 28 years sober, for the same reason, to help others and be dependent on Him.

My mother took DES.  Although controversial I  believe it transitioned me in the first trimester.  Since that could not have happened outside God's will, I am who He intended me to be.

I also do not see anything having to do with our DNA as being deformity.  And Adam had to carry both gene sets so Eve could be made out of his rib.

Thank you for pointing that out as it is very rare for many to read and put together the word as a whole.many times we are born a certain way or deal with certain things,so that his work can be done through us.I used to not understand why I was born with a mental defect (disability) and in such a horid way but as I grew older,I said to myself 'i lack understanding when it comes to the world but my emotions and spirital understanding is amazing' and it was for that exact purpose.the same goes for my gender (I believe) my purpose in my birth body,was to gain a wisdom that very few ever gain.it allows me to reach both spectrums with wisdom.I know birth but also loss,love but also a firm hand.God is taking me around the world and the wisdom gained,will make me a great man and for his glory.This is the only purpose I need.also I like to see myself as blessed in regards to heavenly beings.angels are male and female,being both in order to give ANYTHING that's needed.an ebrace or to be stern,to be a rock or a breast and in knowing this,I will be everything and anything a person needs and with the experiences and wisdom,to help them find their way.