Young people today deserve more credit for being able to make informed decisions.

LOL! 

She's adorable, I want to adopt her!

Quote from: Nikko on January 16, 2014, 02:43:11 PM
LOL! 

She's adorable, I want to adopt her!

Too bad I already beat you to it and I'm writing her into my will! 

  Julie is so good ,I recommend taking the time to watch it.

Only one flaw. Well two. First, making it affordable for all does mean all have to participate. Deciding old people don't get care because they need it more and have little funds is wrong. Consider if she goes bankrupt the day before her health takes a nasty turn. Then no young people agree to join in and pay for her old person health.

It would take a bit to define this better, but the risk pool thing matters, so does coverage. These are details that do need to be figured out. I hated policies that would cover maternity care but no form of birth control. She hates having all forms of birth control covered. There is middle ground.

Quote from: LordKAT on January 17, 2014, 01:17:04 AM
Only one flaw. Well two. First, making it affordable for all does mean all have to participate. Deciding old people don't get care because they need it more and have little funds is wrong. Consider if she goes bankrupt the day before her health takes a nasty turn. Then no young people agree to join in and pay for her old person health.

It would take a bit to define this better, but the risk pool thing matters, so does coverage. These are details that do need to be figured out. I hated policies that would cover maternity care but no form of birth control. She hates having all forms of birth control covered. There is middle ground.

It will probably come down to that! I still prefer to be able to get a policy tailored to my personal needs, what would I at seventy years old need birth control and maternity coverages for? It isn't going to fly under any circumstances and is so flawed on so many levels. Young healthy productive people aren't going to buy into it, youth just never considers getting sick or old or of dying. As it stands they would prefer people like that to just die. I was watching one of those "Man on the street" interviews of young adults and was surprised at the number who were in favor of euthanasia for old people and those who were chronically ill rather than paying to support them. I'm getting the feeling that those like myself and the entire boomer generation will be considered a financial drain on society in spite of having lived productive lives and when the younger generation is forced by repressive government action through ObamaCare into paying the freight to carry all that dead weight on their backs, their resentment will be high and we will be regarded as financial deadbeats and useless eaters and Sarah Palen's seemingly ridiculous predictions of a "Death Panel" will no longer be such a joke. (Next we give you Soilent green!) 

Quote from: Shantel on January 17, 2014, 08:37:09 AM
I was watching one of those "Man on the street" interviews of young adults and was surprised at the number who were in favor of euthanasia for old people and those who were chronically ill rather than paying to support them.

Even though this post is several days old, I just saw this thread and I just wanted to speak about that point in particular. I am always amazed at the utter stupidity of that mentality. Even when I was in my late teens/early 20s, I thought these attitudes were dumb as hell. Unless you get snuffed out at an early age, chances are you (you being that age group) will get old one day. Would you want to be 70 or 80 years old, laying in a hospital bed and some young punk thinks that it is just peachy keen if you are put to death to "save money" or whatever screwed up logic they can think of in their moronic damn heads?

Hell no, you wouldn't.

It's a classic case of the "me" mentality mixed with sub-par I.Q's.

social security also depends on young working people to work. I don't see it as a bad thing necessarily. They will get old and die. I would love to come back and say sorry, you wouldn't pay when young so you pay through the nose now or the youngsters let you die.

Quote from: LordKAT on January 26, 2014, 06:09:34 PM
social security also depends on young working people to work. I don't see it as a bad thing necessarily. They will get old and die. I would love to come back and say sorry, you wouldn't pay when young so you pay through the nose now or the youngsters let you die.

Sure until you start compiling the list of crap that's on the back of the young:

16T in debt.
Exponentially rising tuition costs.
Increased Medicare/Medicaid Costs
ObamaCare
Social Security
Increasing taxes

This is generational theft at it's finest.  Not only are we making it more difficult for young people to enter the workforce, but when we do, we are taxing the crap out of them.  In no way is this moral or proper policy.

Some estimates have the average person at 25 losing 30-40% of the their entire earnings consumed by taxes of some sort.  That means, if you start a job jan 1st, you aren't making any money for yourself until May.  That is redonkulous.

It's one thing to help people and its a whole different thing to lose roughly half of your earnings to help people who didn't plan for their own future.  So, how about this, let me plan for my future so I don't have to steal from my kids or grandkids.

Sorry your life sucks, you only had your entire life to figure it out.

-AM

Quote from: Androgynous_Machine on February 10, 2014, 04:43:55 PM
Sure until you start compiling the list of crap that's on the back of the young:

16T in debt.
Exponentially rising tuition costs.
Increased Medicare/Medicaid Costs
ObamaCare
Social Security
Increasing taxes

  That is redonkulous. 

Quote from: Androgynous_Machine on February 10, 2014, 04:43:55 PM
Sorry your life sucks, you only had your entire life to figure it out.
-AM

LordKat, myself and many others don't deserve any undue BS, we have all paid our dues. Unfortunately the economy is in the tank, some can't find work, some wouldn't work if they could and the administration is abysmally feckless in terms of doing the right things to change the direction this Titanic we're on is headed. It is indeed stressful for everyone!

Quote from: LordKAT on January 26, 2014, 06:09:34 PM
social security also depends on young working people to work. I don't see it as a bad thing necessarily. They will get old and die. I would love to come back and say sorry, you wouldn't pay when young so you pay through the nose now or the youngsters let you die.

It's a bad thing. It's what happens when government runs things. I design these systems for a living, the government should be sued for everything it owns. I want Utah!

The concept of a cohort is crucial to retirement benefits, along with mortality, etc., etc. Each cohort's retirement savings have been raided by greedy-ass-low-life-not-worthy-of-life politicians. Sorry, it's a fact. The funds for each age group of participants (ie, all of America) should've been invested in safe low yield funds and paid out as needed for each retiree as needed. Social security is a form of insurance. Retiree's should get much more out than they pay in because many participants have passed on, but had they not, they would've been secure in their retirement. This makes me so angry. Ignorance is bliss, I wish I didn't know what is being done to everyone, it's pure evil.

Because it's been mismanaged, young people have to now pay in a lot more than they'll ever get back. They'll likely get back nothing. If you're 40 or younger, you'll likely get nothing. I'm so sorry to inform you all of this. But knowledge is power.

First step: Stop voting for people who are screwing you!

Quote from: Shantel on February 10, 2014, 06:23:35 PM
                  That is redonkulous. 

LordKat, myself and many others don't deserve any undue BS, we have all paid our dues. Unfortunately the economy is in the tank, some can't find work, some wouldn't work if they could and the administration is abysmally feckless in terms of doing the right things to change the direction this Titanic we're on is headed. It is indeed stressful for everyone!

That wasn't directed at Lordkat or any particular person, poorly worded on my part.

The "you" was an ambiguous person who is at retirement, didn't plan properly, and now I along with millions of other youth, are getting taxed to death for.

And now I just botched my nails. 

-AM

Quote from: Nikko on February 10, 2014, 06:52:03 PM

First step: Stop voting for people who are screwing you!

I'm part of a grassroots group here in MN trying to get members of the LGBTQ community here to quit voting for democrats that--in spite of significant lip service--are routinely voting to limit our god given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Bottom line is I could write a book on how Republicans and Democrats routinely screw over the young, the minority class, and the LGBTQ community.  It took me awhile to see the forest for the trees but once I did I went and changed my voter registration card as quick as I could and officially threw in with the Libertarian Party.  I became hyper-political in 2003 following the outbreak of the Iraq War and haven't looked back.

-AM

QuoteI'm part of a grassroots group here in MN trying to get members of the LGBTQ community here to quit voting for democrats that--in spite of significant lip service--are routinely voting to limit our god given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

The moderators are going to think I've created a second identity here at Susan's if you keep speaking sense like that! 

I am not sure if I would be considered young, but I am certainly not stupid and quite well informed. I wanted an NHS style system and yes, even with all the negatives and positives that entails. So there isn't anyone to vote for that represents my values on it, but Democrats are much closer to it than Republicans.

You're clearly not stupid, but whether one is informed depends on their sources of information and willingness to think beyond their belief system.

You seem more ideological driven, but I suspect your sources are limited on some level. Just my take.

Obama delayed obamacare, AGAIN, for the mid-size companies. Dang, I think Ted Cruz has it right... "Mr. President, if you like your healthcare law so much, why don't you implement it?". 

Problem with ideology. People like this don't try and fix things, they force things.

Quote from: Nikko on February 10, 2014, 07:59:14 PM
You're clearly not stupid, but whether one is informed depends on their sources of information and willingness to think beyond their belief system.

You seem more ideological driven, but I suspect your sources are limited on some level. Just my take.

Obama delayed obamacare, AGAIN, for the mid-size companies. Dang, I think Ted Cruz has it right... "Mr. President, if you like your healthcare law so much, why don't you implement it?". 

Problem with ideology. People like this don't try and fix things, they force things.

Extraconstitutional at best.  Impeachable at worst.

"... he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed ..."

Quote from: Nikko on February 10, 2014, 07:59:14 PM
You're clearly not stupid, but whether one is informed depends on their sources of information and willingness to think beyond their belief system.

You seem more ideological driven, but I suspect your sources are limited on some level. Just my take.

Obama delayed obamacare, AGAIN, for the mid-size companies. Dang, I think Ted Cruz has it right... "Mr. President, if you like your healthcare law so much, why don't you implement it?". 

Problem with ideology. People like this don't try and fix things, they force things.

I am guilty to being ideologically driven on some level, I doubt anyone who actually follows things intently doesn't have at least some ideology. As far as sources, well I get most of my actual news from the BBC, NPR, and Deutsche Welle. MSNBC and Fox are full of commentary which turns into sycophants cheering for their team. I have read Friedman, Hayek, etc as well as Keynes, Marx, Pribićević, etc so economically I am well familiar with arguments from both sides.

The thing is, in American politics, it doesn't matter where you stand or what you believe. You have two basic choices, except for rare occasions (Jesse Ventura) or when money can trump all (Bloomberg). This means no matter how well informed you are, or how well you understand things you only get to choose between two things. Right now that choice is between a healthcare law that stands the potential of insuring more people and is a massive transfer of wealth to private insurance companies from our tax dollars, which makes me unhappy; or the other choice let people fend for themselves as before or maybe institute some sort of healthcare voucher system (though IDK exactly how much support government funded vouchers would have, but some in the house like that).

When reduced to those two poor choices, it seems hard to even be ideological about it, for me I just consider what I feel will do the most harm and go against it. So more people insured even if it were to reduce the quality of healthcare for others and increase premiums is still less harmful to society as a whole than people dropping dead because they waited until they had to go to the ER to get healthcare.

Sorry for the verbose post, I just wanted to make clear my thought process supporting the healthcare law isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of it (or democratic politics) but I spent many years in a third party and I realized that in all practicality we don't have but the two choices the major parties want.

I planned for my retirement. Part of that plan was Social security. I haven't had much opportunity to save anything else. What I did have saved was taken by a bad marriage and medical  bills. I am not alone in that.

Quote from: LordKAT on February 11, 2014, 08:18:58 AM
I planned for my retirement. Part of that plan was Social security. I haven't had much opportunity to save anything else. What I did have saved was taken by a bad marriage and medical  bills. I am not alone in that.

I'm sorry to hear of your plight.

That said what is happening--wholesale I might add--is egregious taxation combined with high unemployment of young adults (ages 18-32) is perpetuating the problem of NOT saving for retirement because they are unable to do so because they are paying the bills of older generations.  Then you add in the mix that employers might cut hours to 29 hours to avoid expensive entanglements with ObamaCare.  So now young adults will essentially have to work two jobs, pay more taxes, pay more for benefits for older generations, and most of these programs aren't going to be solvent by the time Millennials retire (Some of them already aren't solvent; like Medicare/Medicaid).

Let's not forget the 16t dollar debt caused almost entirely by these entitlement programs that will come crashing down on our head.  But ignore the gross number for a minute, the real dangerous part about our debt is its ratio to GDP.  According to the Congressional Budget Office our debt is now at 73% of GDP and is on pace to worsen because of a slow to improve economy.  GDP has increased between 1-3% IIRC and just to keep up with population demand, growth has to be 5% or higher.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-debt-now-about-73-of-gdp-cbo-says-2013-09-17-1091240

QuoteWASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - The U.S. national debt is now about 73% of gross domestic product, the Congressional Budget Office said Tuesday. The percentage of debt is higher than any point since around World War II, and twice the percentage it was at the end of 2007, the nonpartisan agency said in its long-term budget outlook. If current laws stay in place, debt will decline "slightly" relative to GDP over the next few years, the agency said. But it warned that growing future deficits will push the debt to 100% of GDP 25 years from now.

By the time I reach retirement age, forget social security, I have legitimate cause to worry if there will be an economy at all.  It doesn't take an economist to understand that our current level of spending is utterly unsustainable.  I don't have children, and I never will, but those of you who do have children should really ask yourselves if that is the future you want your children and grandchildren to live in?

It isn't hard to see what the final outcome of this is; perpetual generational theft, perpetual generational dependence on government, and economic collapse.   

-AM