yea, your story is a lot more severe than mine possibly because I remained hidden for so long. I'm thankful I never had to endure the systems aversion therapy. I don't know If my parents thought about professional help or not. I did experience some aversion therapy on a very small scale with a couple of incidents, but nothing on the scale of others at that time period. I did experience the attitude of male is the way from psychiatrist when I sought help in college. Luckily times are changing and will continue to change for the better.  hearing these stories of the past treatment by the medical establishment in the 50',60 and 70's  It's been quite a surprise .I never knew that happened. I was my self a very severe case of a child with extreme dysphoria. I'm thankful my parents chose to let me be.

Quote from: KabitTarah on January 24, 2014, 07:16:00 AM
Yes. The therapist was less useful for my personal issues, though I can see how coming to terms with being trans might require one (I spent 20 years doing that on my own... then came OOTC).

What the therapist was helpful for was having someone to talk to who wasn't entirely against me... that didn't turn into a fight... but who knew I was trans. When I started seeing him, exactly three people knew (my wife and my parents).

Now it is less useful for that, but more useful for helping plan my means of reconnecting with people and helping my kids.

I guess I've been pretty lucky with psychiatrists , psychologists and social workers . I did have a bad psychologist once, he wasn't much help. For the most part though I've had some incredibly helpful therapists in the past and present. I've been through quite a lot of therapy. My first psychiatrist was at 20 years old while going to a state university. He basically saved me from dying of starvation. I was a severe anorexic . It looked like I had spent a lot of time in a Nazi concentration camp. I didn't talk about me being transgender at the time because I was dealing with severe addiction to LSD. I slowly started to open up about the transgender part to other psychologists . They were extremely important to me in excepting of my self. It took a long time for me to start to transition because I mistakenly thought I could fix my self with out help because I did experience that one not so good psychologist. I sought help again from a psychiatrist and therapist working together. I can't say enough about the help I've gotten from therapists, really its the only reason I'm still alive. sorry for the rant.

I guess I've just had bad luck with therapists -especially psychologists. Part of it with psychologists though is my fault. I have a science background and, well, I do not really consider psychology a science, so to speak. So I kind of probably go in with the wrong attitude which is compounded if the psychologist is half my age and a man. I know my new FP is going to want me to see a therapist of some sort, and I plan to ask to see a psychiatrist who is female and at least closer to my age. I see my FP again on Feb 3rd so we'll see.

Quote from: Allyda on January 24, 2014, 12:01:11 PM
I guess I've just had bad luck with therapists -especially psychologists. Part of it with psychologists though is my fault. I have a science background and, well, I do not really consider psychology a science, so to speak. So I kind of probably go in with the wrong attitude which is compounded if the psychologist is half my age and a man. I know my new FP is going to want me to see a therapist of some sort, and I plan to ask to see a psychiatrist who is female and at least closer to my age. I see my FP again on Feb 3rd so we'll see.

My psychiatrist gave me a choice between male or female counselor. I chose female who turned out to be my age. she's great. She's totally understanding and I love our meetings. There are bad ones out there though.

Let me state this - I wish I could have had support as a child and transitioned as a child or teenager. But this is an unrealistic wish.

I was born (like others) in the 1950s, 1957 to be exact. I grew up in coal mine and steel mill country. It was routinely accepted for adults and even teachers to say things like "Beat the sissy out of him. Just no broken bones, lost ears, eye, or teeth. Nothing permanent, but yeah, go ahead, make a man out of him."

When you grow up in that environment you learn very quickly to suppress. I wish I had not. I wish I had had support. I wish I wasn't driven to fear myself the bulk of my life.

But I also can't change the past so I try not to worry about it. If I could go back and tell myself what I know now, I would. But I can't so it's just a thought exercise that has no real meaning to me.

Quote from: LizMarie on January 24, 2014, 01:00:38 PM
Let me state this - I wish I could have had support as a child and transitioned as a child or teenager. But this is an unrealistic wish.

I was born (like others) in the 1950s, 1957 to be exact. I grew up in coal mine and steel mill country. It was routinely accepted for adults and even teachers to say things like "Beat the sissy out of him. Just no broken bones, lost ears, eye, or teeth. Nothing permanent, but yeah, go ahead, make a man out of him."

When you grow up in that environment you learn very quickly to suppress. I wish I had not. I wish I had had support. I wish I wasn't driven to fear myself the bulk of my life.

But I also can't change the past so I try not to worry about it. If I could go back and tell myself what I know now, I would. But I can't so it's just a thought exercise that has no real meaning to me.

I think is has a lot of meaning to help others understand what people have gone through to help that it doesn't keep being like that. Also putting it in context of the mentality of the environment  and not the individual dealing with it was the cause of the suffering. Any time there's a chance to educate to change for the better it should be taken. I find it incredibly healthful for my personality  to realize the problems were with the bullies that tormented me rather than some thing that was innately wrong with me.

Quote from: Allyda on January 24, 2014, 12:01:11 PM
I guess I've just had bad luck with therapists -especially psychologists. Part of it with psychologists though is my fault. I have a science background and, well, I do not really consider psychology a science, so to speak. So I kind of probably go in with the wrong attitude which is compounded if the psychologist is half my age and a man. I know my new FP is going to want me to see a therapist of some sort, and I plan to ask to see a psychiatrist who is female and at least closer to my age. I see my FP again on Feb 3rd so we'll see.

I hear you. I think it would be more useful to discuss it with a friend that's known me for a long time. But seriously, who wants to unload that kind of baggage on a friend.

Quote from: LizMarie on January 24, 2014, 01:00:38 PM
I was born  in the 1950s, 1957 to be exact. It was routinely accepted for adults and even teachers to say things like "Beat the sissy out of him. Just no broken bones, lost ears, eye, or teeth. Nothing permanent, but yeah, go ahead, make a man out of him."

When you grow up in that environment you learn very quickly to suppress.

I was an 80's kid but some of those attitudes remained. But I was born a fighter so, naturally, my instinct was to fight back. It caused a lot of problems but I didn't care. I wasn't going to let anyone force me to be something that I wasn't. Sure, I had to pick my battles, but I fought back against anything that didn't get me locked up or tossed out of the house. I remember a few times I was actually threatened with being thrown out (not because of the gender issues) and I basically called their bluff. Once I told them to 'just go ahead and do it', they would always back down. We still fought, though.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on January 24, 2014, 03:02:03 PM
I was an 80's kid but some of those attitudes remained. But I was born a fighter so, naturally, my instinct was to fight back. It caused a lot of problems but I didn't care. I wasn't going to let anyone force me to be something that I wasn't. Sure, I had to pick my battles, but I fought back against anything that didn't get me locked up or tossed out of the house. I remember a few times I was actually threatened with being thrown out (not because of the gender issues) and I basically called their bluff. Once I told them to 'just go ahead and do it', they would always back down. We still fought, though.

Yea, when it comes down to it you have to fight if your able. Bullies picked on me in 1st and 2nd and 3rd grades. When I got to 8th grade I fought back and did pretty good.

Quote from: stephaniec on January 24, 2014, 05:03:25 PM
Yea, when it comes down to it you have to fight if your able. Bullies picked on me in 1st and 2nd and 3rd grades. When I got to 8th grade I fought back and did pretty good.

The entire 12 years in school sucked for me but 2nd, 4th-8th grades were the worst. I did have one moment where I was finally alone with the "head bully" from the 4th grade one in 9th grade and I honestly could have beat that prick to death with zero remorse but I was in sooooo much trouble already from failing all but one class (in which I was the pet student with an A+ ), cutting classes to get high, sleeping in class that I decided to restrain myself from going off on this little scumbag. BUT I will NEVER forget that look of fear on him when we locked eyes now that he finally didn't have ten people to back him up. THAT was enough validation at the end of the day, that I was able to walk away and think "Yeah, you better be scared because you have NO idea how lucky you are that  are  you not only walking away in one piece, that you aren't being carried out in a body bag." I had a LOT of rage built up over what that prick and his friends had put me through those past few years. My life would have turned out radically different that's for sure.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on January 24, 2014, 05:51:56 PM
The entire 12 years in school sucked for me but 2nd, 4th-8th grades were the worst. I did have one moment where I was finally alone with the "head bully" from the 4th grade one in 9th grade and I honestly could have beat that prick to death with zero remorse but I was in sooooo much trouble already from failing all but one class (in which I was the pet student with an A+ ), cutting classes to get high, sleeping in class that I decided to restrain myself from going off on this little scumbag. BUT I will NEVER forget that look of fear on him when we locked eyes now that he finally didn't have ten people to back him up. THAT was enough validation at the end of the day, that I was able to walk away and think "Yeah, you better be scared because you have NO idea how lucky you are that are not only walking away in one piece, that you aren't being carried out in a body bag." I had a LOT of rage built up over what that prick and his friends had put me through those past few years. My life would have turned out radically different that's for sure.

felt that rage too after all that crap.

Quote from: stephaniec on January 24, 2014, 06:01:10 PM
felt that rage too after all that crap.

Well, I like to think the guy has a life that he totally hates and he's probably the same loser now that he was back then. The irony of the whole thing was that, the entire 4 year stint started because I blacked his eye after he tried to start a fight with me because I was "a ->-bleeped-<-gy little wuss". BUT I wasn't the one that had ten people around me to back me up all the time. The minimum amount he EVER had around was 3 people.

Hmmm, WHO is the coward in a situation like that?

I'm sure karma will have had it's revenge on him by now. As for me, in school I was the over achiever and got advanced a couple of grades graduating high school early. I just wanted the experience over as soon as possible and the way I saw for that to happen was to get the best grades I could. It worked. I was always thinner and smaller than others my own age. Fortunately I played drums and picked up a few other instruments as well and it being the 70's long hair was cool so I didn't get picked on too much.

Quote from: Allyda on January 25, 2014, 07:57:56 AM
I'm sure karma will have had it's revenge on him by now. As for me, in school I was the over achiever and got advanced a couple of grades graduating high school early. I just wanted the experience over as soon as possible and the way I saw for that to happen was to get the best grades I could. It worked. I was always thinner and smaller than others my own age. Fortunately I played drums and picked up a few other instruments as well and it being the 70's long hair was cool so I didn't get picked on too much.

I wish I was able to do that in High School . I hated High School.

Quote from: Allyda on January 25, 2014, 07:57:56 AM
I'm sure karma will have had it's revenge on him by now. As for me, in school I was the over achiever and got advanced a couple of grades graduating high school early. I just wanted the experience over as soon as possible and the way I saw for that to happen was to get the best grades I could. It worked. I was always thinner and smaller than others my own age. Fortunately I played drums and picked up a few other instruments as well and it being the 70's long hair was cool so I didn't get picked on too much.

I usually just screwed off in class because I didn't care about my grades. The only exception was Social Studies. I was always the top student in the class, was always engaged in heavy discussions about whatever we were studying. So, I always ended up being the teacher's pet as a result of that. It didn't hurt that almost every Social Studies class I had was taught by middle aged women, who I always got along with for some reason. The only exceptions was in 8th grade when I had a male teacher for a general Social Studies class and a male teacher for my 10th grade History class. But in 10th grade that was the ONLY time I ever failed a class like that. Well, I got a "D", but to me that was still a failing grade because I usually aced those classes. The teacher knew I had the potential to do it and asked me why I was doing so poorly. I told him the truth: That I didn't care anymore and I was just doing what I had to so that I didn't get an F so I could get my credits. I was just burnt out on dealing with pricks, jerks and schmucks. I actually tried to transfer to a "day-adult" school so I could get my diploma that way, but they actually refused to let me do it. They thought, that I thought, I was "too good for their school" and they actually posed that question to me. I wanted to go off on them and tell them what I REALLY thought about that question. I couldn't do it, though, since my mom was sitting right there so I had to restrain myself.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on January 25, 2014, 11:12:25 AM
I usually just screwed off in class because I didn't care about my grades. The only exception was Social Studies. I was always the top student in the class, was always engaged in heavy discussions about whatever we were studying. So, I always ended up being the teacher's pet as a result of that. It didn't hurt that almost every Social Studies class I had was taught by middle aged women, who I always got along with for some reason. The only exceptions was in 8th grade when I had a male teacher for a general Social Studies class and a male teacher for my 10th grade History class. But in 10th grade that was the ONLY time I ever failed a class like that. Well, I got a "D", but to me that was still a failing grade because I usually aced those classes. The teacher knew I had the potential to do it and asked me why I was doing so poorly. I told him the truth: That I didn't care anymore and I was just doing what I had to so that I didn't get an F so I could get my credits. I was just burnt out on dealing with pricks, jerks and schmucks. I actually tried to transfer to a "day-adult" school so I could get my diploma that way, but they actually refused to let me do it. They thought, that I thought, I was "too good for their school" and they actually posed that question to me. I wanted to go off on them and tell them what I REALLY thought about that question. I couldn't do it, though, since my mom was sitting right there so I had to restrain myself.

I really messed up a lot in high school . I was just tired of being with these people I didn't want to be with. I did have that one subject that I did good at And up to the point of totally giving up on school got A's in was math. they tried to put me in an upper level class but at that point I just didn't want to do it anymore. I did pick it back up in college though.

Oh I'm sure had I not played drums, guitar, keyboards, and I was the same age as those I was in class with I'd have gotten picked on alot. I looked like a girl back then too. But by my being 3 years younger than those around me, and being a musician I actually had a few football players take up for me a few times when some lowlifes tried to shake me down for lunch money, lol. All the while what's running through my head was "if these guys only knew the real me", they would be right beside those attempting to shake me down.

Quote from: Allyda on January 25, 2014, 12:17:22 PM
Oh I'm sure had I not played drums, guitar, keyboards, and I was the same age as those I was in class with I'd have gotten picked on alot. I looked like a girl back then too. But by my being 3 years younger than those around me, and being a musician I actually had a few football players take up for me a few times when some lowlifes tried to shake me down for lunch money, lol. All the while what's running through my head was "if these guys only knew the real me", they would be right beside those attempting to shake me down.

yea , the real me rings so true.

Funny how we all respond differently. I never fought back with bullies, didn't run away either - just stood there and took it. That seemed to take the 'honour' out of beating up the sissy. I also went from a very poor student in early school to an honours student in high school.

I fought back when bullied and up til age 13 generally got an ass kicking.I picked up some tips from a friend's brother and started kicking ass back.I hated fighting but got good enough to be generally left alone during my last 2 years as by then I didn't care if I lost and had a reputation as a good fighter.I remember on my 15th birthday having the snot kicked out of me by the bully and 2 of his goons.Earlier that day I gave him a bloody nose in the rugby scrum,the teacher let me get away with that one.He arrived just after my ass kicking in the locker room and told me I was different from other boys and that was why I was getting picked on and someone would pay for this if I told him who.I wasn't a rat and told him I would be OK and sort this out myself,over the next 3 weeks I got each one alone and handed back an even bigger asskicking.I started to be left alone after this,I hated school it was hell