I wouldn't say it is too late. Everyone body is different and responds to meds differently, I would talk to you endo for sure, also I would advise against protesting such as provera which is medroxyprogesterone and doesn't get fully metabolized by our bodies. I would recommend asking for prometrium as it is bio-identical and is fully metabolized by the body.  Personal experience, with the provera I was moody and didn't notice much change, when I switched to prometrium I noticed my nipple are became sore and tender at about two weeks after taking, and I believe it has had some additional effect on growth such as filling out and my areola have became larger.  I was very surprised as I have been on hormones for quite some time, so that god to show you can still see some changes even if you have been on e for quite some time.

Update: I'm on day 9 of my 10 day monthly cycle today and my boobs have gone on a major itching/sore spree in the last few days. I haven't had one of those in a long time before I started taking P.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on May 27, 2013, 02:39:17 PM
This last point really scares me and is one of the main reasons I don't even want to try it. But then I hear it really enhances regular HRT effects. I know men can take P with no feminization.

I can offer a little person assurance.  I was on HRT for 12 months without progesterone and have now been on it with progesterone for 9 months.  I would have to say that the impact, in my case, isn't certain.  But it definitely hasn't inhibited anything.  I remain as tender as ever and continue to develop. 

My doctor emphasized that, if you do take it, it is important to gradually increase and then decrease your dosage ("titration").

Good luck!

Quote from: TinaMadisonWhite on January 25, 2014, 08:12:52 AM
 

My doctor emphasized that, if you do take it, it is important to gradually increase and then decrease your dosage ("titration").

Good luck!

Did he explain why you would want to go up and down on dosage? My current gp, and Endo said cycling had no effect on changes and would only effect my mood.

Quote from: calico on January 25, 2014, 01:32:16 PM
Did he explain why you would want to go up and down on dosage? My current gp, and Endo said cycling had no effect on changes and would only effect my mood.

I just got prescribed Prometrium (formerly took Provera for a month and got way moody) so I'm looking forward to filling it. My endo says he doubts its efficacy but sees no harm in it if I want to give it a go. He won't give my anti-anxiety meds though. He's my PCP too. So he isn't just handing me out whatever I want. He also won't give me IM estrogen because he says my levels are fine. For $26, i got a month supply. I heard it was a lot more expensive so im happy about that.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on January 25, 2014, 02:03:55 PM
I just got prescribed Prometrium (formerly took Provera for a month and got way moody) so I'm looking forward to filling it. My endo says he doubts its efficacy but sees no harm in it if I want to give it a go. He won't give my anti-anxiety meds though. He's my PCP too. So he isn't just handing me out whatever I want. He also won't give me IM estrogen because he says my levels are fine. For $26, i got a month supply. I heard it was a lot more expensive so im happy about that.

Don't think I quite got that... you saying that you got a month's suppy of Prometrium for $26? Where?

So .... My first 3-month supply of Prometrium just arrived from the Medco mail-order pharmacy ($10 co-pay with my wife's insurance).

But after surviving yet another battle against the drive to end myslef on Tuesday (this has been ongoing, on & off, for over 30 years - but last Tuesday was particularly rough), both my HRT doc & my therapist have told me to stay well away from those round berry-red tablets until I work through why the drive towards suicide has become so strong recently.

/sigh ...   So it'll be a while longer before I can report back on how the Prometrium helps or otherwise.  In the meantime, my wife will have custody of the pills ... temptation is sometimes hard to resist for this addict ...

Oh, & just in case some may worry about me ending myself:  I have successfully managed to not kill myself despite wanting to for over 30 years now.  I am one stubborn b!tch; I ain't going that easily.

I've been on a progestin for the last four months......and in that time I went up a cup size, after about nine months of no change in size

TessaMarie, sorry to hear you hit such a low. I have been to the edge more than a few times, actually stepped over once. Good thing my older brother was there to catch me. Listen hon, I'm not a doctor (don't even play one on TV), but I am a user of progesterone. Now, I can't say exactly what it was, but after I started HRT, which included E, P and AA, the frequency of those dark moments decreased dramatically. I must inform you, however, that my third week was a bit of an emotional rollercoaster, but there were no thoughts of self termination, I was just a weepy girl, crying at music, sad movies and big-eyed puppies left outside.

I hope you and your therapist can work out this darkness soon. I know how scary it can be, especially in the rear view mirror. The good news: when you feel you can handle the prometrium, your boobs will sing to you

Quote from: Oriah on January 30, 2014, 04:51:31 PM
I've been on a progestin for the last four months......and in that time I went up a cup size, after about nine months of no change in size

What progestin did you take (progestins are progesterone derivates and there are dozens of them!)

I am taking Progesterone now for about 10 weeks. I went to my GP last week to ask or a blood checkup as I did not take Estradiol for 4 weeks now. I also described that I have before given Estradiol tablets but dont take them anymore because they cause the estron levels to rise and thats not good. She confirmed that Estron is bad and also immediately told me"and they did not give you progesterone???". I told her that now I have started n it and she said that she can see it. She tole me she did have to look twice in the waiting room as I look so differently from 6 months ago - face, skin, overall appearance and body language, I look happier and more awake and that is all true. She also said it will be good for bones, nerves and most PR are in the brain so it make the braim work better, it is a precursor of many other hormones. And obvioulsy it is alrady visible. Not in breast growth but in the whole body. I was happy about that

So, reviving this thread...I started progesterone yesterday, Prometrium oral on top of my estrogen taken sublingually. I'm post-op. Taking it twice daily due to its short half-life. I tried it before with no conclusive results but this time, will stick with it and see what happens. So far, soo good, feel more relaxed, as expected! Warmer all over, also as expected...but also noticed that when I take E sublingually vs orally, I get that warm feeling too, due perhaps to increased vasodilation.

I'm especially interested in the balancing effects of P, calming vs excitatory effects of E on the brain, its effects on skin and hair (softer and less dry), its reputation to make one look younger, more fresh, increase breast growth (add fullness, roundness), reduce water retention sometimes associated with too much E or E alone and give curves, increase subcutaneous fat all the right places.  This is after having read tens of hundreds of testimonials from other transsexual (and hysterectomized) women on P, read various studies on humans and animals...so let's see...I'm giving it another try.

Interestingly at the WPATH conference Louis Gooren (the leading TG endocrinologist) said during his plenary talk that taking progesterone was a complete biological waste of time for transgender women, there is no biological proof for efficacy, no credible scientific evidence of an effect.

His opinion was that once uterine transplantation was mainstream in young transgender women (which is happening) then it would be essential for those who wished to carry a fetus as the biological role of progesterone is in the reproductive systems of females but essentially biologically useless for women not in a reproductive phase of life.

Not a single endocrinologist argued against his point of view.

Well then, he should talk to the hundreds of transsexual women that have benefited greatly from the addition of progesterone to their regimen. And answer to the numerous studies out there that show, without a doubt, that progesterone promotes growth of certain structures in the breast that are NOT stimulated by estrogen alone. In fact, a study by his colleagues in the Netherlands (I've personally read several studies by Gooren so know about him) found that...

Short-Term and Long-Term Histologic Effects of Castration and Estrogen Treatment on Breast Tissue of 14 Male-to-Female Transsexuals in Comparison With Two Chemically Castrated Men
Kanhai, Robert C.J. M.D.; Hage, J. Joris M.D., Ph.D.; van Diest, Paul J. M.D., Ph.D.; Bloemena, Elisabeth M.D., Ph.D.; Mulder, J. Wiebe M.D., Ph.D.
Author Information
From the Departments of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery (R.C.J.K., J.J.H., J.W.M.) and Pathology (P.J.v.D., E.B.), Academisch Ziekenhuis Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
Address correspondence and reprint requests to Dr. J. Joris Hage, Department of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, Academisch Ziekenhuis Vrije Universiteit, PO Box 7057, NL-1007 MB Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

"Only in male-to-female transsexuals in whom progestative chemical castration is combined with feminizing estrogen therapy will full acinar and lobular formation occur with hormonally stimulated nuclei and pseudolactational changes. Hence, combined progestative antiandrogens and estrogens are necessary for genetically male breast tissue to mimic the natural histology of the female breast"

"Because the nonprogestative chemical castration in our male patients treated for prostatic cancer did not result in full acinar and lobular formation, although progestative chemical castration combined with estrogen intake in the transsexual patients did, we conclude that exposure to exogenous estrogens and progestative drugs is needed to induce the occurrence of acini and lobules in chemically castrated men."

"such formation seems to decrease when progestative antiandrogen treatment is stopped after surgical castration."

So, his colleagues seem to suggest, based on their scientific observations that the addition of a progestin is necessary for full breast growth and DOES make a difference.

I also wanted to relate a little something that I always notice when adding progesterone, that my areolas puff up (are more swollen) and sooooo soft to the touch. Every single time, it happens! And very soon after its addition. And I think I'm hungrier too.

I have read the WPATH standards of care document and the single paragraph on progesterone refers to a single outdated study from 1986 that used only 8 people on progestins for the duration and the progestin was medroxyprogesterone acetate. The document they wrote uses progestins and progesterone interchangably and lumps them all together in terms of their effects and implications.

I am not massively confident on anything the WPATH present in general having read that, least of all their work on progesterone.

How ironic as well that Gooren should state this, being a proponent of the use of Androcur in his pre-op patients, a progestin with progestative effects. His anti-androgen of choice. I know he doesn't use it for his progestative effects but still, it's ironic.  Maybe he thinks it's not necessary because he observes good breast growth in his patients and doesn't realize Androcur has progestative effects or underestimates its progestative effects. Anywho...

SOC is so outdated and irrelevant it isn't funny but that was also part of the reason for the conference.

Kay I'm not interested in arguing, I was an endocrinologist at one time in my career path, I am no longer, and haven't been for a long time. I do have a tendency to listen to unbiased expert opinion. That is all I'm stating, not my personal opinion but that of the leaders in the field.

Quote from: KayXo on February 20, 2014, 10:30:59 AM
And I think I'm hungrier too.

Ain't that the truth! I'm currently about 1/2 way through this month's 10 day progesterone cycle and I could eat a horse right now, and I would still want dessert afterward lol... So I've been eating. Hopefully the progesterone will direct the weight I'm gaining to the right places; my boobs are beginning to itch like crazy so maybe it will go there

Quote from: KayXo on February 20, 2014, 09:41:30 AM
I'm especially interested in the balancing effects of P, calming vs excitatory effects of E on the brain, its effects on skin and hair (softer and less dry), its reputation to make one look younger, more fresh, increase breast growth (add fullness, roundness), reduce water retention sometimes associated with too much E or E alone and give curves, increase subcutaneous fat all the right places.  This is after having read tens of hundreds of testimonials from other transsexual (and hysterectomized) women on P, read various studies on humans and animals...so let's see...I'm giving it another try.

This !!
Great Kay !!! Please keep us constantly updated ! You know how much I'm interested in this matter.
After all I never trashed anectodal evidence, sometimes it's more faithful to the facts than science
itself ! After all if that theory by doctor John Lee about estrogenic dominance is around, I don't think
definitely it was just a legend without foundations. I will also do the same test, you know, but it will still
require me some months before I see my endo again... you also know my suspect: both cis M and W
have some P, but after SRS it perhaps sets off completely, so I think it's still better with than without it.
Thank you very much for trying and for your contributions to finding the truth.

I started taking a low dose of Prometrium every evening almost 3 weeks ago.

I did feel a bit better the day after I started, & was better able than before to cope with thoughts of suicide that day after that.  The big surprise for me was on the day after my 5th capsule:  It felt as if the depression that had stifled me for over 30 years had completely left.  It has been a little over two weeks now, & it still hasn't returned.  Whatever other effects Prometrium may have, this one effect alone outweighs everything else.

I have had brief times of up to one to two weeks relatively free of depression over the past few decades (twice I got as much as a month).  So the effect I seem to be noticing may yet prove to be entirely psychosomatic & temporary.  I don't really care whether or not the former applies, as long as the latter doesn't.  Every time my depression lifted before I tended to start new ways of coping with old problems.  This time I am finishing existing tasks instead of starting new tasks.  There is a big difference, which my wife is seeing.  She is very happy with the improvement in my behaviour so far this month.  So am I.

I will report back to this thread later and say whether or not my depression has remained absent.  (Anything else is very much secondary for me.)

Be well,

Tessa