Quote from: Joanna Dark on February 05, 2014, 11:17:17 PM
I will say this: the idea that trans women are basically men in how they talk and interact is offensive as heck. I can't even believe it was said. Wow. Maybe I miss read it but I dont think so.
I started this thread a long time ago and I have not reread my original post, but that doesn't sound like the sort of thing I would normally say. What I would say is that most transwomen were raised as boys to become men, they socialized out in the world as men, and they learned to talk and interact as men in order to function. When they transition, that learned behavior does not vanish. Eventually new behaviors are learned by some. Some have no interest in learning new social patterns. And for others, they just don't take to them very well. Result: lots of masculinity in many, but not all, interactions with transwomen. I think that's slightly different. It's not that transwomen aren't women.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on February 05, 2014, 11:17:17 PM
To the OP: you dont want to say anythign about your past but you say you were socialized female yet born male and lived most of your adult life as a male, but you just dont' speak male yet they speak to you for over a half hour?
Well, I tend to talk mostly abut the last 3 years or so of my life. But basically, yes, I don't want to discuss my distant past. Which is why I have never said that I was born male. People tend to assume that. I get more than a little tired of correcting them. So it's best to just let it slide unless it's directly relevant to something.
I'm not sure what the length of time men talk to me has to do with anything. I've got one at the moment who will talk to me a lot longer than half an hour. Whenever I run into him, he will also insist on walking me to everywhere I go. And he's also asked me out before. I don't know, maybe those three things are related (of course they are, this is sort of stating the obvious). It's not the first time I've experienced all three of them going together. I don't think it's because of how thoroughly I manage to socialize like one of the guys.
As far as my personal history, let's just say that some of my recent encounters with bullies on this website have convinced me that I've already shared too much of my history. I honestly wish I had never started this thread. If I knew then what I know now, I never would have felt safe enough to do it. I needed some support yesterday (I'm better today but still not good) and I knew better than to look for it here. So it's probably pretty unlikely that I'm going to share much more of my personal history any time soon. I'll probably just stuck to discussing more abstract social and political topics and avoiding most personal discussions about me.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on February 05, 2014, 11:17:17 PM
As soon as I try to associate with men as a man, everyone shuts up like cats who swallowed canaries or somethign like that. I don't know. I'm intersexed, which is something I rarely, if ever, mention. I grew boobs at age 12 and didn't pass as a boy until 2008 when I started taking steroids. People assumed I was a girl until I told them otherwise. I was in a halfway house at age 18 as I was kickd out and the guys wanted me to wear women's clothes, they had them alll set out, like im some idiot and would just wear them. I shaved my head to help, and they all said wow, now you should put a nzi symbol on your forehead you look like a manson girl.
You have a history you don't like to talk about and that you seldom, if ever mention. So do I. Why is that okay for you, but not me? One bit of mine that I've been pretty forthright about is my hormonal history. I've taken both testosterone and estrogen. I've been forthright about that because when we talk about the effects of hormones, my history with them means that things happen in ways that are similar to other people, but a bit different. But I suppose it's also a clue that something a little different from your typical "born biologically male, transitioned to female" transition story is going on with me.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on February 05, 2014, 11:17:17 PM
So, what's that make me? But I still feel I got male privilege. Not the good kind: when I was 18 and was sent to prison for two years for a crime that a female would have got six months probation for if even arrested, I was sexually assaulted by two men and people literally bid on me. I still have nightmares. I made friends with a very large transsexual and the problems stopped. The other thing was men are men and many of them straight up treated me as a woman and stopped people from picking on me. Their words: I don't like people picking on girls. I also started working out and all people said was yeah you really bulked up, trying to be a bull dyke? Another guy kept calling me cupcake and he contolled the laundary and gave me all smalls which empasized my oversized butt and really made my booobs stick out. I remember the first comment from this guy, who basically protected me cause he was just cool like tyhat and even smoked weeed with me, but he was like wow Mal, yeah they called me Mallory, you have boobs. What are they B cups. Nice. Most guys simply would not fight me and i tried many times just to prove I would and they never, ever would. I don't fight girls wa always the answer. They even wanted to put me on A block. Now, this might sound fun or cool to some, cause it means i look femme, but you begin to understand how horrid it was. For two years, I was always afraid. But then once I heard in another prsion they give people like me female hormones, and that's the first I ever heard of it. I just thought you got a sex change a voila. Now I know.
This sounds like an incredibly difficult personal experience that you went through. I'm sorry that it happened to you. I believe no one deserves that.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on February 05, 2014, 11:17:17 PM
After I got out my life got much better, and I started dating a lesbian until she wanted a man. I edited a women's magazine, my life was great from 2004-2008. In 2008, after the steroids, i lost to a girl in an arm wrestling contest, and she said: I still have never lost to another girl like it was some point of pride. Her brother started whsispering something like shhhh, she'll hear.
But I just dont understand how the OP is different from other trans women. Maybe i'm reading it wrong, and forgive me if I am, but it sounded that way and I dont know why noone pointed out. Maybe I'm going insane.
Well, I've explained a little bit above. But I think the main thing is that just as trans* people do not owe cispeople owe an explanation of what and how and why they are who they are, so too do I not owe you an explanation. It's nothing personal. Had you asked me that back when I originally posted, I'd probably have been willing to say more. But now I'm kind of afraid to do so. I'm sorry. I'd imagine that's frustrating.
What I will point out is that in this forum, in addition to transwomen and transmen, there are also crossdressers, retransitioners, multiple (more than twice) transitioners, people who were biologically born one way but raised to conform to a different gender role, intersex persons, and many other identities besides "other trans women." It's kind of hard for me to understand why people assume anyone has one particular identity or another.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on February 05, 2014, 11:17:17 PM
See the thing is, I have been friends with guys, and every single time, when I hang out with the group of guys, I never hang out again. When they play catch, no one throws to me. When I tried to play football in seventh grade, they said the cheerleader team is over there little girl. I eventually got on but they couldnt find shoulder pads for me as my shoulders are 13 inches across. Whren I got my grad pics taken they asked me why I was wearing a suit and not a dress like I was supposed to.
Yet, because i'm so andro, once I say im male people believe it, well not always, some want to see my id and some when I was kid held me down and wanted to see my vagina since they did not believe I was a man. These were my friends. The one I actually went out with and I dont know how but he knew I was going to get a sex change and told me that a lot of times people kill themselves after. I can't even count how many times people have asked me if I'm trans way before transition.
I probably shouldnt have even said any of this. It seems pointless. But I just fail to understand why you are different from other transsexuals. Why you feel you were socialized female. Don't take offense i'd just like to know cause I consider myself socialized male and I did get some privilege from time to time but thats gone now. Now I get groped on train platforms by creeps or have guys come up and start following me and holding myh hand and trying to kiss me. But I'm just at a loss. I really wish I could unknow everything I have read on this thread.
Well, one way I differ from "other transsexuals" is in not being a transsexual. That's just about the only thing you can call me that I will come right out and say no to every time.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on February 05, 2014, 11:17:17 PM
Because really I fit in nowhere. However, most girls love being friends with me and always say, you're just like us. My ex's friends referred to me as a girl like it was nothing and once my ex said im a girly girl. And I said: don't you mean girly guy. And she said no, i don't. Girly girl. You're a woman with a penis. Look at you. You have boobs and teeny tiny hands and feet smaller than most women. Every single woman i have been friends with wanted me to wear her clothes, go shopping and try on makeup and stuff. This isn't bragging. It does me no good since I dont pass in winter. I just get funny looks. I do pass sometimes but winter has killed my ability to pass for some strange reason. I think it's the skin. Im rambling and have now offended everyone prolly but I had to say it. sorry, just sorry. I dont edit.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I for one am not at all offended. I just hope that this has given you a chance to get some things out that were weighing on you. I really wish I had something more helpful to say.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on February 05, 2014, 11:17:17 PM
That's the only thing could thathas come from my condition: my frienships with women. My BFF from college and I used to pass notes and talk about guys and make fun of people, ya know, for kicks. Nothing mean. But now I think am I even trans? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's all because people have told me how female i look and act my whole life. Alll my cousins have a white spot in between their breasts. I do too. Once when i was 12, I took my shirt off, and they saw it. They also saw my boobs coming in. It was so embarassing i wanted to die. TTRhey al started laughing look matty has the mark just like all of us and he's growing boobs. OMG!!!! So, when you going to get your bikini. I remember it like yesterday. I never took my shirt off again. So, was I socialized male? I think so. But i am a very femme guy and there is no hiding it. It seeps out. If I get excited, I get all enthusiastic and happy and gush like a girl. My ex-BF thinks it's hilarious.
I guess it doesnt matter; I'm jusy me and more than anything I just want my BF back. I want him back so bad. So if i offended anyone please take this into account. Im kind of in a bad place but not for long. I got jobs and things are going my way. I know people think Mexico is horrid for SRS vut for me, its that or nothing. And id rather have that. I really believe it's going to happen. And I can be complete. Gawd, I aid tooooo much,.
I'm glad that things are looking up for you.
I hope the future has much happiness in store for you.
