Susan's Place Logo

News:

Please be sure to review The Site terms of service, and rules to live by

Main Menu

cis fem confused about mtf issues

Started by locame, February 18, 2014, 12:17:03 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

FalseHybridPrincess

You know what I call this ...
bad luck :/

Its like if every dog I met on the street tried to bite me...but there are sooo many more dogs that wont try that ,,,I just wasnt lucky to meet them instead of the others...

Yeah most mtf are shy and decent ,,,thats why they blend into the crowd well...
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

ganjina

Quote from: learningtolive on February 18, 2014, 07:13:46 AM
That may be true, but inappropriate behavior is inappropriate behavior no matter the level or who it comes from.  We can't excuse it.  That being said, I'd like to think this applies to a small minority of our community and not representative of most of us in the transexual community.  Most I've met are not like that.

Am not excusing anything, just saying.
  •  

LordKAT

Funny thing is, I have had more 'advances' and comments after starting HRT than I ever did before, and all those from cis folks.

I find the OP hard to believe.
  •  

kelly_aus

Quote from: LordKAT on February 18, 2014, 08:37:28 AM
Funny thing is, I have had more 'advances' and comments after starting HRT than I ever did before, and all those from cis folks.

I find the OP hard to believe.

Me too..
  •  

dalebert

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
Why do all my mtf interactions have this strange personal boundary issues?

I'm even more confused by that than you considering that I'm a gay man who's been around MTFs on so many occasions I can't even count and I haven't had even one experience like that. I'm 45 years old. Everyone is different, of course, and I won't make generalizations about MTFs based on my anecdotal experiences *ahem*, but I will say my experiences have generally been nearly the exact opposite. I've found them to mostly be a bit prudish and reserved, something that I chalked up to fearing for their own safety and just being shy because they've spent their entire lives socialized as male and they're finally finding their true selves very late in their lives compared to most folks.

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
How do I support equality without having my own safety violated? And why is it not ok with the politically correct crowd for me to have an issue with an erection in proximity to my naked body without permission just because the owner identifies as fem?

By addressing problems that specific individuals have. An erection in the locker room would make most people uncomfortable, even in the men's locker room, and you're right to have an issue with that particular person. I honestly can't explain why your anecdotal experiences with trans women have been so different from mine. I know "freaky" people are out there and I've met some. I just haven't seen any obvious correlation between that and trans folk.

I guess there is also the phenomenon that the loudest and most in-your-face types are the ones people notice. Meanwhile, for every one of those, there may have been 20 other trans women in your midst just trying to get along with their lives and not attract (usually negative) attention, so they didn't get your attention and they didn't make an impression on you that trans women are much like every other woman out there.

kira21 ♡♡♡

I also find the OP hard to believe. A big glitter 'I'm trans hat'... wtf? Are you sure they weren't drag queens? They are a very different thing! She will have met a few trans people who did just blend and she didn't notice.

Perhaps, on the chance that this is true, not an exaggeration or whatever...

Perhaps those openly trans people are so desensitised to this sort of thing by constantly being asked about things like their genitals in front of friends and family, that they have become accustomed to different boundaries and consider talking about how their boobs look is actually quite tame!

kathyk

This is for everyone, not just the OP.  I included a link to a Janet Mock video at the bottom of this. It's very short, and please take the time to watch it.

I'm in two therapy groups and a social group in the SF bay area. There's one girl and one guy I know who do mildly inappropriate things, and they're advised in group settings to change their ways.  And me, I just dressed weird for a while.  But there are "pretenders" out there who "pose" as trans for sexual reasons, and they strangely think they understand trans life or individuals.   And these "posers" do nothing more than damage our ability to attain the rights we desire, the protections under law that we deserve, and interfere with the education of those that are open to trans issues.

Most people have probably talked to dozens of pre and post op transwomen and never knew it. We aren't supposed to be noticed, we usually have no reason to speak about ourselves, and we honestly don't want to discuss the subject.  Like almost everyone else, I've become quite feminine in transition, and now look very much like my mother in her late 60's.  And although I'm personally out, open, and proud, it's only when I'm dealing with people who have a reason to know.  I don't hide it, yet I don't advertise it, and I don't wear a sign because it's nobody's business.  I even took the flag off my jeep since pride doesn't mean I have to draw attention.  It only means I'm not hiding the fact that I'm a woman.

There is one more thing.  It concerns "Passing" which is the subject of the Janet Mock video I've linked.  Please, WE ARE NOT PASSING, we are women.  We've always been women, and always will be.  It's just taken each of us some time to get to a point where we faced our fears, understood our lives, brushed aside obstacles that stood in our way, then became truly complete in our being.

I used to get terribly upset about comments from a girl here on Susan's who was adamantly opposed to the use of the "P" word (as she put it).  I now understand her point, and I wish I could tell Katie how sorry I am to have discounted her advice. 

Katherine

http://www.upworthy.com/if-youve-ever-looked-at-a-person-who-is-trans-and-thought-wow-i-can-barely-tell-watch-this?g=3





  •  

Joanna Dark

Okay...well the pendulum swings both ways...I am an intersex female, meaning I am genetically female but pheontypically male, I have a weird, uh, thing. I posted an ad on the WFW section explaining my situtation, staiing I do not want sex, but would consider it but am looking for a friend first. This person conteacted me and wanted me to be in a Poly Girl rlationship with her husband (she has a 4 year old too) and she did nto read my ad. After finally cyber stlaking me and reading the post she said and I quote: But no pussy.  Not even a dry cave to ->-bleeped-<-. So, yeah, I guess all women are delcate little creatures who never do anything wrong. I feel violated and can't stop crying. I am not even technically trans. So how do you explain this? But, I do understand what you are saying and sometimes the fascination with boobs gets to me on these boards. But not everyone is like that.
  •  

Ltl89

To play devils advocate, I really can understand women feeling a little uncomfortable with locker room situation to a degree.  Not because those of us that are transexual are getting off on it,  but because I really could see some men dressing up and claiming to be trans for voyeristic/fetishistic purposes.  Honestly I wouldn't be shocked about the stories about erections in the bathroom even if that is rare.  That's why I personally feel that those who aren't transexuals well into their transition and/or full time with female id should avoid those scenarios to prevent any bad vibes, whether there is a reason to have it or not.  That's just my opinion and don't intend to upset anyone as idont judge. I know there is a lot of scare mongering and it gets thrown on all of us as a group, but I do feel the distinction between fulltime transexuals and the broader transgender community makes sense in this case in order to maintain a safe space for all women..  And by the way, I personally will not use a female bathroom myself until I'm full time, so I'm not casting judgment on anyone else here.  Its just how i feel.  In any case, I don't think we should totally exclude the possibility that these concerns have some reason behind them even if it can sound sensationalistic. Sorry if that's too controversial, I was debating on whether or not to post this.  Delete it if it is.
  •  

jussmoi4nao

I think there are sexual fetishists in the trans* community. Sorry, I don't see why that's wrong to say. Every community has some of those types, and the trans* community has a loot, despite denying it has any.

At what point do we end the PC bandwagon? I say when you have people violating womens spaces and making a mockery of the experiences of trans* people who have struggled with dysphoria and are just looking to be comfortable in their own skin, the sacrifice of political correctness is that you're invalidating...frankly more genuine experiences.

I'm sorry, this cultish mentality, its not something I want to be apart of. Support and affirmation is good, but sometimes this community takes it a weird level of "trannies can do no wrong". And this post I'm going to stand by cuz I said nothing wrong.

I should add I've had experiences not unlike the OPs leaving me...disillusioned.
  •  

stephaniec

I'll have to say I kind of question what the OP has seemed to encounterd. I worked in the heart of the lgbt community in Chicago for a long time. experience people living their day to day lives .  Not once had I encountered any thing like this. I had to wait for a bus in the early hours on a street just about owned by trans prostitutes again over a period of many years never was approached in a distasteful way by an mtf. I use to have an mtf that I bumped into quite often on the street thought I was cute but never made any thing other then polite conversation. I think if the OP wants to know what the trans community is  about just go to the community center and hang out and talk or just watch.
  •  

Miss_Bungle1991

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on February 18, 2014, 12:28:58 AM
You are just finding the bad apples somehow. Most of us want to quietly blend in and just live. I have met some of the girls you talk about and rest assured, this is not how the biggest majority of us act at all. If you read the postings here we do not want to attract attention like this as it makes us a BIG target for all kinds of abuse and danger. Most of us just want to work, pay bills, live out lives and have a normal existence. I would be just as horrified being approached by these inappropriate types myself. It is just a case of there always being one in every bunch. Please don't put us in the same category as the one's you have met. Most of us you pass on the street every day and will never know it. Jerks will be everywhere you go anymore. I hope this helps. :)

Yeah, you said pretty much what I was gonna say.

It sounds like to me you just had the misfortune to come across some total idiots that happened to be MtF, that's all.
  •  

Calder Smith

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 18, 2014, 10:49:11 AM
I think there are sexual fetishists in the trans* community. Sorry, I don't see why that's wrong to say. Every community has some of those types, and the trans* community has a loot, despite denying it has any.

At what point do we end the PC bandwagon? I say when you have people violating womens spaces and making a mockery of the experiences of trans* people who have struggled with dysphoria and are just looking to be comfortable in their own skin, the sacrifice of political correctness is that you're invalidating...frankly more genuine experiences.

I'm sorry, this cultish mentality, its not something I want to be apart of. Support and affirmation is good, but sometimes this community takes it a weird level of "trannies can do no wrong". And this post I'm going to stand by cuz I said nothing wrong.

I should add I've had experiences not unlike the OPs leaving me...disillusioned.

I think I'm going to give you rep for this.

There's bad people in every community, transgender people aren't excluded from this. OP, you probably were unlucky and met some really strange people. I'm sure not all MTFs are like this.
Manchester United diehard fan.
  •  

kathyk

Quote from: Joanna Dark on February 18, 2014, 10:14:46 AM
...I posted an ad on the WFW section explaining my situtation, staiing I do not want sex, but would consider it but am looking for a friend first. This person conteacted me and wanted me to be in a Poly Girl rlationship with her husband ... After finally cyber stlaking me and reading the post she said and I quote: But no pussy.  Not even a dry cave to <not allowed>. So, yeah, I guess all women are delcate little creatures who never do anything wrong. I feel violated and can't stop crying. I am not even technically trans. So how do you explain this? But, I do understand what you are saying and sometimes the fascination with boobs gets to me on these boards. But not everyone is like that.

Sorry Joanna.  If it was my post that got you upset, I'm sorry.  WFW, TFW, TFM and other Craigslist adds attract trolls, losers, and sexually vial people.  Many women who respond to adds are actually male posers, who could care less about your feelings.  You're going to get those kind on Craigslist because it's where they hang out to find, or attract targets.  I posted once on Craigslist eight or ten years ago, and it was such a disturbing event I canceled an email account, and changed all my passwords.

Protect yourself Joanna.  And take care.

Quote from: learningtolive on February 18, 2014, 10:37:41 AM
... I personally will not use a female bathroom myself until I'm full time, so I'm not casting judgment on anyone else here.  Its just how i feel.  ...

I was using the women's room when full time here in Michigan last summer, but hadn't yet gone to court for my name and gender change in California.   I stopped when I found out that under Michigan law I could be labeled as a sex criminal for doing so.  And instead I'd actually jump into my truck and drove to a location where there was a gender neutral restroom.  It was a pain in the ass, so to speak, but I'd rather do that than have legal problems.  Having that Name and Gender change in writing is liberating, and I no longer have to worry about the restroom thing.  But along with my drivers license I carry a copy of my California Superior Court Decree with my new birth certificate, and I'll so until SRS next winter.





  •  

Devlyn

  •  

kathyk






  •  

Tristan

I know I will take some heat for saying this but from I have noticed (online at least). A lot of what your talking about. It seems to come from older people that are like cross dressers or in that category (no offense to that group of people). I also notice those kind of people have... Shall we say a different mindset. They don't tend to think like a average woman. I mean if they did they would know that type of invasive talk was inappropriate. I'm going to shut up now. Pm me if you want to talk more about this. I'm making sure to censor myself 
  •  

Miss_Bungle1991

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 18, 2014, 10:49:11 AM
I'm sorry, this cultish mentality, its not something I want to be apart of. Support and affirmation is good, but sometimes this community takes it a weird level of "trannies can do no wrong". And this post I'm going to stand by cuz I said nothing wrong.

I agree with you.

Just because someone is trans doesn't automatically mean they are innocent, pure & have a heart of gold. The trans community is no different from any other social grouping. You have people that are cool and just want to live their lives and not bother anyone. Then you have some people that are truly freaks and have some screwed up intentions.

It comes down to the individual and not the group they happen to belong to.
  •  

michelle

Hi,  the truth be known, is that individuals in the transgender population vary in behavior and presentation like members as do the members of any other population group.    Within every population of people there diverse ideas of what is acceptable presentation and behaviour and what is not.    Within a society each individual shares space with individuals who are different from us and may even make us feel uncomfortable.    People whose gender identity is female share space with every other individual whose gender identity is female.   And people whose gender identity is male share spaces with all other individuals whose gender identity is male.   Our physical bodies will have a variety of differences.   Not all people whose gender identity is female are going to have physical characteristics such that they will pass as cis females, some of us will always pass only as transgender females with many physical characteristics of males.   

However, this does not mean that there are not codes of decency for every individual for every individual.    Each of us has the right to privacy and our shared facilities should be structured as to allow each individual to keep their private parts private.    Female restrooms are mostly structured for this,  while male restrooms for the most part are not.   Except for the one seaters in every female restroom I have been in there is no reason for anyone to witness an other individual's genitals unless they were peeping through the cracks, and even then my clothing keeps my private parts private.   Gym locker rooms are another matter because many of them have public shower and dressing rooms, at least male locker rooms do.   If this makes people uncomfortable then these rooms need to be changed or adapted so that individuals who want more privacy have it. 

As far as being sexually aroused in public places including dressing rooms and showers, this is not socially accepted for anybody, male or female no matter what their genitalia is.   

Addressing inappropriate conversations in public,  just needs to be handled by each individual.   When anyone gets too personal with someone that they just meant or barely know it creates problems.   This includes conversations about religion, politics, gender identity, sexual matters.   We just have to politely let the other person know that we don't feel comfortable discussing the matter with strangers and each of needs to be polite and drop the matter.

The individual who advertized that she was transgender in glitter has the right to do that, and each of us who is uncomfortable with it just has to deal with it.   Personally, I hate to see young men with their pants down around their knees, and even though I spent thirty years as an elementary school teacher whose job it was to be concerned as to rather my students dressed appropriately to the school dress code, just have to ignore it.   I live in a ocean beach area where individuals go into restaurants in all kinds of swim suits and without shoes, if the management doesn't do anything,  I just have to deal.   I try and cross the street and someone driving a car six blocks away speeds up, and I just make it across the lane without getting hit.   People in the connected townhouse next to me turn up the bass on their stereo system and vibrate all four connected town houses, and what can I do, nothing, just deal.    Neighbors have loud parties and barbeques which aggravate my sinuses and give me headaches, and what can I do, nothing, just deal with it.   There are going to be transgenders whose style makes us uncomfortable,  but just like much else in life,  we just have to ignore it.    I also completely understand that,  I also have behaviors and mannerisms that others have to ignore and deal with because  my actions make others uncomfortable and irritate them.   

Now I will state it plainly, that at 67 years old, I am a transgender grandma, who is never going to pass every minute as a cis female.   I am also a female who has fathered six children,  the oldest who is in her forties.   I have thirty years of elementary students and old friends who knew me when I tried to pass as male.   Members of my family,  my children's friends who were also my students are my friends on Facebook.   I am out to them all on Facebook.   My current cis partner accepts me as a male who presents as a female,  and not as the woman, that I am.    I have to live with that.   I  am really a plain Jane.   I am called ma'am one second, and sir the next.   I am just as much a woman as any other woman.   This is me.    I will probably make some of the transgender women who wish to pass totally as cis women uncomfortable because I will never fit into two gender only paradigm.   Well get over it, many of us transgender women are not going to fit the mold, simply because we can't, and some of us because we won't, and we shouldn't have too.  But, we are still women.    Eleanor Roosevelt did not fit the mold,  neither did Calamity Jane.   

I don't mean any disrespect to the person who started this forum,  the individuals she meant,  made her uncomfortable, which she had a right to feel.   When this happens to each of us we have to do what we need to do to extract ourselves from the situation.   But this does not mean that we have the right to insist that laws be passed to take away the individual rights of other people or structure our public facilities in away to exclude other people.   The fact is that facilities that are available to women should be available to all women without exception, this includes transgender women.   The same goes for men.   But these facilities must be structured in such away as to provide each individual who desires it areas where they have the individual privacy they need.   Within these facilities each individual owes it to themselves and others to behave modestly and keep the private parts of their bodies as private as possible.  Mixing of adults and children has always been a problem and so is having areas where children are unsupervised.   I do not wish to be nude in the presence of children in any situation.   While teaching in some areas adults and students used the same restrooms at the same time.  While other schools had policies against this, and these provided staff only restrooms which in some cases were male/female restrooms, one seaters.   What this tells me is that the current structure of our restrooms and dressing rooms in gyms and pool areas are not structured to meet the current needs of our population today.   Many of these locker rooms have too many areas which allow public nudity only.    My only personal solution would be for me to never be publically nude in these areas.   I would shower in my swim suit and put on my sun dress if there were no private showers and shower again at home.   In the gym,  I would find a private area to change to my workout clothes and afterward wear my sweat suit home if their were no private shower and dressing areas.    But this is just me.

I must also add that my perspective is colored by the area of the country I grew up in, that is the Dakotas.    In most cases people in this area have been socialized to avoid public confrontations, unless they are intoxicated.    Thus if service in a public business does not meet our standards,  we say little to the business,  complain about the poor service to our friends and relatives, and never go back unless we absolutely have to.    In many small towns some public business and services are the only game in town.   Eventually the complaints get around to the business concerned, and they make changes, or not.   

This generally means that polite transgender people from the Dakotas, unless they are intoxicated,  would use the dressing facilities of their gender in such away as to not call attention to themselves or create a hassle.   Those of us that are modest would keep our privates private,  while those who are not would follow the customs of the facility.   Of course, as in all areas of the country Dakota people do have their disrespectful cads who make asses of themselves.   We just write them off.

Where I live now in Florida,  if somebody ticks somebody off, they just shoot them.   Then they tell the police the person they shot made them fear for their life,  so that they had no other recourse, but to shoot them.   The shooting is very difficult to get a conviction on, or ruled justifiable.    This excuse is used by both the police and private individuals.  So when I use the lady's room, I pick one that isn't busy,  or a one seater.   I go in quietly, talk to no one, do my business, hide in the stall if I feel their could be a problem with someone else in the restroom,  wash up and leave quickly, drawing as little attention to myself as humanly possible.

Be true to yourself.  The future will reveal itself in its own due time.    Find the calm at the heart of the storm.    I own my womanhood.

I am a 69-year-old transsexual school teacher grandma & lady.   Ethnically I am half Irish  and half Scandinavian.   I can be a real bitch or quite loving and caring.  I have never taken any hormones or had surgery, I am out 24/7/365.
  •  

Hikari

Honestly most of the OPs post sounds more like some fetish cross dressers with boundary issues or people who watched Ru Paul's drag race and wanted to be an in your face drag queen like on that show.

Most people just want to blend in, but there are highly sexualized and inappropriate people from all genders and orientations. I admit I am also one to get easily offended and grossed out by overt sexual displays towards me from just about anyone. I guess it is just something I can't wrap my mind around much,and I can understand the stress and frustration that can come from being subjected to people who are so inappropriate.

The sad thing is from guy masterbaiting on the subway, to women who touch other women without regard to the fact that a woman can indeed sexually harass another woman; there are all kids of messed up people out there, I would think though that the mtf community is a statistically insignificant  amount of the bad apples.

I would also say that on HRT I couldn't even imagine being overtly sexual, my libido was always low but on HRT I really have to want to think sexual thoughts to get in a frisky mood and even then it won't last without the atmosphere being right.
私は女の子 です!My Blog - Hikari's Transition Log http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,377.0.html
  •