I suspect this is confirmation bias, which is a natural human thing... as others have said, the trans women who act like other perfectly ordinary women don't stand out (and don't have it on a hat - the heck was THAT woman thinking?!), so the only ones who are a) identifiable and b) memorable are the ones misbehaving horrifically.  I've actually had someone say to me that they've never met a trans person, in a room that contained two of them right then. Not all of us are like that, but the ones that stick in the mind are the bad apples.

(I've also, ironically, had this same conversation with a trans female friend who'd become afraid of all cis people after being sexually assaulted multiple times by cis women. As others have said, every group does *have* its bad apples.)

Quote from: Dahlia on February 18, 2014, 01:30:12 AM
The majority of MTF are into women (only), very often have a (very) masculine nature and sometimes behave like straight men..


I couldn't get my head around it when I came out  as a MTF (whose  into masculine men only) but gotten used to it and learned to avoid them IRL....since some of them don't and won't understand I'm not into women at all.

I attended a MTF meeting a couple of years ago...a middle aged MTF chatted me up and asked if I had SRS....to my 'no, I haven't' she responded to my astonishment with 'oh, so you still can have intercourse with your wife'

It turned out to be unnecessary to explain I wasn't into women at all, let alone married to one; she didn't understand.
Like many lesbian MTF, bi and straight men refuse to believe I was never with a woman for the simple reason I'm not into women at all thus never 'tried'  too.

I felt violated on many occasions too...especially when ex straight/lesbian MTF turn out to be homophobic and calling MTF who are into men only 'sex change queers' etc....when I turned down their 'hitting on me'..
And yes, I've called a 'bigot' too when I turned down MTF and 'straight' men who turned out to be (fetish) tv's, cd's or even pre MTF themselves.

WTF?  I don't even know where to begin here. *facepalm*

MTFs seem to be pretty evenly split in sexual preference from my experiences, are quite feminine by nature more often than not, and do not act like men at all, whether gay or straight (and that's another stupid fat can of worms).  I've met a LOT of transwomen now, some may LOOK a bit masculine on the surface, but once you get talking, it's obvious you are interacting with a WOMAN.  And I don't want to know how you ended up encountering this unrepresentative sample of gender variants. /facepalm

Jill : Don't even begin. Dahlia repeats this same stuff every chance she gets, and while I accept it's what she sincerely believes, she's not gonna be talked out of it. I suppose her area must be filled with some awfully unrepresentative trans women.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on February 18, 2014, 06:22:33 PM
Jill : Don't even begin. Dahlia repeats this same stuff every chance she gets, and while I accept it's what she sincerely believes, she's not gonna be talked out of it. I suppose her area must be filled with some awfully unrepresentative trans women.

You know, she wasn't even on my radar until 30 minutes ago and didn't look at her history until just now. You should be able to see that red palmprint on my forehead from space now.

(Jill : I wish I could +1 posts. I only started to wonder when I noticed the wording seemed awfully familiar...)

Dahlia can't control herself. She'll roll out the big-headed, broad shouldered, hulking cowboy lingo any post now.

It sucks but everyone already knows that some people who say they are transsexual make it harder for everyone. And working on the PR in the mainstream media is to put in pretty faces that fit into the normal female world and make the rest of the US (my part of the world) more comfortable with the idea of us.

Quote from: Jill F on February 18, 2014, 06:32:36 PM
You know, she wasn't even on my radar until 30 minutes ago and didn't look at her history until just now. You should be able to see that red palmprint on my forehead from space now.

Prints!! In!! Spaaaaaace!

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 18, 2014, 10:49:11 AM
I think there are sexual fetishists in the trans* community. Sorry, I don't see why that's wrong to say. Every community has some of those types, and the trans* community has a loot, despite denying it has any.

At what point do we end the PC bandwagon? I say when you have people violating womens spaces and making a mockery of the experiences of trans* people who have struggled with dysphoria and are just looking to be comfortable in their own skin, the sacrifice of political correctness is that you're invalidating...frankly more genuine experiences.

I'm sorry, this cultish mentality, its not something I want to be apart of. Support and affirmation is good, but sometimes this community takes it a weird level of "trannies can do no wrong". And this post I'm going to stand by cuz I said nothing wrong.

I should add I've had experiences not unlike the OPs leaving me...disillusioned.

Yeah I totally agree on he cultish mentality part. It really turns me off sometimes. I'm me and sometimes when I hear we, our, us, it just gets to me. And I also agree with the whole "trannies can do no wrong" aspect of what you said. Sure they can, just like anyone else. In fact, sometimes it gets to me so much cause I'm a pretty demure person and I feel limped in with people I really have nothing in common with other than being trans. I doubt all gay men or people who like football, say us or we and take it to that level.

"people who have struggled with dysphoria and are just looking to be comfortable in their own skin, the sacrifice of political correctness is that you're invalidating...frankly more genuine experiences."

I couldn't agreee with this part anymore if I tried. I've always struggled and sometimes I feeel like people who have lived lives completely comfortable as a male think we have the same exact experience. And I  do feel for them and on some level, I relate. But can they relate to not being able to put on a mask? I hear all the time people put on this mask. I never received one. Being trans or gay or both seeped out of me like ooze out of a part wound. It could not be hid. I tried really hard in high school and I remember sitting at the lunch table with two of my friends, misty and stef, and we were talking about what we would be when we grew up and  about me they both said in unison: M____ is going to be a housewife! They weren't koking and then went all into what kind of dress I would wear to my wedding and stuff. I guess it didn't help that I said I am wearing a one with a princess neckline lol but sometimes here I feeel out of place.

At the same time, I doubt all trans women are like , if even many. But i'm sure some are and the boob talk on this board really gets to me and i never click on it. Sometimes I put my stats but that's just to help people who are wondering when they should see some growth and how much. Maybe I'm completely wrong,, but jussmoi4now's post really resonated with me and says a lot about how I feel. I mean if I could hide it, I prolly wouldnt transition, well maybe not, cause I love it o much and have sever dysphoria of every type: social, body, psychological.

Hope this didn't offend but it's how I feel. I mean I guess I'm lucky in that I pass really well. I wont be winning any beauty contests but no one sir's me ever. So I guess that gives me a different experience than someone who say does not pass and can't without FFS. I dont know. There are certainly trans women like the ones the OP talked about, however I recieved so much hate yesterday from some freak, who is a cis femamle lesbian, I think every group has these people. I also recieved really nice repsonses. But it taught me, cause I dont care, that really I just like men and should stick with it. Cause if a man said that I would still be crying and in bed.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes. lol

To the OP, so all trans women should be barred from using female restrooms? How do you enforce that? ID? I lost it. Sorry. Oh, I can't use the bathroom. What? The thing is I look almost completley female with breats and all and live as a female but because some people ruin it for the rest of us, I should be forced into a male rest room where I would be in extreme danger as I live in a bad area. I got propositioned three times today and whistled at. I felt really ugly last week, so it gave me some confidence, but being shoved into the male restroom, to be raped, again, is horrid. horrid. horrid. How is that looking out for everyone's safety. Or everyone's safety but mine. Sorry, I'm calling troll alert on you. You will think of a n answer to any questiona and I doubt this stuff happened to you, in the library no less. Lat time I talked in a library I got shushed. Librarians dont hesitate to use the shush and I am going to go to school to be one. Luckily I pass, and pass better everyday, so maybe this issue does not apply to me cause no one will know. I used the woman's room the other day and had conversatiosn with women and had zero problems and no bad looks.

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
Hello. I hesitated quite some time before deciding to share my situation hoping to come to a better understanding of the trans community. I hope I can express myself well enough to not be mistaken.

I'm struggling with a situation that comes as a culmination of all my contacts in life with mtf trans persons and the fact that they have all had elements of sexual inappropriate ness. I've been called a bigot for being upset  about what happened today. I came here searching for some answers and I guess to explain I should start at the beginning.

My first mtf contact was online several years ago. The person identified herself as a lesbian female. Over the course of a few weeks she kept slipping comments into conversations of a sexual nature. Not being interested I said so, but did not cut off contact due to recognizing that this person had some issues and could probably use a friend. Eventually cut off contact when it became clear that what was a level of sexual harrasment would not stop. Later learned of her preop mtf status.

Fast forward a few years, and I'm out in public at a library and a non passing mtf transexual (she identified as such which I knew due to the fact that it was written in glitter across her hat) sits across from me at the table. I look up and say hello politely and go back to my homework. After a minute or so she strikes up a conversation about the internet connection, then transitions it suddenly to a monologue about men not understanding women's needs sexually. Who does that with a stranger seriously?

Fast forward some more and in a strange public encounter another stranger, an mtf decides to walk up and ask me how their breasts look. Gape mouthed and stunned for a good 30 seconds I finally reply with "that's an awkward question" and walk away.

And finally today, a preop bottom mtf transgender in my health club locker room while I'm dressing, obviously sexually aroused.

All of these put together have created a downward spiral in my opinion of the community. I feel violated in the same way I do when a man passing by says nice rack or a lesbian friend doesn't respect my no answer. I feel angry for being characterized as a bigot for wanting to feel sexually safe.

And ultimately I'm left asking the question on Google that brought me yo this site, why are these mtf people I have met  all about sex. I've never had a cis female who was a stranger try to talk to me about sex or ask me to comment on their breasts. Most lesbians I've known have easily taken not interested for an answer and definitely didn't put their sexuality on display in vulnerable situations.

So all that being said,  the only theory I could come up with was that maybe this is the stereotypes an mtf comes to femininity with and doesn't understand the "circle" when it comes to discussing private things? Meaning friends may have conversations that invade personal space but its not just any other person of that gender.

So what am I missing here? Why do all my mtf interactions have this strange personal boundary issues? How do I support equality without having my own safety violated? And why is it not ok with the politically correct crowd for me to have an issue with an erection in proximity to my naked body without permission just because the owner identifies as fem?


-confused and... A lot of other things

If what you say happened in the health club locker room today, you should have called the police.  Not just reported it to the front desk.

We in the trans community do not put up with pervs any more than the cis community will put up with them.

Frankly, your story stinks like the Toronto newspaper report a few weeks ago.  And we have seen in the last  few months a number of bogus claims made against transgendered people in California, Colorado, and elsewhere.  These bogus claims are the result of an agenda against trans civil rights.  And many are aided and abetted by the disgusting radfem community.

Tell me the details of where, when, and what happened in this incident, and I will be happy to contact the police for you.

My email is in my profile.

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 18, 2014, 07:34:58 PM
If what you say happened in the health club locker room today, you should have called the police.  Not just reported it to the front desk.

We in the trans community do not put up with pervs any more than the cis community will put up with them.

Frankly, your story stinks like the Toronto newspaper report a few weeks ago.  And we have seen in the last  few months a number of bogus claims made against transgendered people in California, Colorado, and elsewhere.  These bogus claims are the result of an agenda against trans civil rights.  And many are aided and abetted by the disgusting radfem community.

Tell me the details of where, when, and what happened in this incident, and I will be happy to contact the police for you.

My email is in my profile.

thank you for some rationality

Quote from: Dahlia on February 18, 2014, 02:44:49 PM
Of course...since you're a cisman and most MTF are into women (only)
And the op is a ciswoman...quite a difference, isn't it?

I'd really quite.. prefer we stopped this notion that most MTFs are only into women. for a multitude of reaons.. But mostly because it's overly generalized and just wrong. And I feel there's this sort of judging undertone by saying "Most MTFs only in to women"

Quote from: stephaniec on February 18, 2014, 07:43:53 PM
thank you for some rationality

I don't think that it is really rational.. Mainly because she's posting it here. Not in some new paper editorial column, and asking the people that can actually hand her answers >_>

Quote from: Kelly-087 on February 19, 2014, 12:21:52 AM
I don't think that it is really rational.. Mainly because she's posting it here. Not in some new paper editorial column, and asking the people that can actually hand her answers >_>

Not sure what you mean.  What in my comment about the opening post was irrational?

(If the "she" in you post refers to me, look at the gender marker)

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 19, 2014, 12:41:18 AM
Not sure what you mean.  What in my comment about the opening post was irrational?

(If the "she" in you post refers to me, look at the gender marker)

The part where it clearly has to be a fake story because it reflected similar circumstances as fake stories.

I get your skepticism, I do. But honestly: Things of this nature WILL happen.

I feel like you just want to shut someone down who wanted, who honestly is curious about the rest of us and willing to learn of our own little community rather than writing us off as pervs.

I did not say it was a "fake story."  I said that it sounds like demonstrably bogus stories that have been circulating the past few months.  Stories that are agenda driven.

If the OP encountered a perv passing themselves off as trans, or who is trans, I want that person out of circulation, because it makes us all look bad.

I have been combating these very sorts of claims, none of which had any sort of corroboration, but are freely floated with the help of ideologues.  This community will not be tarred with innuendo and propaganda if I can help it.

The offer to the OP remains - give me the details and I will gladly report them for you.

So I spoke again today with management at my club. Actual management, not shift management as I had yesterday. This person clarified the policy they have which is inclusive for transitioned individuals, but prohibits exposure of biologically opposite gender due to the fact that the club serviced birth up. I am satisfied that this is a reasonable option. Gender neutral areas are available for those not comfortable with the locker rooms of their lower equipment gender . i was asked if I intended to pursue legal means and said no. The person in question was informed of the policy and the possibility of legal action should they choose not to abide by the rules.
They did not share the persons response. If you happen to hear of a trans right case coming out of Madison I suppose you'll know the other side of the story.

Questioning the situation (through Google) is what brought me here. The person (people if you look at the other incidents) did not harm me. I know through my profession that erections are not always a sexual response. The presence of a penis in the room was in and of itself the main problem. Likened to walking into an office and seeing a vibrator on the bosses desk that he states is for shoulder massage. It still makes the environment sexual regardless of honest intent.

As far as the rest... The negativity etc. . sighs. Cisfems like me who actually bother to ask the questions and try to understand your perspective are the only friends you have in the cisfem community. Might want to ponder that when reacting. I am neither radical feminist nor religious militant. I want to be safe myself first and foremost, and secondly want that for others as well (selfish, perhaps. But human)
I so not condone, support, or otherwise feel any satisfaction at assault on trans women. For those of you having experienced that, I am deeply sorry. Sad to say, but the fatalistic part of me thought as I read those stories "welcome to the club" and to what too often is the female experience

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 19, 2014, 01:14:39 AM
I did not say it was a "fake story."  I said that it sounds like demonstrably bogus stories that have been circulating the past few months.  Stories that are agenda driven.

If the OP encountered a perv passing themselves off as trans, or who is trans, I want that person out of circulation, because it makes us all look bad.

I have been combating these very sorts of claims, none of which had any sort of corroboration, but are freely floated with the help of ideologues.  This community will not be tarred with innuendo and propaganda if I can help it.

The offer to the OP remains - give me the details and I will gladly report them for you.

Interestingly enough the idea of legal action never even occurred to me. I reqd your comment earlier before speaking to a manager at the club. Maybe a weird part of my personality but while feeling violated in all of the circumstances I related, I never once sincerely believed someone was doing something to me intentionally. Assuming that the internet girl just had mental issues (she did which I won't get into), assuming that the two inappropriate conversationalists just really didn't get the boundaries, and that the last just had an uncontrollable physical response. With the caveat in the last case that the reaction when cilonfronted was less than understanding of anyone else's feelings which was intentional. Like, I'm entitled to wave my penis wherever I want.

Kia Ora Locome,

So now you have expressed your concerns and have received a number of responses, what will you take away from this encounter ? Are you 'more' or 'less' confused ?

Metta Zenda