I don't really identify with very many of these at all.  But here are two of my pet peeves with which I have a long, long, long history.

(1)  The strange, creepy random guys (and occasionally gals) from around the world who contact me with flirtatious messages.  This is nothing new.  Years ago, back when I used ICQ, it was really noticeable that guys from Turkey did this a lot.  Now I get these from the U.S, the U.K., Pakistan, the Philippines, basically anywhere.

(2)  I often wear a fake engagement ring to signal that I'm not on the market.  If some guy is a little too friendly, I employ creative body language to put it up where he can't possibly miss it.  Sometimes it works.  Sometimes not.  But why is it that the jewelry I'm employing to signal disinterest and unavailability actually is a signal that I belong to some other guy?  And why is it presumed that I'm fair game for any guy out there if I'm not wearing a sign that I belong to some other guy?  This too is a pet peeve that goes back years and years and years.  I want an I'm-not-looking-so-go-away-and-find-someone-else ring.  Even though it is fun when people get excited and start congratulating me.

Quote from: Pikachu on March 08, 2014, 07:50:55 PM
Wow, this is all so depressing to read through... Especially seeing that it depressed learningtolive. I hope it's never something she has to experience.

<sigh> I guess I turned this thread into another feminist rant. That wasn't my intention. I guess all I can say is that growing up female and being a young attractive woman really took it's toll on me. I never in a million years wanted to be that. Now I'm stuck trying to erase harmful and limiting messages from my brain. That's where all this is coming from. I finally realized that it's hard for me to move on with all this. I still feel like a body. I know I have other attributes, but I still deep down feel that nothing I do matters if I don't look good in a photo. Even as a guy. Because of the programming.

Hi,

Yes its good to remember what we have been through and how we have been treated in a totaly bad and down putting way,

yes we can be very down trodden and thought of as things to be used for mens own,

take the men out of our groups and we will still be running them we have a place in socity that men can not do with out take us out and then watch the chaos men are reliant on us , are we equal well no we are different and we bring different things with us what needs to happen is we share together,

im not equal to a man or men my body and mind is different, and we dont have to be equal we just need to be accepted for who we are and our gifts are not the same as men,

Womans day ..... no...... womans day is every day of our lives .when men realise we are just as importaint as men and they see in us what we have and bring then maybe we can all share together,

...noeleena...

Quote from: FA on March 08, 2014, 08:30:06 PM
<sigh> I guess I turned this thread into another feminist rant. That wasn't my attention. I guess all I can say is that growing up female and being a young attractive woman really took it's toll on me. I never in a million years wanted to be that. Now I'm stuck trying to erase harmful and limiting messages from my brain. That's where all this is coming from. I finally realized that it's hard for me to move on with all this. I still feel like a body. I know I have other attributes, but I still deep down feel that nothing I do matters if I don't look good in a photo. Even as a guy. Because of the programming.

I get you. Well...I don't know if I was ever the attractive part. Lol. But I've held on to stuff that has happened to me, ways people have made me feel...some gender related, some not. You know, I watched a video buy a guy a while back (wish I could remember his name...he's really tough looking lol), he was completely done his transition but he said his brain still held on to bad experiences he had. Like, as a woman, he said people often called him 'dyke', he feared for his safety sometimes, people looked at him like he 'had two heads' (his words) because he wasn't everything society told him a woman should be. He thought he was done with it but he discovered it was still a struggle.

Quote from: FA on March 08, 2014, 08:30:06 PM
<sigh> I guess I turned this thread into another feminist rant. That wasn't my intention. I guess all I can say is that growing up female and being a young attractive woman really took it's toll on me. I never in a million years wanted to be that. Now I'm stuck trying to erase harmful and limiting messages from my brain. That's where all this is coming from. I finally realized that it's hard for me to move on with all this. I still feel like a body. I know I have other attributes, but I still deep down feel that nothing I do matters if I don't look good in a photo. Even as a guy. Because of the programming.

Programming can be de-programmed and overwritten, hon. Nothing in one's mind is set in stone, and cannot be changed.

What you need to do is learn to acknowledge the times you were, and are, appreciated for what you do, and who you are, rather than how you look. It's hard, I know, when you've had years of conditioning drummed into you. Sometimes it feels hard-wired. But one way past this is to make a conscious effort to focus on the things and attributes you want to be seen for. Get into the habit of making note of them, writing them down. If you do something good for someone, and they show their appreciation, make a note of it and how it made you feel. More importantly make a note of what it was that you were appreciated for. What you did, or said.

The point is to give yourself a frame of reference you can look back on. A different way of being treated that you may otherwise totally overlook. By doing this, the more and more it happens, the more your mind starts to let go of old thought patterns which no longer apply, and adopt new ones more appropriate with who you are and how you want to live.

*gives FA a big, warm hug*

Sorry if I made it sound like I was blaming you in some way. I didn't mean it like that at all. There are plenty of things that still bother me a great deal that happened long ago, too. There's nothing wrong with expressing your frustration over them, and you weren't doing it in a negative way, I didn't think.

Quote from: Pikachu on March 08, 2014, 08:59:00 PM
*gives FA a big, warm hug*

Sorry if I made it sound like I was blaming you in some way. I didn't mean it like that at all. There are plenty of things that still bother me a great deal that happened long ago, too. There's nothing wrong with expressing your frustration over them, and you weren't doing it in a negative way, I didn't think.

Thanks hon. I think if I felt that way even as a more masculine identified girl, then tons of girls out there are probably feeling that way too. I'm not saying everyone got it as bad or the same as me. But I can't shake these issues. Maybe talking about it here has helped a little. I was reluctant. I mean, admitting this kind of thing doesn't look good. I mean, I'm a guy, I'm not supposed to be affected by women's issues.

Quote from: FA on March 08, 2014, 08:30:06 PM
<sigh> I guess I turned this thread into another feminist rant. That wasn't my intention. I guess all I can say is that growing up female and being a young attractive woman really took it's toll on me. I never in a million years wanted to be that. Now I'm stuck trying to erase harmful and limiting messages from my brain. That's where all this is coming from. I finally realized that it's hard for me to move on with all this. I still feel like a body. I know I have other attributes, but I still deep down feel that nothing I do matters if I don't look good in a photo. Even as a guy. Because of the programming.

I think the point of International Women's Day is to raise consciousness of feminist issues.  So what's wrong with starting a discussion of them?

We could probably have an interesting discussion thread about how programming from early in life affects trans* people long after transitioning.  I could see that being a good way to address some of the controversial topics that are occasionally whispered about around here . . . .

I do not self-identify as a feminist.  But it is interesting how I certainly have some complaints that fit within the category of issues that are usually thought of as feminist issues.  But the problem is that from my viewpoint, I think the way males are treated sucks too.  It's hard for me to buy into certain parts of a sort of pop-feminist view.  Although some feminists (e.g. Susan Faluddi) are aware of this, are concerned about it, and are starting to more critically examine ideas like male privilege.

I'd be really interested in seeing a version of this thread for the opposite side of the fence.

Quote from: FA on March 08, 2014, 09:10:53 PM
I mean, admitting this kind of thing doesn't look good. I mean, I'm a guy, I'm not supposed to be affected by women's issues.

And the idea that men should not be affected by women's lives seems like a feminist issue itself.

Eh, probably not my place to say anything here because I'm not a woman nor do I agree with feminists for the most part.

*hugs Calder, too*

That's okay. You already made a thread for International Women's Day. Besides, FA's not a woman, either. You're welcome to participate, if you'd like.

Quote from: Pikachu on March 08, 2014, 10:20:41 PM
*hugs Calder, too*

That's okay. You already made a thread for International Women's Day. Besides, FA's not a woman, either. You're welcome to participate, if you'd like.

I love women and I think everyone on this Earth should be equal but I think modern day feminism is very hypocritical and sexist towards men.

Quote from: Calder Smith on March 08, 2014, 10:32:34 PM
I love women and I think everyone on this Earth should be equal but I think modern day feminism is very hypocritical and sexist towards men.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of that type of feminism, too, unfortunately. It's why I tend to avoid the word altogether. Besides, I figure each group of people has their own problems. I feel like if I label myself a feminist, it makes me sound like I'm only concerned with one specific group's, and that just doesn't sit well with me.

Quote from: Calder Smith on March 08, 2014, 10:32:34 PM
I love women and I think everyone on this Earth should be equal but I think modern day feminism is very hypocritical and sexist towards men.

I've seen some of that too, but I'm saving that rant for the griping about men's issues thread that was promised. Although, it could technically fit here too since the topic of rape is generally seen as solely a feminist issue regardless of the fact that it is bad regardless of the gender of the victims or the perpetrators.

Quote from: FA on March 08, 2014, 09:10:53 PM
I mean, I'm a guy, I'm not supposed to be affected by women's issues.

I'd argue that everyone is affected by women's issues.

Western society/media makes women feel like they aren't a woman unless they are very beautiful. They spend all their money always achieving that perfection that they might not even reach and then become frustrated, angry, and fearful. Society only knows one kind of woman. It disregards the whole spectrum of women out there.

This video is very inspiring to me and I hope that it inspires you too! She looks great with the beard!

I was on the "Reclaim The Night" march on Friday.  We still need this sort of protest because women who go out alone are still likely to be assaulted.  Recent figures suggest two women are raped every week around here, and two men are convicted every year.

We didn't have much harrassment on the march.  That's "not much" - not "none".

Oh, and yes it is a "women only" event.  In Oxford it was clearly advertised as "Only for self identified women".  I was a steward, so making no attempt to keep a low profile.

oh geez.. is this new? 

I've never heard of this before.  Sounds to me like something facebook or the media recently made up. 

Don't get me wrong.  I love women (and wouldn't begrudge them all 365 days), but sometimes it all gets a bit insane with all these labeled months and days. 

Maybe its been being friends with/surrounded by women my whole life/in girl scouts for years and years that I've never really experienced anyone who is distinctly misogynistic that wasn't regarded as a complete fool, or some sort of old-fashioned joke of a person.  To me women being equal has always just been... well... obvious. 

Quote from: Calder Smith on March 08, 2014, 10:32:34 PM
I love women and I think everyone on this Earth should be equal but I think modern day feminism is very hypocritical and sexist towards men.

I also agree with this as well.  Not that I AT ALL transitioned to have male privilege, but as I slowly changed from a lesbian female to a straight male I felt actually more bias against me (esp. less scholarships/financial support available).  Maybe thats only in my small world though.  I'm sure on a larger scale (or if I was to run into some boys-club type of ->-bleeped-<-s) this can't be true, but it certainly feels that way sometimes.

anyway... go women!  sorry to shove my newly straight male opinions into this =p

Perhaps it's called "Take Back The Night" where you live.  In the last year for which we have figures, two women were raped every week in my city and two men a year were prosecuted.  I don't know what you mean by "distinctly misogynistic" but the police who decide it's not worth the bother of investigating rapes are bad enough in my view.

Quote from: MaryXYX on March 11, 2014, 12:00:34 PM
Perhaps it's called "Take Back The Night" where you live.  In the last year for which we have figures, two women were raped every week in my city and two men a year were prosecuted.  I don't know what you mean by "distinctly misogynistic" but the police who decide it's not worth the bother of investigating rapes are bad enough in my view.

We've had Take Back the Night for at least 5 years as I remember someone I know organizing it. I think it's been a thing for a while though.

-----

This is unrelated, but I remember one of the things I really hated about being female was how no one ever took you serious when you were angry. I've never had that experience as male yet because I've never expressed my anger, so I can't compare, but I noticed the dynamic in my family at least. One time my aunt was late getting home to make dinner and they're all like "omg you better get home or Uncle will be angry!" Whereas I'd raise my voice a little when a sibling or something insulted me, and they'd go "whoaaaaaaa" or laugh at me. Like seriously? You're tiptoing around a big baby who might get angry because he eats a half hour later, but you're going to mock me for having legitimate anger? Wtf is that?

Quote from: birkin on March 11, 2014, 04:17:44 PM
We've had Take Back the Night for at least 5 years as I remember someone I know organizing it. I think it's been a thing for a while though.

-----

This is unrelated, but I remember one of the things I really hated about being female was how no one ever took you serious when you were angry. I've never had that experience as male yet because I've never expressed my anger, so I can't compare, but I noticed the dynamic in my family at least. One time my aunt was late getting home to make dinner and they're all like "omg you better get home or Uncle will be angry!" Whereas I'd raise my voice a little when a sibling or something insulted me, and they'd go "whoaaaaaaa" or laugh at me. Like seriously? You're tiptoing around a big baby who might get angry because he eats a half hour later, but you're going to mock me for having legitimate anger? Wtf is that?

Really?  That's interesting.  My experience is more don't mess with an angry woman, at least with my family.  Nothing is funny about my sister or mother mad.  Yet, "the men" of the family were always more passive (myself included).  I guess we're the opposite family, lol.   

Quote from: MaryXYX on March 11, 2014, 12:00:34 PM
Perhaps it's called "Take Back The Night" where you live.  In the last year for which we have figures, two women were raped every week in my city and two men a year were prosecuted.  I don't know what you mean by "distinctly misogynistic" but the police who decide it's not worth the bother of investigating rapes are bad enough in my view.

I guess I meant really just misogynistic at all.. I guess I am surrounded by a pretty feminist group of people.  My best male friend was a gay women's studies major....... soooooo yea.

That is completely f-cked up though, and I'm sad to hear about it.  I'd definitely consider a legal system like that to be distinctly misogynistic.  There are certainly injustices in this world that need to be reconfigured, and brought to light for those people who don't see this issues with situations like that.  I'm glad there are people out there fighting against it.