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Can all the cis people PA-LEEZ stop misgendering trans people!

Started by Annaiyah, March 24, 2014, 11:39:12 AM

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Annaiyah

Forgive me as I'm about to go on a bit of a rant here, but there is just something I need to get off my chest.

I can't seem to read an article about a trans woman in the media without someone making a rude remark in the comment section saying, "Oh, she's still a man," or "that's not really a woman," and using male pronouns, blazay-blazay... It really makes me angry that people feel the need to do that, really, and I would love it if the ignorance would stop.

It really upsets me to see trans women being called men so just imagine how much it'll offend me if I get called a man. This, right here, is precisely why when my M2F transition is complete, I'm going to go stealth (for as long as I can) because I don't think I can take the anger of being called a "man" especially when I hate being a man.

So the whole misgendering trans people thing, saying transwomen are still men and transmen are still women, needs to stop, like, a decade ago, much more right now. Such articles are here:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4131174/fallon-fox-mma-science-transgender-fighting-athletes

http://necolebitchie.com/2014/02/07/transgender-author-janet-mock-explains-to-piers-morgan-why-referring-to-her-as-formerly-a-man-is-offensive/

Think about it this way:
By law, trans women are considered women, not men (except that stops when they have a run in with the law and then get put into men's jails, which too, needs to stop by the way).

In the case of female hormones on MtF people, hormones causes the male body to stop functioning as a male (i.e. loss of the ability to produce sperm, testis reduction, breast development, lactation ability, etc) and make the body more prone to functioning as female. In much the same way a FtM man taking male hormones make the female body more prone to functioning as a man's body than a woman's. Granted, male hormones cannot produce a penis on a woman but that brings me to my next point.

True, trans women (AS OF RIGHT NOW) cannot menstruate and conceive a child because the technology that could make that possible doesn't yet exist, just like trans men (AS OF RIGHT NOW) do not have functioning penises and testis that produce sperm because the technology that could make that possible doesn't yet exist. But as I said previously, despite that, trans women's bodies still function as women to some degree thanks to hormonal dosages in much the same way trans men's bodies still function as men to some degree thanks to hormonal dosages.

So if all the ignorant cis people really take the time they take addressing us by our formal gender to think about this a moment, they'll come to understand that trans women are no more men than they are elephants just like trans men are no more women than they are zebras (though it's kind of hard for me to be a lawyer to Thomas Beattie being that he's conceived a few of his own children to term).

Really, though, I'd rather be called "it" and trans phobic slurs than to be called a man and male pronouns.

If you guys have any more ways of supporting that trans women/men are still women/men, please do post them below.

If this post has offended anyone for any reason, I deeply and completely apologize, but I felt this topic needed to be addressed.
They say identity theft is a crime. Well, needless to say, a crime has been committed. My identity has been stolen. No, no one knows my social security number or has my credit card. I'm walking around in the wrong body. I'm wearing a costume which I cannot remove... and the only way I can remove that costume, is through surgery
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Nero

Well, if anything, trans women are not men. Even if according to someone's definition, they're not women. I don't have a male or female body anymore. I have a hybrid body. So, even if someone doesn't want to call me a man, I'm certainly not a woman anymore (well maybe chromosomally).
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Heather

Nobody can make anybody else call you what you want to be called. One of the first steps to being happy in transition is not listening to the people that don't like you. But listening to the ones that do. ;)
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blink

Heather's right. "Ignore all nay-sayers" is an unhealthy approach to life in general, but when it comes to gender dysphoria, it can be a very helpful defense mechanism.

Also helpful is knowing that the average person's concept of what constitutes a man or a woman, or even male or female, is a simplification that's convenient for everyday conversation, but isn't 100% accurate. Some people, though, are stuck with the idea that generalizations like "XY = male reproductive organs = man" and "XX = female reproductive organs = woman" are up there with "water is wet" and it's just not worth it to argue with someone like that.
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Miss_Bungle1991

Quote from: blink on March 24, 2014, 02:00:02 PM
"Ignore all nay-sayers" is an unhealthy approach to life in general

Nope.

I wake up everyday and I give the world the finger. I have no cares at all for the opinions of naysayers.
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blink

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on March 24, 2014, 02:24:58 PM
Nope.

I wake up everyday and I give the world the finger. I have no cares at all for the opinions of naysayers.
On any and every subject, all the time, every time? Even if it's on a subject that's a matter of demonstrable fact? To be clear, that's the kind of approach I meant.
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Paige

Quote from: Heather on March 24, 2014, 01:30:56 PM
One of the first steps to being happy in transition is not listening to the people that don't like you.

Hi Heather, 
It's very hard to ignore this hate.  If these people had their way, they would make it legal to discriminate against all LGBT people.  Many would like to follow Russia and Uganda and create laws to basically make it a crime to be LGBT.  Remember many of the ideas that spawned these laws came from evangelical Christians from the U.S.  I don't think it's wise to ignore such a threat.
Paige
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Heather

Quote from: Paige on March 24, 2014, 03:38:53 PM
Hi Heather, 
It's very hard to ignore this hate.  If these people had their way, they would make it legal to discriminate against all LGBT people.  Many would like to follow Russia and Uganda and create laws to basically make it a crime to be LGBT.  Remember many of the ideas that spawned these laws came from evangelical Christians from the U.S.  I don't think it's wise to ignore such a threat.
Paige
A misgendering hardly counts as hate. I've been misgendered before I don't like it but life goes on. How much they want to call me a man or sir they are not going to stop me from being me. And btw I'm tired of people labeling all Christians as hateful some of the kindest people to me have been Christians and I concider myself as a Christian myself. You can tell the real Christians from the fake ones because they show Christ's love through they're actions and they're words.
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Miss_Bungle1991

Quote from: blink on March 24, 2014, 03:21:39 PM
On any and every subject, all the time, every time? Even if it's on a subject that's a matter of demonstrable fact? To be clear, that's the kind of approach I meant.

Well, I don't really care anymore. I spent my whole life being stepped on and I will NOT allow that to happen anymore. The best defense is a good offense.
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Brandon

You can't really stop people from misgendering you, Not all non trans people are like that, Every last one of my friends see me as Brandon and only Brandon and as only a guy, And have never messed up on a pronoun, Even my teachers, You can't stop ignorance because the world is only going to even more cruel
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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Paige

Quote from: Heather on March 24, 2014, 04:43:50 PM
A misgendering hardly counts as hate. I've been misgendered before I don't like it but life goes on. How much they want to call me a man or sir they are not going to stop me from being me. And btw I'm tired of people labeling all Christians as hateful some of the kindest people to me have been Christians and I concider myself as a Christian myself. You can tell the real Christians from the fake ones because they show Christ's love through they're actions and they're words.

Hi Heather,
I didn't mean to offend you.  I have Christian friends too.  Some Christians are very nice people, some are manipulative nasty hypocrites.   Whether you consider the nasty ones fake doesn't really matter too much to them, they consider themselves the very real Christians.  All I'm saying is that these Taliban like people shouldn't be ignored.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/19/gay-revolution-scott-lively-_n_4988537.html

I would disagree with you about misgendering, sure it can be a forgivable mistake, but there are people who purposely misgender in a very hateful way.  As Annaiyah mentioned in the post that started this thread, comment sections are full of people misgendering on purpose.  I would classify this as hate.

I'm just worried about the backlash that seems to be developing around the world to LGBT people.
Paige
 
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Inanna

Quote from: FA on March 24, 2014, 11:52:02 AM
Well, if anything, trans women are not men. Even if according to someone's definition, they're not women. I don't have a male or female body anymore. I have a hybrid body. So, even if someone doesn't want to call me a man, I'm certainly not a woman anymore (well maybe chromosomally).

Agreed. 

As for chromosomes, they cannot define biology.  I think of it like this.  A house was built 100 years ago, renovated numerous times, added onto and taken away from, but the first rough draft of the blueprints were left in a closet the whole time.  That defines absolutely nothing about what the structure is now.
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Heather

Quote from: Paige on March 24, 2014, 10:12:45 PM
Hi Heather,
I didn't mean to offend you.  I have Christian friends too.  Some Christians are very nice people, some are manipulative nasty hypocrites.   Whether you consider the nasty ones fake doesn't really matter too much to them, they consider themselves the very real Christians.  All I'm saying is that these Taliban like people shouldn't be ignored.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/19/gay-revolution-scott-lively-_n_4988537.html

I would disagree with you about misgendering, sure it can be a forgivable mistake, but there are people who purposely misgender in a very hateful way.  As Annaiyah mentioned in the post that started this thread, comment sections are full of people misgendering on purpose.  I would classify this as hate.

I'm just worried about the backlash that seems to be developing around the world to LGBT people.
Paige

It may be me but some troll on the internet is hardly worth a moment of thought or consideration. Besides people hate on everybody just read anything and they will be at least one or two people hating on somebody or something. And anyways these same people won't misgender you to your face. And about the Christians it's funny how anybody who says they are Christian and says stuff people don't like everybody is quick to blame all Christians without any real proof they are living a Christ like life. It's like somebody claiming to be trans does something are we all to blame? That's the whole problem with labeling people and throwing them into a group.
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Tori

I misgendered myself the other day. Old habits die hard.

"Hi! I'm Tommy... or, Tori."

D'oh!


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Jason C

I think a lot of it is ignorance rather than hate or whatever, though, so education is the key. Like myself, I didn't know what pronouns you'd call someone who is transgender, I had no idea, that's why I started looking into it, because it occurred to me that if I met someone who's transgender, I might offend them without even meaning to. So yes, it does need to stop, and the main way of doing that is just by telling people. For those where it comes from hate or apathy, the best tactic is to learn to ignore it, because those are the idiots who just will not change.
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930310

I feel with you. I'm really tired of hearing people misgendering trans people everywhere. The news, the paper, internet, my family. They just don't seem to care a bit of how it makes the people they are mentioning feel.
HRT on and off since January 20, 2014
Diagnosed with GD: March 2018

https://www.youtube.com/user/930310
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Paige

Quote from: Heather on March 25, 2014, 12:13:13 AM
And about the Christians it's funny how anybody who says they are Christian and says stuff people don't like everybody is quick to blame all Christians without any real proof they are living a Christ like life. It's like somebody claiming to be trans does something are we all to blame? That's the whole problem with labeling people and throwing them into a group.

Hi Heather,
I think you need to re-read my posts if you think I was making a blanket statement about all Christians.  I was not, I'm sorry if you assumed I was.
Paige
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Berserk

Quote from: 930310 on March 25, 2014, 08:51:25 AM
I feel with you. I'm really tired of hearing people misgendering trans people everywhere. The news, the paper, internet, my family. They just don't seem to care a bit of how it makes the people they are mentioning feel.

I feel this way as well. Also more and more I care increasingly less about the "intent" of the misgendering. Whether it was "on purpose" or "ignorance" or "slip up"...it still ->-bleeped-<-ing hurts and feels like getting hit by a mac truck and doesn't make it hurt less whether someone "slipped up" or did it on purpose. Personally tired of making excuses for cis people.
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