I believe I was born trans because I had an overdose of testosterone in the womb that affected my brain, but did not affect my body. That's most certainly my mother's fault, although no one has control over what happens in their body.

Added mother too.
I don't believe in God and I don't think I am responsible for this.
I don't remember my parents consulting me before making me, but they did had a choice to stop. Now I'm afraid of both life and death, it would have been better if I didn't exist at all.
And if I say no one then it makes me think that I am weird.

I wasn't born in the wrong body. I was born in a trans* body.

You left out "Doctors and the pharmaceutical companies" in the list of options!

I'm trying to make trans folk aware of the link between medical treatment during pregnancy with synthetic hormones, and gender dysphoria in the exposed baby later in life.

It's a not widely known fact, but whether you develop as male or female isn't directly determined by your genes, it depends on whether there's testosterone present or not during your prenatal development. For decades, doctors have been administering high doses of synthetic female hormones (estrogens and progestins) to pregnant women, in an attempt to prevent miscarriages and premature births. The most notorious of these is the artificial estrogen DES, but there are others (ethinyl estradiol, and a number of different progestins). One property these synthetic female hormone derivatives all have is that they're highly effective at shutting down testosterone production in adult men (their main uses in adult men are for chemical castration of sex offenders and prostate cancer patients, and as part of MTF transgender HRT). Literally millions of pregnant women have been given these drugs in doses well beyond that required to shut down testosterone production in adult men, with most of the exposure occurring after genital development has completed but during the time most sexually dimorphic brain development seems to take place.

For the last 3 years I've been looking at the effects of DES on the "DES sons", and based on what I've seen there, hormone treatment to prevent miscarriage must be a major cause of MTF transsexuality, if not the main cause! Rates of MTF transsexuality appear to be hundreds of times higher among DES sons as among the male population as a whole, along with other problems such as intersex-related genital abnormalities, impaired fertility and hypogonadism. There's more about DES sons and transsexuality here:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,84224.0.html

Although I've mainly been looking at these drugs as a cause of MTF transsexuality (being MAAB myself, and it being easy to see how they could cause female brain development by blocking testosterone production), I've been told that there are quite high rates of FTM transsexuality among DES daughters, and several daughters have told me in person that they feel quite gender-blended (although not to the point where they want to transition).

If you look at this conversation:

http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20727&hl=

one of the participants, "JJ", is FTM, and DES-exposed.

Although I haven't pursued the FTM side of things, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if these substances can cause male brain development in a female fetus (more likely by making endogenous hormone production go haywire rather than as a direct effect of the drug itself). I think the evidence that DES caused high rates of MTF transsexuality is overwhelming, and it's just because nobody wants to admit to it that it's remained a secret for so long. Is there anyone here who'd be interested at looking at whether there's also a link with FTM?

Quote from: HughE on March 28, 2014, 01:24:59 AM
You left out "Doctors and the pharmaceutical companies" in the list of options! .....
Is there anyone here who'd be interested at looking at whether there's also a link with FTM?

I don't know how to put this in words so sorry if this offends but what you are talking about being trans and what I am is different.
I am saying about why I was born in the wrong body rather than why I think this body is wrong. That's the reason why I wrote "wrong body" and not "trans" because I wanted to be born not just as a cis person but as a cis male not female. It is better to be trans male for me than a cis female.

Quote from: HughE on March 28, 2014, 01:24:59 AM
I've been told that there are quite high rates of FTM transsexuality among DES daughters, and several daughters have told me in person that they feel quite gender-blended (although not to the point where they want to transition).

Interesting!

My mother had a miscarriage a few months before I was conceived. I have no way of knowing whether she was prescribed DES... but from what I can see, it was in use here in the UK right up until the year I was born. So there's a good chance that she was prescribed it following her miscarriage to ensure she didn't lose her next pregnancy.

Sadly, I can't ask her, because she's no longer with us... but it does make me wonder. Thank you for giving me a new avenue to explore.

That is really interesting, my mom had a miscarriage before having me also, not sure if she was prescribed this drug, but might have since she had a miscarriage before. I also think something went wrong in the womb, I have a half brother from my old man and the miscarriage should of been a boy....sooo I think something went haywire in there lol

I don't really blame anyone. As someone stated before, all it will do is lead me into an emotional storm of self pity, and life is too short for something like that. If there is a 'God' then I think 'God' made me this way so I could develop as a better man and the way to do that was for be to be born with a female body.

Well, what I am saying is, yes I really do wish I was born a cis man, but if I had I would not have the wonderful daughter I have today and I am pretty sure I would not have learned the things in life as I have. I can proudly say that I like who I am, despite all my kinks and flaws

Being born trans is just another defect in a long list of birth defects that happen. Trying to assign blame after the fact is pointless.

Sure, there are external conditions that can cause it too, like the DES drug that hughe mentioned. I think it is probably a worthwhile effort for some people to research their family history to see if there are any factors that could have contributed, but at the end of the day you have to accept that sometimes it just happens.

A better question if you are trans* is how are you going to handle it?

Maybe I am not clear what exactly "trans" means plz guide
Is it being born in a body that you did not wish, and wanted to be like the other gender?
Or is it not liking the body in which you were born?
What I have written seems confusing to me

One precept of a question is that it can be answered. The answer may not be immediately forthcoming and that is what science is based upon.

By study we can find an answer.

By saying that it is also implicit that the answer is important. Yes why GI are born is important to find out, do we can identify and help GI people in the future.

Why we, were born GI is not in my opinion important. It is in fact irrelevant. We were.

Laying blame for anything in life is a basically useless exercise.
In the case of being transgender the blame that my brothers or sisters wish to place on some entity is a fruitless exercise. It will not and cannot result in an outcome.

If it was the wicked witch in a pointed hat, so what?

I still have to deal with it.

Being able to lay blame is not a useful exercise; it will not advance you.

To be very brutal, we know why people in Hiroshima have a high incidence of leukemia and cancer. Does it help them? Or does understanding how to treat their condition help them?

Now that I think of it....my mom also had a misarriage before she had me....

Sometimes I wish I had been born a cis-male.  Sometimes I wish I never existed.  Being born like this has given me so many bad experiences and royally screwed me up (certain things happened because "I was a girl" that no one should go through) and now I get to pick up the pieces- or what's left of them anyways.  But at the same time... I've survived.  I've conquered and am conquering. I've been forced to be a warrior when I'm nothing more than a wimp.  I'm what I am today because of all these bad experiences. It is what it is. There's no changing the past, there's no regret, it just is what it is.  I could blame my parents.  I could definitely blame God.  But... nothing will change things now.  I hate to be cheesy but, I gotta quote this. 
"I wish none of this had happened."
"So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

I agree with the assessment of Cindy (and others) that placing blame is a useless thing that produces no good in the slightest. There are even things which have a blame attached (for instance, getting low grades in school) but placing blame wouldn't help anyway. What you'd need to do is change your behavior, which takes work. I don't even think that placing blame makes people feel better. I'd be all for placing blame wrongly on your trans status if it actually helped you feel better about yourself in some way. But I don't think that this works like that.

--Jay

Quote from: av1 on March 28, 2014, 09:53:34 AM
Maybe I am not clear what exactly "trans" means plz guide
Is it being born in a body that you did not wish, and wanted to be like the other gender?
Or is it not liking the body in which you were born?
What I have written seems confusing to me

Trans - "on the other side of."  --Transgender is not identifying with the gender you were physically born as.  This includes the range of the community, MtF, FtM, genderqueer, androgyne, etc.  To answer your question simplistically, yes.  Trans is being born in the wrong gendered body, and wanting to be physically the gender you identify as.  Transwomen (MtF) are women born in male bodies.  Transmen (FtM) are men born with female bodies.  Transitioning serves to correct this.

cis - "on the same side of." -- being born physically the gender they identify as.  ciswomen are women born with female bodies.  Cismen are men born with male bodies.  No need to transition to correct anything.

well i believe in karma and rebirth so most probably it's my own fault. i must have done something terribly bad in a past life. but that doesn't mean i should sit and regret it for the rest of my life. whatever i did i've been good enough to be born human, so i must make the best out of this human life. challenges are there to overcome. even if it comes the hard way i shall receive the goodness in life to the degree i deserve. but to receive it i must move ahead and try. without trying i won't know what lies ahead of me waiting for my arrival eh?

That'd be like asking whose fault it was that a child got a cleft lip. Sometimes things go wrong. It's not anyone's fault, it's just the way life is sometimes.

Quote from: Cindy on March 28, 2014, 10:18:12 AM
One precept of a question is that it can be answered. The answer may not be immediately forthcoming and that is what science is based upon.

By study we can find an answer.

By saying that it is also implicit that the answer is important. Yes why GI are born is important to find out, do we can identify and help GI people in the future.

Why we, were born GI is not in my opinion important. It is in fact irrelevant. We were.

Laying blame for anything in life is a basically useless exercise.
In the case of being transgender the blame that my brothers or sisters wish to place on some entity is a fruitless exercise. It will not and cannot result in an outcome.

If it was the wicked witch in a pointed hat, so what?

I still have to deal with it.

Being able to lay blame is not a useful exercise; it will not advance you.

To be very brutal, we know why people in Hiroshima have a high incidence of leukemia and cancer. Does it help them? Or does understanding how to treat their condition help them?

Sorry, I have to disagree with you there! I think there are plenty of reasons why it is important to know what causes transness.

* I think it makes a massive difference to both you and those around you to know that you're not crazy and that what's happened to you isn't a purely psychological condition; that something happened during your prenatal development that physically altered the structure of your brain and gave you a "brain sex" that doesn't match your biological sex. I also think it would vastly improve public attitudes towards trans people in general if the full facts come out about what happened with DES.

* if one synthetic hormone can cause transness, then the likelihood is that others can too. While I don't see anything wrong with being trans, it causes a lot of difficulties later in life, a need for ongoing medical treatment, and of course has a high associated mortality rate (from suicide, alcohol and drug abuse, and a general tendency towards self destructiveness). If there's any possibility that some of the miscarriage treatments still in current use are also causing transsexuality, then that needs to be addressed!

* for natal DES daughters in particular, it's important to know about it if you were exposed, because you're at increased risk of vaginal, cervical, breast and ovarian cancer, and you should be having regular screening for cancer above and beyond what most natal women receive.

* the whole system for dealing with gender variant people is geared towards transition and gender reassignment. People like me, who've got some elements of male and some of female, aren't catered for. I know perfectly well that I'm not a woman, but one thing that worries me is that people similar to myself might end up being railroaded into SRS when it's not the most appropriate way of dealing with their situation.

* one common effect of these prenatal hormone exposures seems to be that your body's ability to control hormones later in life is impaired. While you're young your body seems to be able to compensate for this reasonably well, but as you get older there's an increasing likelihood of endocrine-related health problems and infertility. Among the DES daughters I've chatted with, two things I've seen mentioned a lot are PCOS and premature menopause, while hypogonadism and infertility seem to be very common experiences among DES sons. If you've had one of these hormone exposures, you'd be well advised to have any children you're planning on having sooner rather than later! You should also be aware that most doctors don't have the first clue when it comes to hormones, and get around this problem by refusing to diagnose or treat endocrine-related disorders in their patients. I'm not sure about the long term effects of untreated PCOS in natal women, but untreated hypogonadism in natal males (once it gets to the point where you develop the symptoms of acute hypogonadism, such as depression, loss of sex drive etc), will completely destroy your quality of life as well as setting you up for all sorts of health problems in old age.

Just to be a douche I said "you" but in truth I have too little evidence in any direction to attempt to determine a cause.  I don't think its anything new (ie its not caused by doctors and pharmaceutical companies).  Trans/genderless identities have popped up throughout history. 

Is it genetically hardwired into us regardless of our fetal environment?  or is it dependent on some sort of hormone levels or something else in your mother?  Who can say.  Its one of those I'd wager, because many trans people know they're the opposite gender prior to knowing what that may mean. 

I don't dare wager as to the existence of any gods or their activity in the creation of the universe or human kind.

I answered "No One".

Honestly...I don't even care HOW it happened. It's a waste of time worrying about/debating the "How's".

Screw that.

Doing something about it is a much better idea.

I've done what I could do and I've went from there.

What happened in the past doesn't matter. What is going on NOW is far more important.