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What's the point in transitioning if you can't transition really young? rant. tw

Started by sad panda, April 19, 2014, 08:43:30 PM

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Mermaid

This thread is full of negativity and doesn't really seem logical.

Uhm... What do you think you'd be doing if you were 15 or 16? Probably on YouTube, or playing videogames, or studying, or whatever... It's seriously overrated to be a teenager, specially in this new age where there's so much entertainment indoors that it's pointless to go outside.

I struggled with dysphoria when I was a child, but I didn't have it much as a teen. I had feminine leanings but got away with wearing make-up, shaving my legs, having long hair, so I don't really feel like I missed all that much during my teenage years... I can't think of a single girl that I was jealous of while I was a teenager. They seemed boring, quiet, shallow and introverted, whereas guys would laugh a lot more and seem lively.

I grew up with a pretty big group of friends, both boys and girls hanging out together. We identified with punk/metal stuff, so there were plenty of things we could get away with and I didn't feel that much of a difference between boys and girls' "roles". We went to see music shows together, we went to clubs and bars... and those were the most interesting "social events" we had. Nothing stopping me from doing that now. Is it sleepovers with girls that you miss? I don't know if they're all that cool, I had sleepovers with the guys and we didn't even talk about girls... more like getting into trouble and doing fun stuff.

Facebook didn't exist back then but we had other social networks (hi5 and myspace)... I don't recall ever complimenting a girl or initiating a relationship, but they did, so it was like the gender roles didn't exist? I got to look good and didn't care what other people looked like, I did what I wanted with both guys and girls, being loud, being childish, pranking school staff, getting grounded (got expelled from one school at 14), so I really can't see the appeal in being a teenage girl over a teenage boy. Hell, we even wore the same things... Converse shoes, ripped jeans and a black shirt or hoodie. Guys don't even care all that much about you at that age, sorry to say, so relationships are pretty dull and futile. I wouldn't go back to live as a girl... I want to date men, not boys.

You have no freedom, you depend on your parents... if you feel like you can't express yourself in your 20s and only care for being younger than that, then I think you'd be living a pretty boring life. Dysphoria only hit me later, to be honest, once that group of friends kind of washed away and we all found ourselves living apart and in different colleges. There's when I first started to notice gender roles, not as a teenager. I cut my hair to blend in, I started having to dress in more formal clothing, people looked like men and women, not boys and girls... so that sucked. I only started feeling like I was a sexual being at that age, so it was also bad... I realised I didn't want to feel "male" in a relationship, I fell in love with a straight guy, and well... that set it all off. That's when I started to be jealous of women (regardless of their age). But during teenagehood I didn't really feel it... I didn't care for what I was, I didn't feel like a girl or a boy, I felt like me. That's still what I feel like... I feel like me... But I don't think that I can blend into society and be me while living as a male, because I started being unable to relate to people around me, I became an introvert, fell into depression... and decided to transition.

The grass is always greener on the other side, but being a teenage girl can't be all that different from being a teenage boy. You're trying to find yourself, you don't know what you want, you like getting attention... Maybe it's a cultural thing? Like, there's 3 times more MtFs in the US than FtMs, but out here there's 3 times more FtMs than MtFs. Maybe gender roles are more of a thing over there, I don't know... I feel like I'm missing out on my life now, I feel like these are my good years, but as a teenager not really, was pretty oblivious to what gender roles even were, lol.
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Lauren5

Quote from: SammyRose on April 19, 2014, 09:01:13 PMJust something which I've noticed, it's the younger transitioners that seem to have the hardest time of it ( except in physical change ).
In terms of finances and job stability, yeah, for sure. That's definitely an issue for me and the vast majority of other young transitioners. I've got to figure out how to pay for prescriptions and how to save on surgery with little to no income, and that's not including basic needs, like you know, eating? (fortunately that's taken care of by a meal plan that is paid for by dad, along with the rest of the school fees, but everything else is up to me, and there's only so much one can make in a summer at minimum wage, making it last all year while still having some money set aside for surgery is very very difficult, especially at our young, impulsive ages.)
Hey, you've reached Lauren's signature! If you have any questions, want to talk, or just need a shoulder to cry on, leave me a message, and I'll get back to you.
*beep*

Full time: 12/12/13
Started hormones: 26/3/14
FFS: No clue, winter/spring 2014/15 maybe?
SRS: winter/spring 2014/15?
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sad panda

Quote from: Mermaid on April 20, 2014, 02:37:01 AM
This thread is full of negativity and doesn't really seem logical.

Uhm... What do you think you'd be doing if you were 15 or 16? Probably on YouTube, or playing videogames, or studying, or whatever... It's seriously overrated to be a teenager, specially in this new age where there's so much entertainment indoors that it's pointless to go outside.

I struggled with dysphoria when I was a child, but I didn't have it much as a teen. I had feminine leanings but got away with wearing make-up, shaving my legs, having long hair, so I don't really feel like I missed all that much during my teenage years... I can't think of a single girl that I was jealous of while I was a teenager. They seemed boring, quiet, shallow and introverted, whereas guys would laugh a lot more and seem lively.

I grew up with a pretty big group of friends, both boys and girls hanging out together. We identified with punk/metal stuff, so there were plenty of things we could get away with and I didn't feel that much of a difference between boys and girls' "roles". We went to see music shows together, we went to clubs and bars... and those were the most interesting "social events" we had. Nothing stopping me from doing that now. Is it sleepovers with girls that you miss? I don't know if they're all that cool, I had sleepovers with the guys and we didn't even talk about girls... more like getting into trouble and doing fun stuff.

Facebook didn't exist back then but we had other social networks (hi5 and myspace)... I don't recall ever complimenting a girl or initiating a relationship, but they did, so it was like the gender roles didn't exist? I got to look good and didn't care what other people looked like, I did what I wanted with both guys and girls, being loud, being childish, pranking school staff, getting grounded (got expelled from one school at 14), so I really can't see the appeal in being a teenage girl over a teenage boy. Hell, we even wore the same things... Converse shoes, ripped jeans and a black shirt or hoodie. Guys don't even care all that much about you at that age, sorry to say, so relationships are pretty dull and futile. I wouldn't go back to live as a girl... I want to date men, not boys.

You have no freedom, you depend on your parents... if you feel like you can't express yourself in your 20s and only care for being younger than that, then I think you'd be living a pretty boring life. Dysphoria only hit me later, to be honest, once that group of friends kind of washed away and we all found ourselves living apart and in different colleges. There's when I first started to notice gender roles, not as a teenager. I cut my hair to blend in, I started having to dress in more formal clothing, people looked like men and women, not boys and girls... so that sucked. I only started feeling like I was a sexual being at that age, so it was also bad... I realised I didn't want to feel "male" in a relationship, I fell in love with a straight guy, and well... that set it all off. That's when I started to be jealous of women (regardless of their age). But during teenagehood I didn't really feel it... I didn't care for what I was, I didn't feel like a girl or a boy, I felt like me. That's still what I feel like... I feel like me... But I don't think that I can blend into society and be me while living as a male, because I started being unable to relate to people around me, I became an introvert, fell into depression... and decided to transition.

The grass is always greener on the other side, but being a teenage girl can't be all that different from being a teenage boy. You're trying to find yourself, you don't know what you want, you like getting attention... Maybe it's a cultural thing? Like, there's 3 times more MtFs in the US than FtMs, but out here there's 3 times more FtMs than MtFs. Maybe gender roles are more of a thing over there, I don't know... I feel like I'm missing out on my life now, I feel like these are my good years, but as a teenager not really, was pretty oblivious to what gender roles even were, lol.

Yeah well I don't know. Maybe I see it differently bc I became a teenager and got boring, shallow and introverted. Nope, I really didn't appreciate it at all. I was too busy hating everything. And yeah, I dreamed of getting old enough to get away from my parents. It's not even like I think it would be different if I did it again... I mean in terms of how I felt about it, but I missed the experiences that make it what it is. FWIW I didn't think about gender roles much then either. Not really until I was 14 or 15, and even then all I remember thinking about was why I never seemed to get along with boys.

But when the freedom of owning my life hit me? I realized that I couldn't handle it anyway. I feel like there's unfinished business in those years... y'know... I have bars to sneak into, I have friends to fight constantly with, drugs to experiment with, I have straight guys to fool around with and they'll kill me if I ever tell anyone? ... or whatever experiences, idk, I was gonna say different things but then I remembered that I was a boy then. Anyway... just the continuation of being younger than that, and the stuff I needed to have done to know where and who I am now in what could be the best years or whatever. Instead I'm still just... lost. And completely underwhelmed.

So part of this is unique to me. But I guess you could ask the OP question as, why trade 60 privileged years for 10 or so underprivileged years and then 50 seriously underprivileged years? You can be femme as a boy. Just get a job in a feminine industry. People love gay makeup artists. People love gay stylists and fashion designers and decorators and stuff. They still get male privilege and cis privilege and they still can basically be who they are.

Instead I'm a girl and now I'm living those crappy teen years indefinitely except I'll stop looking like it at some point. I don't know what the satisfaction in being a girl is anyway. At best I'm a career groupie. At best I am arm candy. Minus the structure and some kinda future of being a teen. At worst I'm trans, depressed and suicidal, powerless, and pretty soon if not already unwanted to boot.

Am I being negative? Yeah, cause the reality is negative..... it is. Just because you can be positive about it doesn't mean it isn't awful. I can't think of too many minorities worse to be than being trans AND a woman, especially once you get old. Older trans women can deal with it because they got the legwork in their life done as a man. That is so different. So why is it worth it? I guess I'm not really trans or something, I don't know. I don't get gender anyway, I'm just stuck in it. :(

I mean, maybe it's a little better at this age if you had pretty definite teen years to figure yourself out, but you're still pre-transition right? Idk, just try it and see I guess... You're gonna change. A alot. Good luck out there babe. :c

By the way, I transitioned after I fell for a straight guy too. I was so naive lol. Before that I never took it seriously. I thought it was a ridiculous idea, now it's my reality, it's so real and nothing can undo it or make it what I wanted it to be...  :-\
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Kimberley Beauregard

I'm not sure to what degree my perspective will help anyone since I never really had gender dysphoria.

But at 25, I still feel young.
- Kim
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sad panda

Quote from: Kimberley Beauregard on April 20, 2014, 03:17:17 AM
I'm not sure to what degree my perspective will help anyone since I never really had gender dysphoria.

But at 25, I still feel young.

Well your thing says you are pre-everything.

I don't think you'll feel young when you are living as a girl. 25 is not young in girl years.
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HoneyBunny

Quote from: sad panda on April 20, 2014, 03:25:12 AM
Well your thing says you are pre-everything.

I don't think you'll feel young when you are living as a girl. 25 is not young in girl years.

So true.


our bodies go to heck after 30. That means I got like 7 years to enjoy life before I start to fall off.
We're born naked, and the rest is drag.
-RuPaul
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Tori

Quote from: sad panda on April 20, 2014, 03:25:12 AM
Well your thing says you are pre-everything.

I don't think you'll feel young when you are living as a girl. 25 is not young in girl years.

Tell me more, Nostradomus.


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Kimberley Beauregard

Quote from: sad panda on April 20, 2014, 03:25:12 AM
Well your thing says you are pre-everything.

I don't think you'll feel young when you are living as a girl. 25 is not young in girl years.

I suppose not.  But that might be because by the time I start to transition - and with my current situation, IF I decide to transition - I'll be at that age where I start feeling old.  Maybe late twenties and thirties?  25 is still relatively young for me, even though I don't do the things I did in my late teens.
- Kim
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Mermaid

Quote from: sad panda on April 20, 2014, 03:25:12 AM25 is not young in girl years.

There's not that many differences between a 20-22 year old girl and a 28 year old one... I find that I'm always completely off when trying to guess people's age. It depends more on what you dress than on what your face or body looks like... I've been surprised many times by girls who I think are my age, then they tell me they're 26 or 27.

Age is very relative, even for guys. A guy who lost hair after puberty is going to look much worse than a guy who's like 32 and has a head full of hair.

You look good for as long as you look good, it's genetics, people don't have expiration dates.

I can't help but think it's a little silly to come on a support site for transgender people and hear people say 25 is an old age... it's just... absurd? You can't measure stuff like this. People either look good or they don't.
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Kimberley Beauregard

I work alongside a 27-year-old woman.  I thought she was early twenties when I first met her.
- Kim
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sad panda

I didn't say 25 can't pass for 20... it's not young though.... I would be pretty surprised to meet a 25 y/o cis girl who didn't feel old..
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Tori

Quote from: sad panda on April 20, 2014, 03:44:38 AM
I didn't say 25 can't pass for 20... it's not young though.... I would be pretty surprised to meet a 25 y/o cis girl who didn't feel old..

Surprise yourself.

:)


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FalseHybridPrincess

Thank god I dont have that age dysphoria thing
Im 19 , im young!
and I will be young even when I reach 30 or something,even 40
60 is old
25 isnt

lol
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
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Tori



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Mermaid

Quote from: sad panda on April 20, 2014, 03:44:38 AMI would be pretty surprised to meet a 25 y/o cis girl who didn't feel old..

Well, that's their problem. I don't measure what I'm worth by putting myself up against other people and making comparisons, wondering how much happier I'd be if I were them.

While you're at it, I would be surprised to find any girl of any age who's never felt ugly. Teenage girls in particular must have it bad.

People who aren't insecure are rare. People are stupid, they just are. They're not individuals, they're impressionable masses with no self-esteem that only feel validated when someone else does it for them, hence this age thing. I mean, seriously, if you don't like who you are or what you look like, how would a number change how you feel about yourself? We're talking about 4 year gaps here and whatnot. You're not rotting, you're aging. It's a slow process, it doesn't happen overnight... or in a year, or two... It takes decades.

Most girls aren't attractive. Most girls aren't young and those that are don't stay young forever. I think the problem is in our way of living nowadays... we spend so much time detached from the real world and being exposed to unrealistic notions of beauty on TV and the internet, that we don't realise that nobody's perfect, even those who're made out to be. Get out there and look around, nobody's perfect.
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katiej

Ok...a little perspective is needed here.  A bunch of people in their late teens and early 20's talking about being old, and saying that 25 is too old to transition.  Seriously?

A while back I was talking to my dad and realized that I'll be his age 40 years from now.  He's 74, he just moved to Mexico cause he wanted to, he travels like a crazy person, takes up new hobbies, and is constantly finding new adventures.  And he's still not done yet.  That's when I realized that life is only short when you're looking back.  Looking ahead, life is long.  And a lot will happen in 40+ years.

Panda, I get that you feel a sense of loss.  But those of us who choose to be positive aren't denying the tough position the universe put us in.  We're just choosing to make the best of it and move on instead of dwelling in the pain and letting it cripple us.

Sometimes I wish I had transitioned earlier in life.  But I've still got a lot of living to do.  So I can wallow in self pity, or I can enjoy what time I have left.  I choose the latter.

"Before I do anything I ask myself would an idiot do that? And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." --Dwight Schrute
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sad panda

Quote from: Mermaid on April 20, 2014, 03:59:38 AM
Well, that's their problem. I don't measure what I'm worth by putting myself up against other people and making comparisons, wondering how much happier I'd be if I were them.

While you're at it, I would be surprised to find any girl of any age who's never felt ugly. Teenage girls in particular must have it bad.

People who aren't insecure are rare. People are stupid, they just are. They're not individuals, they're impressionable masses with no self-esteem that only feel validated when someone else does it for them, hence this age thing. I mean, seriously, if you don't like who you are or what you look like, how would a number change how you feel about yourself? We're talking about 4 year gaps here and whatnot. You're not rotting, you're aging. It's a slow process, it doesn't happen overnight... or in a year, or two... It takes decades.

Most girls aren't attractive. Most girls aren't young and those that are don't stay young forever. I think the problem is in our way of living nowadays... we spend so much time detached from the real world and being exposed to unrealistic notions of beauty on TV and the internet, that we don't realise that nobody's perfect, even those who're made out to be. Get out there and look around, nobody's perfect.

Well, it's bad enough when you feel bad about yourself, but when you hit 30ish and stop being valuable to other people too it's got to hurt. As a young girl, yeah, chances are you feel ugly but you might at least know somebody wants you.... in your 30s and beyond, well hopefully you have kids to be needed by or a really exciting lifestyle, or you'll probably be feeling pretty empty.
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katiej

Quote from: sad panda on April 20, 2014, 04:14:54 AM
Well, it's bad enough when you feel bad about yourself, but when you hit 30ish and stop being valuable to other people too it's got to hurt. As a young girl, yeah, chances are you feel ugly but you might at least know somebody wants you.... in your 30s and beyond, well hopefully you have kids to be needed by or a really exciting lifestyle, or you'll probably be feeling pretty empty.

Younger people usually think life ends at 30.  They're wrong.  I'm 36, and in my experience it isn't even remotely true.  In some ways, life gets a lot better.

Panda, life is what you make it.  If you don't try to do anything because you're expecting bad things to happen...you'll be right.  But if you go after the things you want, it won't always work out, but you'll reach your goals way more often than if you don't try at all.
"Before I do anything I ask myself would an idiot do that? And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." --Dwight Schrute
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kelly_aus

Quote from: sad panda on April 20, 2014, 04:14:54 AM
Well, it's bad enough when you feel bad about yourself, but when you hit 30ish and stop being valuable to other people too it's got to hurt. As a young girl, yeah, chances are you feel ugly but you might at least know somebody wants you.... in your 30s and beyond, well hopefully you have kids to be needed by or a really exciting lifestyle, or you'll probably be feeling pretty empty.

And how the hell would you know?

I'm the wrong side of 30 and my life is more fullfilling and happier than it's ever been. I don't have kids, and my lifestyle is not super exciting. What I do have in my life is a bunch of peolpe who calculcate my worth based upon my personaility and character, not just my looks.

Although I don't know why I bother to say any of this, you'll just dismiss it as the ramblings of an old person demented by the passage of time.
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