I'm really sorry if this isn't the place for this post but i feel like i need to just vent and let my anger out.

Some of you may or may not be familiar with his website or contacted him in the past but person ran the now-defunct website called "other site" or something like that. I discovered that site back in early 2011, seeing that it helped quite a few trans people, so i decided to email person for help, thinking he could help me too.

Maaaaannnnnn! *nods sadly* I could not've been more wrong.

Let's start with the basics:

First his site FORBIDS transitioning and a long list of reasons why people shouldn't, then he goes on and on to me about how he's been a much happier person since he converted to Christianity and talked me into doing the same. What got me sucked in was that he told me that in Heaven, i can have absolutely anything that i want to be happy, including being a woman and having babies but then only for him to tell me later how much i won't care about being a man, woman, or genderless because i will be too.busy enjoying and receiving God's love to care! I even told him several times that i don't care if going to Heaven and bring with God is better than being a woman and having babies.

The amazing thing is that my hated toward God for giving me a male body and that i hate being male, seems to override anything person or anyone could ever tell me about God.

My reason for transitioning is because it's the only way (other than suicide) i can find any amount of happiness in my life, and i don't like the gender God assigned me at conception. I'm not transitioning to disrespect God and God knows that. If that's not God's will, too bad. It should've thought twice about giving me a male body.

And even if God does have a problem with me transitioning then that's It's own fault for giving me a male body in the first place! In which case that's between me and God only! To Hell with any excuse any anti-transition Christian has to offer on the matter!

Oh, that's not it! I lied about being in RCIA out of fear that we would stop talking and i would have nobody to argue with about why i should/shouldn't be mad at God.

I allow for my fear of going to Hell for transitioning scare me no longer! I am finally transitioning because it makes ME happy and there is not a God up in Heaven who will damn me to Hell for it. Anyone who has a problem with me becoming a woman that can go to Hell!

Seriously! The son of a bitch is lucky I'm not disclosing his actual name! So you're welcome... J.C.!

He's also been giving me this nonsense that i should thank God for the suffering I'm going through now because i know i will when i get to Heaven. Like Hell! Like bloody Hell! I don't care if God was acting in my highest good by not making me female. I'd spit in God's face for not making me female, even if it did it "for my own good!"

After all, you know what they say: How much sharper than a serpent's tooth is a FAITHLESS, THANKLESS CHILD?!?!

I'm utterly sick of being told the "God knew what he was doing by making you male," and the "God doesn't make mistakes," b/s otherwise i wouldn't be transitioning.

Another thing:
person was so hellbent on convincing me that there is no reincarnation, everytime i mention wanting to come back reincarnated as female. Let me tell y'all something...

If i really wanted to believe in reincarnation, i would convert to Buddhism, but I'm not even going to do that! I don't need religion to live my life happily, and i don't need religion to not go to Hell. I have my own set of beliefs, and i don't follow a religion. I either want to come back reincarnated as a female or i want to just want to just not exist anymore. I don't want to go to Heaven where all there is is just admiring God with no care about gender, sex, or anything else. I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like Heaven at all to me, and i definitely can't go to Hell... So... *shrugs*

If Christianity is a religion that teaches your own unhappiness is your own fault and of your own choosing when in fact it's not, there is no reincarnation, that homosexuality and transsexuality is wrong, even if you hate the body God gave you, and that you will go to Hell for it, and that liking or wanting anything other than God and what God has for you is wrong then to Hell with Christianity because i want no part of such an ungodly way of living! I mean, I'm not a Christian because i don't agree with the teachings, therefore there's nothing for me as a Christian.

Bottom line: I will drag person to Hell before he EVER AGAIN tries to scare me out of transitioning by threatening that i will go to Hell for doing what makes ME happy! Screw that!

Christianity is a cult to me and i refuse to take any part in it!

Damn you, person!

I really wanted for person to respond to what i had to say in the year-later message, that i was finally transitioning and that i had lied about ever being part of his little cult (the Christian faith).

I know it might sound like it at first but i really mean no disrespect to the Christian community, especially the good ones who don't force their beliefs down people's throats and scare people out of doing what feels right for them!

I'm still mad right now that i felt compelled to shoot of another angry message when the first one went unanswered.

What i would like is to hear what other Christian/Catholic people would have to say about what i just said, since I'm probably not going to get anything out of person anymore and i really need someone ELSE to talk to about my gender stuff.

changed names of person/site since they can't give their side

Oh, hun, you are preaching to the choir on this one.  I myself am a pretty stout "anti-theist" outside these forums and have LOTS I can say about the damage 99% of the world's regions cause...even some of the more "pascifist" ones for their own reasons.  I am not against the religions themselves as they are not real things: without people, they don't mean anything in this cold, indifferent universe.  This isn't something exclusive to Christianity, but it is dominant in the Abrahamic faiths especially. 

Now, I know some good people from all walks of life and don't judge an individual based on their religious affiliation alone, having such an affiliation myself.  I am more from a "secular" branch and am a minister in one interfaith circle, which I had to distance myself from because Christians go there to "convert" others which goes against the principles of the site.  However, the site lets them stay because of "religious tolerance" so rather than pitch a fit I walked.  Anyways...

This brings us to "intelligent design."  Bull crap, is what that is.  The human body is weak, soft, and fragile: prone to genetic irregularities and our bone structure alone is bad.  We walk upright and put the largest part of our weight on one of the weakest areas of our body: the knees.  We breathe through the same point we eat, so we choke to death.  We pee out of the same area we reproduce, creating lots of chances for infection.  Our sense of smell sucks, we are allergic to the very foods we need to survive, and we are blind in comparison to most animals.

How did we get by?  Our creativity.  Our thumbs, walking upright, sure...but it has been our ability to create tools and medicine for all that ails us.

The funny thing is, if someone (lets say a Christian) who is against SRS has a bad kidney, they won't sit around and pray all day for it to be healed.  They will go to a doctor.  And if the same kidney turns toxic, they will have it removed.

But "god" apparently thinks our reproductive organ is different than any other for "spiritual" reasons.  For some reason, if our penis causes us pain or discomfort, removing it is a sin.  But it's perfectly fine for someone to remove their kidney, take meds for a cold, or go to a laser hair removal specialist.

"You shouldn't mess with how god made you."

Says the ones who shave, do circumsicions, and clip their fingernails.  Really?  Try to be how you were meant to be and they would be hairy, grungy, and with fingernails down to the ground.  Clipping your fingernails alone is altering your body, as is shaving.

Good to see you get it out of your system, hun.  Do what you have to do to get it out, and then move on as soon as you can.  These people have taken from me and robbed me of the first 30 years of my life and won't have another day of it either.

Live Well, sweety.

I'm really sorry you had to go through that.  I consider myself a Christian, but not the kind that manipulates people to beef up their evangelism scorecard.  My hope is that someday you can separate the link in your mind between God and that douchebag.  He doesn't represent God, and I guarantee he doesn't even know what the Bible really says on the subject.  (it says nothing)

He was right that, as a Christian, pursuit of one's own happiness isn't the main goal.  And most religions teach the same thing.  Pursuit of salvation or enlightenment is more important than one's happiness in this life.  But transition is not the same thing as pursuing pleasure, riches, etc.  It's a birth defect that can, and should, be corrected.

Even Exodus International -- the most famous of the "pray the gay away" ministries -- has now admitted that it's not possible to turn a gay person straight or change transgender people.

Quote from: Ev on April 27, 2014, 10:39:38 PM
The funny thing is, if someone (lets say a Christian) who is against SRS has a bad kidney, they won't sit around and pray all day for it to be healed.  They will go to a doctor.  And if the same kidney turns toxic, they will have it removed.

Religious people have no answer for this.  And it's because there is none.  The Bible says absolutely nothing about transition, it's really just their own prejudices coloring their views.  And the same people that throw the "God doesn't make mistakes" nonsense in our faces would do everything they could to fix their kidney.  There's a big difference between fatalism and respecting God's process.

Annaiyahstar,

I am so sorry that you feel so hurt and betrayed by girlinside123.
I am a Christian, and let me tell you, it has been a hard road to reconcile myself with my faith.

I would like to make a few brief points about what my thoughts on Christianity as I don't wish to weigh this down:
1.  Neither the church, nor it's believers are perfect in any way.  For Christian organisation or person to say so, would be to deny the person of Jesus Christ and what He has done.
2.  Since the church and believers are not perfect, the correct reference for true Christianity is in the person of Jesus - his character, and his actions are the ultimate guide.
3.  If you read through the gospels, Jesus does not condemn the sinner - instead he treats the poor, the unloved, the despised and rejected with compassion and love.
4.  Those who claim to follow Jesus, accept that entering heaven requires faith in who he is and what he has done, not by doing good.
5.  Yes, Christians do try to do "good", but it is in light of point 4, and resultant from a continuous process of changing character to become more like Jesus in _character_.

As for biblical readings regarding ->-bleeped-<-:
1.  There is no specific definition of "male" or "female".  Genesis 1:27 is often quoted "... male and female he created them".  But there is no specific definition here.
2.  Theologically speaking, we live in a fallen world.  What was once very good, is no longer so - thus things go wrong.  I would not discount gender identity issues as one of the possible things that go wrong.

I hope I've been able to give you another view of Christianity - if you have more questions, please feel free to pm me.  I don't claim to have all the answers.

Just remember that what someone else believes doesn't have to be true.  There are many Christian denominations that can't find agreement over some of the most fundamental and simple aspects of their faith.  Which one is right, if any? There is no one view towards our lifestyle and even though we have detractors, that doesn't mean they are right.  Those who disagree will always disagree, but there is nothing we can do other than live the best life that we can and prove them wrong through our actions.  I'm not a Christian, but I have a lot of respect for the character that Jesus represented.  The idea that love can conquer all in it's own way is a strong thing when you think about it.  I'm a non-theist that lives in a very Catholic family and have a sister who happens to be a devout Muslim.  How does the extreme Catholic family, hardcore non-theist ->-bleeped-<- and the devout muslim all get along in one family?  We put our differences aside and remember that we all love each other.  That despite whatever differences we may have, we also have a lot in common and strive to be good people.  Rather than oppose them in anger, oppose them with confidence in your own actions and beliefs.  I promise you it will be more rewarding than givig into anger and will help reach more hearts and minds in return.

Well my dear I am so glad you vented all this out.

I am a Christian and a very strong one and I am mid transition.

If I sat down next to my Saviour at a fire, eating fish with him and letting Him see me as I am, as He does anyway, what would He say?

Having concluded that trans is not sin, I think He would say "Its wonderful that you escaped the Pharisees and want to be with me instead."

NOBODY has the right to cut you off from Christ because of their misunderstanding of Who He Is.  I remember crying in the shower after my 50th purge, and feeling the Lord again, I said - Why Haven't you given up on me- and He said - I will never leave you.  I am always here for you.  It was an amazing moment.

I think its because I depend on Him so much.   I know He is real, you may think I am crazy but He came to me in a vision once and He came to my wife when she was about to leave and was in despair because of my ->-bleeped-<- finally being out, and He said to her Fear Not, and she stayed and my life is preserved.

Its ok to be mad at God.  Job was.  But don't lose the most precious gift ever offered to us, freedom from sin and condemnation and a permenent ticket off this planet into a place of pure joy, just by putting your trust in Him and the forgiveness of the cross.  And trans doesn't need to be forgiven, it is simply a part of who we are.  He excludes nobody for that.

I hope you can know Him like I do.  Its the relationship that is everything.  You are who you are.  Trans is not Biblically condemned.  Judging others is.  And its ok to be mad too.  The psalms are full of that.

If what I said is untrue, I would probably be dead by now.  My Hero is Christ and He is the one the others have to try to get through to get at me.  Good luck with that.  Wish they'd stop yelling though.

What a travesty, the misunderstandings of the church.  Source of great pain to me.

On a completely non-religious note, there are people out there who espouse non-transition as the only solution/cure to being trans*. Their choice to not transition (or to detransition) is their choice to make and live with but when they start to paint it in any form of dogma (religious, psychiatric, medical, whatever) and claim others should do the same thing it becomes problematic and potentially dangerous. It's like people who claim they can cure homosexuality.

What a Offsite group thinks is entirely their own business.  It is not important to Susans.

You will find many different groups on the internet, both pro and anti, discussing what goes on in those groups does not really apply to us.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on April 28, 2014, 09:40:41 AM
What a Offsite group thinks is entirely their own business.  It is not important to Susans.

You will find many different groups on the internet, both pro and anti, discussing what goes on in those groups does not really apply to us.

True, but AnnaiyahStarr asked for the opinion of christians on this forum.  I hope my reply was within guidelines and non-inflammatory, as it was meant as such.  I am hopeful this thread stays civil, because I am more than aware that some on this forum have been deeply hurt by religion, in particular, Christianity.

Quote from: luna nyan on April 28, 2014, 09:51:09 AM
True, but AnnaiyahStarr asked for the opinion of christians on this forum.  I hope my reply was within guidelines and non-inflammatory, as it was meant as such.  I am hopeful this thread stays civil, because I am more than aware that some on this forum have been deeply hurt by religion, in particular, Christianity.

I admit, I am one such person...long story that I am not going into here.  I was on my way at one point in my life to becoming a Pentecostal minister, so I am educated in Biblical Scripture and teaching enough to know enough. 

However, over the years I have matured enough to understand that it is not all Christians that are like that.  BUT one of the keys to reaching that point was to vent.  After the venting took place long enough, I got tired and calmed down.  It was helpful for me at that point to hear both sides, because to be honest an atheist like myself is going to be one way about it, and a Christian is going to be the other way about it.  So, my two cents.  One cannot be free to choose if one side is all they see.  I'm glad a few Christians (and even neutral parties) came in on this or it would potentially have been entirely one-sided/not fair, I admit.

Quote from: Ev on April 28, 2014, 10:00:02 AM
I admit, I am one such person...long story that I am not going into here.  I was on my way at one point in my life to becoming a Pentecostal minister, so I am educated in Biblical Scripture and teaching enough to know enough. 

I have some idea of what you mean there.  I've been to a few different churches over the years, and if I purely based my decision of faith from the behaviour of others, I would be in a similar position to you.  For me personally, there have been too many unusual co-incidences in my life, that I feel that God has been faithful to me in my life.  I've quietly thought about leaving the church many times over the years, yet I get drawn back through one thing or another - simply put, I may not have wanted God, but he wanted me.

I can fit my religion against my science background and it's happily resolved as far as I am concerned.  I would like to think that I'm well read enough that I've rationally made my decision of faith (haha!  for some people here, that is oxymoronic! )

I trust and Believe in Jesus, not in denominational Churches.

Bottom line: If you don't like the gender that God assigned you at birth and especially if you feel transitioning is something you really want/have to do, DO NOT be afraid to do it. Don't let anti-transitioning Christians like that evil bastard talk you out of transitioning by threatening you with an eternity in Hell.

Let me explain.

An all-loving, all-knowing God wouldn't condemn trans people to Hell just for transitioning, especially if they're not doing it to disrespect God, especially if it's your only way of being happy in life, and triple especially if you're an overall good person. So either transitioning is not all the moral sin Christians make it out to be (or particularly HE made it out to be) or it's not a sin at all. It doesn't take a Christian of any moral alignment to see that!

Also, God shouldn't care what religion you're a part or, or if you even follow one to begin with being the gloryful and merciful God they It is (sorry, Christians but in MY religion (or lack thereof) God is neither male or female and i refuse to use pronouns of either sex), and if J.C. is too close-minded to see that then he is not a good Christian, or rather a good person in general for that matter.

What the person failed to understand is that everyone (not just trans people) is different. What helped Person A with whatever is going on in their life may not help Person B with the same issue. While Christianity may have helped the guy I've been referring to with being transgender without transitioning, and makes him a happy person, that is NOT what helps me, and it never will.

Also, I'd like to issue an apology to the general Christian community (but except for the one person to which i speak of) as my OP might seem to infer that all Christians are evil and/or do not have respect for transgender people. I do not mean that at all and if i did say exactly that, i take it back.

For clarification, when J.C. (LordKat failed to edit out that name when the posts were changed, so i guess that is all right. Plus i don't wanna keep saying "that person", "that jerk", etc.) and I stopped e-mailing each other, i was lead into the belief that Christians - even trans Christians -generally are heartless morons who don't have respect for transgender/transsexual people and have nothing better to do than to tell us we'll go to Hell if we transition. Nothing can be further from the truth. I THINK that it is just that people in general, especially cis people, don't really grasp - or don't care to grasp - this whole "being transgender" concept so there are all the misconceptions that LGBTs in general are an abomination to the world because we "don't respect what God made us".

A message to all Christians (LGBT or not):
I have respect for your and all religions l, faiths, and beliefs, but all i ask in return is that you in turn return that same respect to us transgenders, transsexuals, and non-religious people. What i particularly mean is that we all have to do what makes us individually, religion or not, so don't tell trans people they'll go to Hell for transitioning or homosexuals they will for having same-sex partners because I'm brave enough to bet money that you people wouldn't appreciate us who   don't follow religions you will go to Hell for being a Christian, Hebrew, Buddhist, etc (except that me and the rest of us like to think the world is better off without religion). as that is no less bologna as trans or gays are going to Hell because God is not cruel in that sense.

I asked for other Christians' opinions because since he is not talking to me anymore i wanted to see what they'd have to say about me leaving the faith the way i did.

Unfortunately, all I'm saying here are lessons I had to learn the hard way but it made me a stronger woman as a result. And as a aside even if transsexualism is a sin, I'd rather go to Hell for transitioning than to go there because I was a weak enough person to let J.C. talk me out of transitioning and go the rest of my life as a man & being mad at God and myself because i didn't become a woman.

Just let me do what makes me happy over here while I let you do what makes you happy over there, provided nobody is being harmed on either of our ends.

Anna, I can see why you're mad and I don't blame you. This person is trying to impose his own belief system on you. He's using scripture to justify his own biased views. Noting new there. This individual demeaned you. Trashing others is a sin. Maybe he hasn't considered this. His kind of Christianity I avoid like the plague.

God knew that you were trans before you were born. He loves you and accepts you as you are. Your life is better having done the things necessary to make it happen and I congratulate you.

I am transgender and have been a Christian for 41 years. I have been tackling this particular topic head-on because too many people have been hurt in the process. I hope that you don't base your hated of Christianity by people like this. There are many wonderful Christians who love and support TGLB people.

I totally understand why you are upset.  In the end, all you are doing is trying to live your life without hurting anyone else in the process.  Yet, you are told this is a sin and that you are a bad person for it.  At the end of the day, I totally relate with wanting to be understood and accepted, but some people simply won't and you will be caste aside as a sinner for simply being trans.  No matter what you do or say, they are going to view you on their terms.  Don't let it destroy you.  Keep on going with being yourself because otherwise you only allow others to have control over your life.   It's not your fault that some people choose to label you as a sinner for following your heart.  It's on them.  Therefore, I really understand the need to explain yourself and try to be understood, but at the end of the day, I would advise you to just let it go.  It's not your fault and you need no explanation for being yourself.  Let your actions and your deeds define you in this world.  If there was a god, I'm sure that would matter a lot more and would be shocked if he/she really cared about a transition considering all the things wrong with the world, lol.  As though this would be one of his/her problems. 

OK now I'm fired up.

Legalism is binding and bull and Old testament law was so impossible that Christ had to die to free us.  Nobody could live it.

I have the witness of Christ in prayer and in living and absolutely am sure He remains with me and carries me through the day, and my dysphoria has been excruciating. 

Anti trans Christians are self decieved, do not understand scripture, have no clue about the power of dysphoria, and have missed the entire content of the new testiment.  They have not dug into the greek have no clue of context and do not realize that the benchmark for either gay or non conforming was the orgyistic baths in rome, with all its incest, worship of sex gods, and the dark side of any life lived for the sake of sex and sex alone.  The romans description is about a slide into deep sexual sin, and who it was with is irrelevant.

I am a hot Christian, I am absolutely not anti trans and I must as God is my witness and creator speak up for the sake of my brothers and sisters as it is a sin to not protect the innocent and to allow the perpetuity of a lie and misconception.

The gay issue I have not fully researched, but i do not believe anyone was created to live alone, and I do not believe most of them had choice, and they also must live an honest life, honest with who they are.  But as to us, barring heaven to us is the greatest sin anyone can create, and torturing transwomen and transmen with misapplied scripture is horrific to our great saviour and agonizing to me.

GGGRRrrRRrrrR.   Wake up world.   Wouldnt you like to know who He is and why He came for us?  Dont you see who his closest friends were on this earth?  Those who love and need Him.

Anyone who says your going to Hell "because your trans" is wrong. 

The only path to Hell is by Not accepting Jesus Christ as Savior.

Our sins have been forgiven by His death and our acceptance of Him.

There will always be people pushing their own agenda under the guise of a religion. I was born into a Christian family, taught and guided by nuns in Christian school, Church every week until I was an adult. I still consider myself Christian and have worn a large custom made crucifix ever since I started to transition. (over a decade ago)

I know god loves me, people who see my cross know I know god loves me.

Of course every day on the news I see Christians saying and doing horrible things, I've had conversations with Christians who think reparative therapy is a good thing One should not blame God or Jesus for the actions of these people.

Doesn't matter if your blind, trans , cancer. Jesus would do his best to help you if he was here.

Accept yourself, and accept god is willing to love you. If he made you trans then he thinks your strong enough soul to survive it.

I have just one qestion: How does he know what heaven is like? It really sounds to me like somone downed a bottle of Mezcal and ate the worm and then stared at the sun too long.

Quote from: Jess42 on May 08, 2014, 08:15:33 AM
I have just one qestion: How does he know what heaven is like? It really sounds to me like somone downed a bottle of Mezcal and ate the worm and then stared at the sun too long.

I was thinking he had too much Kool-Aid, but...

I'm staying out of this now.