Thanks for your post.  I really appreciate hearing your thoughts and experiences.  Well, it's nice to know you've been in my shoes and was able to come out of it.  I'm glad things are going well.

Talking all these things out has helped me come to some understanding. I think what I'm going through right now has less to do with passing and more to do with my self image and overall life quality.  To be honest, it's not in good shape and I'll be spending today doing things that aren't good for me in order to feel a little better and get some relief from depression.  I'm more worried about who I am and how others see me more than anything.  Passing itself really isn't the end goal the more I think of it.  It's important to me, but only because it shields myself from other people and allows me to finally not be consumed by it and preventing me from everything. However, my life is never going to get better until I stop caring so much about them. I guess I realize all of these things.  I just don't know how to get passed it. And that sounds like a cop out, but it's true.

And I want to apologize again to everyone.  I know I'm annoying with this stuff and in many ways I am a loser.  I hate that I'm like this and I'm sorry to subject you all to it. 

Don't be silly. I'm sure everyone was happy to help!

I really do look forward to you getting on HRT, noticing all the changes and hopefully, very soon, living as a girl, good luck!

I've been n hrt for almost a year.  I started in June and got on the usual dose around October.  So it's been a few months.

I'm sure everyone is happy to help, but I feel bad.   I feel like I drag everyone else down with me and I'm disappointing a lot of people that I don't want to hurt.  I need to think of more long term solutions for my depression and I'm not handling this the right way.  While I can't do everythig all at once like people are suggesting, it's just not for me, I can't cry and abuse myself anymore like this.  Everyone is so sweet and caring here. And you all mean the world to me for being like that.  I never really had that in my life.  Sorry for getting emotinoal, it just means a lot and I hate being so negative here.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 28, 2014, 12:15:24 PM
I've been n hrt for almost a year.  I started in June and got on the usual dose around October.  So it's been a few months.

I'm sure everyone is happy to help, but I feel bad.   I feel like I drag everyone else down with me and I'm disappointing a lot of people that I don't want to hurt.  I need to think of more long term solutions for my depression and I'm not handling this the right way.  While I can't do everythig all at once like people are suggesting, it's just not for me, I can't cry and abuse myself anymore like this.  Everyone is so sweet and caring here. And you all mean the world to me for being like that.  I never really had that in my life.  Sorry for getting emotinoal, it just means a lot and I hate being so negative here.

Mattie, hon, you know how much I care about you. I feel like an older sister to you and want the best for you. Sweetie, by the sounds of it you didn't have a whole lot of things in your life that empowered you, that made you feel like it was okay to be you. That's probably why you don't really know how to deal with it now. It's like a whole new plethora of feelings and confusion and trying to understand yourself. Trying to find yourself free of all the survival techniques you've had to adopt while you were growing up.

It's okay, sweetie. It really is. It will take as long as it takes. Sometimes it can take time to untangle the threads of everything that's happened to you, what it all means, and how you can grow from it. Keep searching, trying to understand, looking for yourself.

You will get through this.

*extra big hug*

Hoping not to be triggering here but let me fill out a little detail from my story in response to your new postings:

  For most of my life I was super self-conscious and paranoid of what people thought of me.  I'd even look at everyone's faces as I passed them on the street to see if they were watching me critically.  I grew more and more reserved.  It removed the expressiveness from my voice and my face and even affected the way I walked.  I had to shed all this as part of my recovery.  Within reason I don't really care now what people think of me in any context.  I do this as respectfully as I can and without rubbing it in anyone's face though.

  I used to keep my emotions in check because I felt they would just make people uncomfortable.  Everything would store up into a severe crying fit roughly every four to six months where all my frustrations and depression would burst out in an uncontrollable and unfocused purge.  In the final year of my down-swing I'd have a couple drinks with friends every week and when I'd leave to go home I'd become completely consumed with my depression and cry all the way home.  I didn't understand what was wrong and felt helpless to do anything about it.  I'd always felt somewhat alien and couldn't put all the pieces together.  The depression was making me feel like my head was gripped by some sort of indescribable vise of 'crazy-tension' and I'd literally try to physically daze myself to dull the feeling.  I seriously felt like I needed to smash my head against a wall repeatedly until I couldn't feel or think (thankfully I didn't try this).  Eventually I decided I had to stop hurting myself and dwelling on my depression and simply descended into a zombie-like state where I didn't care about tomorrow and just went through my daily routine like a robot.  I was essentially dead inside.

  I would have lived out the rest of my life in this condition if I hadn't somewhat accidently awakened to my trans reality and how it put together all the scattered pieces of my past into a completely coherent picture.  One of the first things I did was join Susan's.  If anything, this was my therapy.  It should be the same for you - this is a therapy group and you shouldn't apologize or feel ashamed for showing your emotions or telling your story.  If I didn't feel it was this way then I wouldn't have dared make some of the personal admissions I've made.  When people clearly demonstrate here that they are good-hearted then we all want to help and you can expect us to try because your challenges hit home with our own experiences.  It especially means a lot to me to do this because I feel like I'm paying back a debt to all listeners on Susan's that helped me when I was scared and uneducated at the beginning of my own journey.

  You can feel better but you have to flip the switch in your mind that says it is possible and learn to ignore everything that has no bearing on your success.  When I take the last major step to come out at work I will instantly and unavoidably be known as trans (and whatever that means to each person) to hundreds of people spreading out quickly to thousands due to the very public nature of my employment and the social media age.  I absolutely have to have a grip on my mind to get through this and it begins with the understanding that my success in transition is more important than what any one of those people thinks about it.  There will always be people that know part of your story.  They are going to make up their own minds about it no matter what you do.  If any of them are still around at the end then they probably will be good with the end result and treat you the way you want to be treated.  Worrying about fully hiding your past will probably affect your behavior negatively and cause you an enormous amount of unwarranted paranoia.  I finally found true calm and peace of mind in my life for the very first time when I threw away my unnecessary concerns - so can you!

I aparently can't handle the "not passing" right now... I am fulltime for two weeks, all of my friends are telling me, that I am passable, but I keep being sirred, no matter how I am dressed... I started feeling ugly and desparate...
I don't react, when I get sirred - I just behave normally and just go on, but when I go back home and I am alone, I start to cry of despair... but obviously, there is nothing I can do to change the way I look...

@LTL: Ok, finally took a look at your "hot mess" pic and girl, if that was you not trying then DANG would I ever bet you'd more than pass when you ARE trying. Yes in some ways you look A but honestly when I first saw the top pic I thought, girl. (Was the first I saw and the 2nd I noticed the stache shadow but for some reason can't see it in the top one, maybe the lighting) Really, as others have said, you CAN pass and that is an honest to goodness answer from me.

Anyway, as I read more and more of your posts here, I really can't help but be amazed at how similar we are. While it might just be me projecting here (I don't think so though), if I am right and we ARE this similar then, I honestly believe I understand a good bit of how you feel and to a certain extent, what is the cause for why you are the way you are. I honestly believe the only person who can change you is, you and maybe someone close to you in your life but YOU have to take the steps toward changing. You keep saying you don't want to bring us down, give you a negative view of you but that isn't the case and you keep saying sorry when there isn't any need too. I also know that probably no matter what we say it may not hit home and help you take the steps you need, or it may but only if you listen to yourself and us. As for not being able to talk about certain things, especially when it involves privacy of others/yourself, if not us then your therapist hun. Seriously, PLEASE tell us you are at least getting that stuff off of you through your therapist? Oh and also, if you don't go full time in June then you'll probably go full time when you can't take it no more but really, that's ONLY going to do you more harm then good. Take your time and work your way up to it like I did and best of luck on getting the courage to do so. While you may not think you have it now, I'm sure it's there in you somewhere.

Thanks everyone.  While this is a support forum and all, I just feel like I'm sort of like a hurricane and just destroy everything in my path and leave people feeling hurt, negative and annoyed.   Even if that's not this case for all, I've had this impact way more than I care to admit during my time here.  That's not what I want to be, but it's who I am.  So I have to say sorry.  It's the only response I've ever known because most of my problems are my own fault and doing in some way. 

I really wish I could open up more, but there are things I can't say here.  I'm open about a lot here, but family issues are not one of those that I can easiy share.  I've talked about some things and have been really open here in many ways, but about most of my past other things are best kept in the family for the sake of privacy.  My therapist is aware of certain family dyanmics and the negative implications they play, but I don't like bashing people I love and it creates a false image because I'm to blame for a lot of things too. Look at how I react in the Susan's family, it's not all that different to real ife.  So, I don't want to blame my family for these things.  They may have hurt me in some big ways, but they are my everything and I'm not going to throw them under a bus when I've go my own huge flaws.  They are more amazing than not and I'd rather leave it at that.

Honestly, it's sweet of everyone to try, but I'm not going to change anytime soon.  I'm not going to get better.  It's just not going to happen.  I'm going to continue dealing with the pain the best way I know how to, which I admit isn't a good thing, let more time pass.  Yes, I will prepare myself and train for the future, but it's for the future.  I may train my voice, practice my makeup, and learn what works on my body, but this is all in doors out of sight from the world. The next month or so I'm going to hide myself in my room and do what I always do.  I'm a loser and my life lacks meaning and substance, but I don't change and just whine about it.   I'm lonely as all hell, but will never reach out to the world.  This is what I do.  I'm looking for answers, yet I already know them and I avoid them.  I'm pathetic and we all know this.  Maybe I'll find work again so I feel a little better and have things to allow me to avoid my thoughts, but that's something that is uncertain due to a pending appeal and my luck in the job market.  And even if I feel lonely, I'm not going to reach out to people as a boy nor am I going to go forward until June, if then, so I will do nothing to resolve these feelings anytime soon.

I'm really sorry everyone.  I really am.  I try to be a good person, but I fail all the time.  And many of you are such nice and sweet people here.  I do appreciate everything you say and do even if it doesn't seem that way.  I'm really not ignoring anyone and hear everyone's words more than you may realize.  I feel a lot and your attempts to help me mean a lot to me. And I'm really sorry but as much as I want to meet everyone else's expectations and be a better person, I just can't right now.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 28, 2014, 09:01:47 PM
Honestly, it's sweet of everyone to try, but I'm not going to change anytime soon.  I'm not going to get better.  It's just not going to happen.  I'm going to continue dealing with the pain the best way I know how to, which I admit isn't a good thing, let more time pass.  Yes, I will prepare myself and train for the future, but it's for the future.  I may train my voice, practice my makeup, and learn what works on my body, but this is all in doors out of sight from the world. The next month or so I'm going to hide myself in my room and do what I always do.  I'm a loser and my life lacks meaning and substance, but I don't change and just whine about it.   I'm lonely as all hell, but will never reach out to the world.

You reached out to us didn't you? I know that may not be quite the kind of reaching out you had in mind, but it's something. At least give yourself a little credit for what you've actually done.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 28, 2014, 09:01:47 PMI'm really sorry everyone.  I really am.  I try to be a good person, but I fail all the time.  And many of you are such nice and sweet people here.  I do appreciate everything you say and do even if it doesn't seem that way.  I'm really not ignoring anyone and hear everyone's words more than you may realize.  I feel a lot and your attempts to help me mean a lot to me. And I'm really sorry but as much as I want to meet everyone else's expectations and be a better person, I just can't right now.

I don't think there is anyone here who would think badly of you just because you have some difficult personal issues that you are going through. Everyone here knows what that's like, in one way or another. More than anything I think we are just worried about you, because no one could possibly deserve the amount of criticism you give to yourself. Have you ever noticed that number under your avatar? The one under your post count that seems to go up any time you say something really positive or helpful to another person? It's a lot higher than mine is, that's for sure. I would like nothing more that to hear you say some of the positive things to yourself that you are always saying to everyone else around here.

This question should be asked by every person that ever transitions.  Coming to terms with the idea that you may never pass and going ahead with it anyway is kind of a rite of passage.  I think most successful transitions start with that step.  In some ways it proves your commitment, if only to yourself.  I think the most important thing is it just helps manage your expectations, because happiness and meeting expectations are intertwined.  Having the former without the latter just doesn't happen.  It also helps manage fear. Fear of not passing can keep you locked away, and that isn't good for your mental health.  Fear of not passing can also cause you to not pass, so there's that too.

Please don't apologize for being honest about how you are feeling.  Getting things that bother you off your chest is therapeutic, and that is kind of the role support forums are supposed to play.

I would say that the stories we tell ourselves in our heads chart the course for how our life turns out.  When you tell yourself that you can't do this or that for this or that reason, then those things manifest and you actually never do accomplish any of those things you were sure you couldn't do.  I would never, ever treat another person as poorly as I treat myself, so I am guilty of this too, majorly.  But we all need to be kinder to ourselves.  If we can be, we will put ourselves on a positive trajectory, which will help not only our own lives become brighter, but will allow us to be a positive influence on those that surround us.  Positivity emanates and is absorbed by anybody that is lucky enough to be nearby.

All that is well and good, but I know when you are in a dark place, nothing is more difficult to do than start treating yourself well inside your own head.  You need friends, you need kindness surrounding you.  I hope you can find that in your real life, but if not, maybe you can find some of it here.

@LTL: Truth be told I already knew what you'd say. lol Why? Because we're a lot alike. While I myself beat myself up in similar ways that you do, as well as put things on hold for too long (Thanks genetics and the passing of procrastination lol), there IS a difference between how we do it to ourselves. lol Mine comes from my past and how I hurt others.. that and a bit more I think.. I know others tell me how nice a person I am, how this and that but, while I see it, I can't really give myself enough credit in certain areas and wonder why. (Yes I'm being cryptic here lol) Anyway, enough about me, while I knew what you'd say/do, I also believe like me, you'll eventually reach a point where you can't take it anymore and will go full time. Just remember all our advice and don't revert back out of fear/hesitation and the like. Oh and also, please read the sentence in my sig. (The one that's underlined and not in the pic) While that may seem like it's meant towards people who don't believe what we're telling them or try to deny it, the truth is it is meant for us too and for anything when it comes to denial. It's a saying I like but at times don't like. It's also a reminder to myself regarding something about myself that I dislike but can't help. I hope it'll help you. Oh and, you keep talking about expectations, perhaps it's not us you're trying to live up to but yourself? We keep telling you, you have nothing to impress us with or however you want to put it and even if you do let us down, so what? We aren't you, we have to live our own lives just as you have to live yours. While we share many things in common, none of us here have to try and impress/get approval etc. from anyone else here. I really think you're trying to get approval for yourself more so than from us because you've already got us on your side and we like/love you and, hey, that rep count don't lie you know.

Anyway, best of luck and hang in there.

Thanks everyone.  I'm just kinda going through something.  I don't like being unemployed and right now I feel very devoid of meaning or purpose in life.   Like I'm just existing but without a reason.  And rather than fill that gap of loneliness and meaningless, I just don't feel able to step forward at this time.  So, I'm the creator of my own misery.  But whether it's a real feeling or not, I do feel like I'm disappointing people with my failures.  And like it or not, that post count is the true reflection of my rep points more than anything.  It's just natural since I never shut up, lol.  In any case, I am hard on myself to some degree, but I don't know.  Honestly, the last few days I've been feeling very confused about who I am and why I am this way.  What my purpose in life is and how I get passed this.  Transitioning is something I have to do and hopefully it will be the beginning of a whole new life for me, but I don't know.  Maybe it won't, and will I ever really get there?  I'm kind of just stuck waiting for the day that will never come. 

Thank you all for your support and help, but really there is little anyone can do for me in this regard.  I have to solve this out for myself and learn my own worth.  It's going to take soul searching and time.  And whatever helpful or wonderful advice/support is offered to me will fall on open ears but a closed mind.  I really don't want people wasting there time with me because that's what I am at the moment.  And it will only make me feel like I am failing you all to some degree, I know that's a crazy thought but I do think these things.  Thank you so much for all your kind words and help.  It means the world to me.  I just have to find a way to hep myself this time.  I'm not leaving and I'm sure I will continuing talking in some capacity, but I think this thread has reached it's course.  Thank you everyone, especially the people that have consistently been there for me, yu know who you are.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 29, 2014, 11:23:20 AM
  Honestly, the last few days I've been feeling very confused about who I am and why I am this way.  What my purpose in life is and how I get passed this.

  Your typo made me smile because it would have made a good intentional pun in the context of this discussion!   There's a silver lining even in mistakes.

Quote from: Violet Bloom on April 29, 2014, 02:38:39 PM
  Your typo made me smile because it would have made a good intentional pun in the context of this discussion!   There's a silver lining even in mistakes.

Lol. There will be many typos and grammatical errors to come.  That I can assure you, lol.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 29, 2014, 02:40:16 PM
Lol. There will be many typos and grammatical errors to come.  That I can assure you, lol.

  Made you smile!

Quote from: learningtolive on April 29, 2014, 11:23:20 AM
Thanks everyone.  I'm just kinda going through something.  I don't like being unemployed and right now I feel very devoid of meaning or purpose in life.   Like I'm just existing but without a reason.  And rather than fill that gap of loneliness and meaningless, I just don't feel able to step forward at this time.  So, I'm the creator of my own misery.  But whether it's a real feeling or not, I do feel like I'm disappointing people with my failures.  And like it or not, that post count is the true reflection of my rep points more than anything.  It's just natural since I never shut up, lol.  In any case, I am hard on myself to some degree, but I don't know.  Honestly, the last few days I've been feeling very confused about who I am and why I am this way.  What my purpose in life is and how I get passed this.  Transitioning is something I have to do and hopefully it will be the beginning of a whole new life for me, but I don't know.  Maybe it won't, and will I ever really get there?  I'm kind of just stuck waiting for the day that will never come. 

Thank you all for your support and help, but really there is little anyone can do for me in this regard.  I have to solve this out for myself and learn my own worth.  It's going to take soul searching and time.  And whatever helpful or wonderful advice/support is offered to me will fall on open ears but a closed mind.  I really don't want people wasting there time with me because that's what I am at the moment.  And it will only make me feel like I am failing you all to some degree, I know that's a crazy thought but I do think these things.  Thank you so much for all your kind words and help.  It means the world to me.  I just have to find a way to hep myself this time.  I'm not leaving and I'm sure I will continuing talking in some capacity, but I think this thread has reached it's course.  Thank you everyone, especially the people that have consistently been there for me, yu know who you are.

LTL, though this is my first reply to this thread I have read entirely through it, and I truly sincerely wish I lived close to you. If I did we could hang out and I could help you one on one out of this slump you seem to be in. I'm fairly sure that hanging out with me for a little while would give you the confidence you'd need to pull yourself out of this hole you're in (I've been told my confidence is contagious!). The first thing I'd do is take you shopping to get you a few cute outfits and accessories also some makeup. Then after getting your hair and nails done, and a little makeup (remember less is more sweetie, lol!) we'd have a girls night out together which during I know you'll come out of your shell. I've seen your photos and I garantee you'll pass 100% and with me at your side you'd have a great time. But most important you'll have a great time as Mattie -as you, and all your worries would melt away. I've followed your progress since I've been a member here at Susan's. I've read your replies especially those recently wherein you've given so much help to other girls. In fact from now on you're no longer LTL to me. Your Mattie and I'll address you as you here and in the future. I just reeeeeaally wish I lived close enough to you to sort of be your big sister and give you a shoulder to cry on, and a big hug when you need it, and moreover show you by example you can get past this slump, come out of that coccoon you're in emerging as the beautiful young woman you are.

Just remember Mattie I'm only a pm away if you need me.

Hugs,

Ally

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 28, 2014, 02:22:23 AM
Mattie reminds me a little of my mother, I just wanna shake her and be like damnn it woman why do you ask if you're not even gonna listen! Or if you're gonna bury us in rationaluzations or pretend you're listening but do your own thing, anyway.

I say that with love, hon. Lotsa and ltotsa love. But you need to snap out of this! Because your problems are so fixable. I've seen your pictures...and I have to agree with Joanna on what she said about the eyebrows. Damn girl, fix that sh-t! Hell, I'll do it for you.

Fact is, nobodys born perfect! Noobody. You need to modify your body to where you like it. That includes makeup..such as to cover the minor beard shadow you got goin on. And a little bit of expression in your face will do wonders for you...like...smile...or scowl...but express an emotion.

Your problems are so so fixable Mattie. You just need to except that estrogen isn't a panecea. There's tons more work in transition. You WILL pass if you try, but you don't try babe!  And also....I think you're a little OCD. Which you may wanna discuss with a therapist.

Seriously Mattie, go to a salon. Get your hair done, get your brows styled. Then go to the mall and get a fuull makeover if you don't know how to apply it yourself. Then buy something cute and girly from American Apparel or wherever you shop. Then make a friend. Then go out for some fricken FroYo, and tell me you don't feel a gajillion times better. It's summer, girl....you know who you are right? That's the hardest f-cking part! Now go out and be her, ya scaredy cat!

*waits for LtL to write out more rationalizations for why she's dragging her feet*

PS. Please don't be hurt this is meant as 'tough love' not an attack, by any means at aall

^^ I love this advice because I need to use it myself. I'm out. Will check back in June!

LTL please ease up on yourself, you are being totally emotionally exhausting. HRT is still improving you and you're moving towards being a pretty darn knockout of a gal (I'm actually crushing on you in private because you look so damn like a younger version of me lol). In the meantime, how about checking off some of those tick boxes on your to-do list while the magic continues working behind the scenes? Maybe disconnect from Susans for awhile? That's what I'm doing actually, I'm pretty set for now and really need to let the E do its job, then revisit and re-assess.

I do not handle being misgendered well. Thankfully it rarely happens anymore; at least with strangers. I'm clocked often enough though due largely to lingering upper body bulk and when some reactions are laughter I do not handle that well either. I have occassionly abused people as a result which is obviously counter productive but sometimes I can't help it when it pisses me off so much.

The thing that keeps me going is knowing that things are coming together and that one day I will pass very, very well. Never passing? I don't think I could handle that.

I am known as a trans woman by almost everyone I know.  Maybe that will change one day, but not likely anytime soon.  I don't pass as female always either.  Yesterday I got sired by someone collecting money supporting a homeless shelter as I walked out of the post office.  So it seems that when my makeup is right, and I'm wearing skinny jeans or a skirt I get correctly gendered (at least to my face), otherwise it is kind of a toss up.  This is electrolysis day, so I mostly hate the sight of myself, but I have some stuff to do later this morning, so I'll do what I can and face the world as my authentic self.  I don't do very well in the boy suit anymore, and am enough on edge right now not to find out what happens if I present even androgynously.

June 11 is my coming out party at work, so I'm a bit tense, and will be that way for another month or so.  Wish it was done.  Wish I felt pretty.  At least I feel like I fit into my own skin, which is the most important criteria for me to go from day to day.

hugs to everyone,
Julie

I saw Shatner last weekend and thought about thanking him for recording the words, "live life! Live life! Like you're gonna die! Because you're going to."

I found the sentiment so motavating it's actually one reason I am the woman I am today.

I said nothing, but enjoyed the "KAHN!" And "Denny Crane" he gave us.

Live life everyone! Live life!