After obtaining access to the Yahoo FFS support group, the story goes as usual: Not enough information on Cardenas, and the existing photos show that either he does nothing, complete disasters or gives cloned faces. He is out of the question.
There are like 35 Zukowski photosets and little else from any other surgeon... Not mentioning that obviously people remove photos quickly after they are finished to be able to remain stealth.

I still haven't gotten in contact with U.S. surgeons, but obviously coming from abroad and without insurance (I already have healthcare paid from my pocket here) there I think it would be terrible expensive between anaesthesia, hospital stay costs, etc... Right now Chett still seems like my better choice. I'm still calculating the pricing and I need to ask him more questions, but after the answer I got from Cardenas, he actually looks like he knows what he is doing.

Quote from: AppleJack on March 18, 2014, 09:19:37 AM
Don't know that Toby Mayer... Beberly hills sounds expensive. Far more than Thailand or Belgium.

There is an ongoing thread about Dr Mayer in this forum.

He is actually pretty reasonable in price.  Don't cut someone out just because of his location   I went in for a consult and liked him a lot.  There is no hospital stay but they need to release you to someone who can take care of you for the first day.  If you don't have anyone then you have to go to an aftercare facility.  After that you can switch to a hotel.  I know you are on a budget so find what works for you but I would save some money and go to the right surgeon versus settling for cheap.  It is your face after all

Quote from: AppleJack on March 16, 2014, 01:22:48 PM
Anyways, in the end I have two options
- Pick a medium grade surgeon with a well known name (Spiegel, van den pen, Chert...) And do just a forehead and nose.
- Pick a low cost surgeon (Cardenas) and get a full face, including other cosmetic feelings such an eyelid lift or a peeling.

I think it's unfair to call any of those surgeons medium grade. In the case of Dr Bart Van de Ven (not pen). He is a medium-priced, top quality surgeon. You only have to look at his Before and After page on his website to see what he is capable of. In my opinion the change in his patient Lydia is truly remarkable, and if you have chin and jaw issues, you only have to look at Francesca to see an amazing transformation into a feminine face.

He is well known for his chin work as many of his patients on that first page appear to have had some chin work done. I saw two surgeons in Britain - Mr Brian Musgrove and Mr Keith Altman - and Dr Bart in Belgium. Even with the extra cost involved in travelling from England and the accommodation cost, Dr Bart still proved to be slightly less expensive than the UK surgeons. But it wasn't about cost with me, it was about results and his website showed him to be the best choice.

I'm not sure where you live, I'm guessing Europe, but Dr Bart holds regular consultation sessions in Antwerp (since relocating there from Ghent earlier this year), London, Berlin, Munich and Zurich. For 50€ you can see him and find out what he can do.

He will NOT try to get you to have unnecessary procedures. I wanted cheek implants and he strongly advised against it, saying it would give me an unnatural appearance. I'm glad I listened to him.

Between us we decided a facelift was necessary but best left until the swelling had subsided and I was ready to have it done. I'm glad I listed to that advice. A friend of mine used a different surgeon and had a facelift combined with her FFS surgery. Two years on, she needed another facelift as once the swelling had completely disappeared it had left her skin very saggy. She, too, is on the wrong side of 30.

Dr Bart is a very talented surgeon. I have booked to see him about my facelift next month in London. I have every confidence in his ability and honesty.

Hope you choose wisely

Caroline

Right now I can't travel, so I would be forced to do the photo consultation and pay those 50€... even when all the surgeons that have replied to me agree on what I need.



Anyways, as usual I'm having doubts. I thought I could do this, have FFS and live with a dick, but in the end it's too hard. Doing the FFS with a "medium" surgeon, not mattering if Europe, America or Asia means being unsure about when I will be able to afford SRS again. And in the end is as they told me "No matter how much you try to hide it with dick jokes, yo have the highest genital dysphoria". Having FFS donde may be a real bad move, so I may delay things a lot more.

Quote from: AppleJack on March 25, 2014, 08:53:34 AM
Anyways, as usual I'm having doubts. I thought I could do this, have FFS and live with a dick, but in the end it's too hard. Doing the FFS with a "medium" surgeon, not mattering if Europe, America or Asia means being unsure about when I will be able to afford SRS again. And in the end is as they told me "No matter how much you try to hide it with dick jokes, yo have the highest genital dysphoria". Having FFS donde may be a real bad move, so I may delay things a lot more.

Would you be able to go full time without FFS ?
Because if you are required to have been living two years at least full time before getting SRS, maybe having FFS and delaying SRS is not such a bad move.
But of course it's very hard to make this kind of decisions.

Quote from: switchy on March 25, 2014, 11:38:30 PM
Would you be able to go full time without FFS ?
Because if you are required to have been living two years at least full time before getting SRS, maybe having FFS and delaying SRS is not such a bad move.
But of course it's very hard to make this kind of decisions.

1) I checked the requirements, I talked with my therapists: No Full time requirement (The RLE requirement was removed from the last SOC). Just 12 months HRT and both therapist and endocrinologist's confirmation that I am physically and mentally fit for SRS. We have talked a lot about it, in may I make 12 months, and in june they are arranging a meeting with me and the local SRS surgeon to give all the details and things to know before having SRS done, since I am not doing it with them.

2) I've been full time since October. Even with needing FFS, I seem to pass better with no makeup or hair extensions right now. Not even needing the push-up bras. It's a 50/50 right now, but I don't care a lot to the point where I am in a changing room full of naked ladies without FFS. Although that does not remove the fact that with enough time in front of a person the little things will be spotted.

Spain is a difficult place: It's normal to stay two whole years unemployed, and even you are lucky to find a job again, you will be stuck with a minimum wage again and unable to save again. I'm already thinking of renting the second room. But the fact is: On a good job it would take me two years to save for SRS. On a minimum wage job I'd only have enough for paying the bills and food. I've though a lot of times about ditching the SRS in favor of good FFS, but no matter how hard I try, the tough of remaining with a dick for an indefinite amount of time sends me in an fit of anxiety tha needs to be medded again. I did not want to believe people telling me that I was a severe case for genital dysphoria, but I am. If not things would be easier. FFS is the logical decision, but staying without SRS (or receiving a messed healthcare disaster) is enough to scare me.

Hi Applejack, I can tell your getting very frustrated by everything. Ive decided to try and give some advice that might help. Regarding FFS...After having face to face consultations with Dr Chettawut, Dr Van Der Ven and Facial team 3 times, video chatting [skyping] with Dr Spiegel, and getting prices from Dr Musgrave, Dr Van Deussen, Femilife and Dr Cardenas, my head was in a spin. There was examples of good results and bad results, good and bad experiences. Dr Chettawut would have been my choice if I could afford him, as I believe that he is the best out there. I had my surgery on the 1st of August last year with Dr Cardenas, he done an okay job, but so conservative. Ive now got to go through some of the procedures again, which is a scary and expensive and time consuming prospect. If you can afford Dr Chet then he is probably the pick of the bunch, I cannot afford his inflated prices. I do not trust Dr Cardenas to do any more surgery on me, so again I am spending hour after hour, day after day online and on the phone trying to find my next surgeon. I too am very frustrated and I dont know what to do or who to go to. Im going to keep looking, Ive gotten a couple of fresh ideas from all your replies, which I will look into later. If you make a reply back to this then I will post how I got on, and what, and who Im going to next.

I discarded Cardenas even more after getting some adittional testimony from another girl that was left with some bad issues - And functional ones with the face, specially the nose. Something that they internally fixed on me several months ago. My face can be "difficult" to work with due to the assimetry, so even if Chett is somewhat overpriced (Bart is the second choice right now) I'd still go with it.

Still, not so sure on wanting to do it. I'm still in the "choose one surgery" stage due to limited funds, and my genital dysphoria has become crippling. I hoped it would be one of those bad days, but it is staying.

I only tend to take testimony seriously from people that have been to the surgeon, your criticism of Cardenas is second hand... So whoever gave you the testimony should post it in the forum, or you could repost what they told you?  I have a difficult time finding bad stories about Cardenas anywhere... There are one or two out there, but every surgeon has at least that many. I flew to Belgium to consult with Dr. Bart and frankly I wasn't impressed with his forgetting his laptop at home in Antwerp... or the consultation for that matter;  I felt like I had to lead him, which was mildly frustrating seeing that I flew all the way from America to speak with him. After returning to the United States I saw some girls on his Facebook page complaining of some problems and he would just remove their posts... So after that, Dr. Bart was out for me...Although I'm sure he is still a good choice for some people and I've seen him do some excellent work. I have met 3 of Dr. Cardenas patients and seen enough examples online and on YouTube that I feel confident in his ability. I'm choosing Cardenas over Dr. Spiegel, Dr. Zukowski and Dr. Ousterhout (who I can't afford but who I wouldn't go to even if I could). Honestly if I hadn't met 3 girls that have been to Cardenas, I don't know that I would feel as confident in him, but seeing a surgeon's work first hand is very helpful. I'll make sure to post my results and experience when I get back

Ok, I see the not so great testimony from TearDrops. There is no right surgeon for every person, it really depends on what you need. If you look heavily masculine and you need aggression, then it's possible Cardenas isn't the best for that unless you specify you want him to be aggressive. Without seeing TearDrops before and after, it's tough to judge. I really wish people would post pictures to back up their statements on here... it's not that hard to do...

Quote from: AppleJack on March 18, 2014, 09:19:37 AM


He Proposes:
Forehead / brow ridge contouring with scalp advancement and brow lift: 390.000 TBH - 8721€
Eyelif Lift: 58.000 TBH- 1296€
Nose with Alarplasty: 163000 TBH - 3642'80€

Trach Shave: 58.000 - 1296€
Lip Lift: 48000 - 1072'59€
Jaw/Chin: 270.000 - 6.037€
Chin Implant: 58000 - 1296€

wow a lot of money ..... 

Quote from: jgirl76 on May 02, 2014, 03:23:15 AM
Ok, I see the not so great testimony from TearDrops. There is no right surgeon for every person, it really depends on what you need. If you look heavily masculine and you need aggression, then it's possible Cardenas isn't the best for that unless you specify you want him to be aggressive. Without seeing TearDrops before and after, it's tough to judge. I really wish people would post pictures to back up their statements on here... it's not that hard to do...

I will try to put some photos up in the next couple of days. My chin looks bad, one ear looks great the other one is bad, and still, nine months after, is still releasing a little bit of pus from one part of the incision, and that small part has turned black [yeaterday] and my nose......well Im not going to put any photos up because its virtually unchanged from what it was, which was a mess, and still is. The forehead work is good, but it has been nine months and I still have a lot of numbness of the scalp. When I have everything sorted out I will post some photos pre Cardenas, after Cardenas and after whoever I go to next. I have spoken to Tyler [Dr Cardenas clientele liaison], I was told that Dr C will be charging me again to do any correctional surgery, so Im screwed. I will certainly NOT be going back to him.

Quote from: jgirl76 on May 02, 2014, 03:17:01 AM
I only tend to take testimony seriously from people that have been to the surgeon, your criticism of Cardenas is second hand... So whoever gave you the testimony should post it in the forum, or you could repost what they told you?  I have a difficult time finding bad stories about Cardenas anywhere... There are one or two out there, but every surgeon has at least that many. I flew to Belgium to consult with Dr. Bart and frankly I wasn't impressed with his forgetting his laptop at home in Antwerp... or the consultation for that matter;  I felt like I had to lead him, which was mildly frustrating seeing that I flew all the way from America to speak with him. After returning to the United States I saw some girls on his Facebook page complaining of some problems and he would just remove their posts... So after that, Dr. Bart was out for me...Although I'm sure he is still a good choice for some people and I've seen him do some excellent work. I have met 3 of Dr. Cardenas patients and seen enough examples online and on YouTube that I feel confident in his ability. I'm choosing Cardenas over Dr. Spiegel, Dr. Zukowski and Dr. Ousterhout (who I can't afford but who I wouldn't go to even if I could). Honestly if I hadn't met 3 girls that have been to Cardenas, I don't know that I would feel as confident in him, but seeing a surgeon's work first hand is very helpful. I'll make sure to post my results and experience when I get back

When you say "Dr Bart" do you mean Dr Bart Van de Ven or Dr Bart Van de Deussen, or is there another one ??

Quote from: TearDrops on May 03, 2014, 08:10:48 PM
When you say "Dr Bart" do you mean Dr Bart Van de Ven or Dr Bart Van de Deussen, or is there another one ??

This question is misinformed, there is only one Dr. Bart (Van De Ven) the other Dr you seem to be referring to is called Dr. Noorman Van Der Dussen.. Maybe you got confused...

Hi calicarly, would you mind letting me know what surgeons you went to for your 2 nose surgeries, and how did you find the experiences ?? Thanks for your time.

Dr. Bart van de Ven in Belgium