Quote from: Jill F on May 05, 2014, 07:15:23 PM
Way to go.  Probably an exercise in futility, but it's fun to press the loonies' buttons once in awhile.

We got these Westboro Batsh^t Cult wannabe whackadoos outside a concert last year, telling us we're going to hell for seeing The Rolling Stones and oh BTW, God hates homosexuals too.   So my wife and I got up in front of the one with the "God hates f*gs" sign and shared a passionate kiss.   Due to the police standing nearby, there wasn't a thing he could do except have his face turn the same shade of red as his neck.  We gave him the finger and moved on. 

Yeah, Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore...

In the US that is in violation of federal hate crime laws. These stupid people are really pushing their luck.

Quote from: Amy1988 on May 07, 2014, 04:58:28 PM

As I stated in another post, religion seems to attract nuts with a pathological need to feel superior over and stand in judgement over other people completely contradicting the bible.  They also apparently don't understand that the sins they commit on a daily basis are no less sinful than the sins they claim others commit.  This is why my generation has rejected religion unfortunately.  In a few years I hate to say faith will be a thing of the past and these people are to blame.

I couldn't necissarily say that your generation has rejected so much as actually trying to see past old mindsets. Spirutal perceptions change and goes through cycles so really it can be a fortunate thing. Remember that Christ rejected the accepted religious mindsets of his day. I am talking Christ in an historical capacity and not the religous sense of that Spirit in modern days. Your generation got these ideas from my generation and so on. So no, there is no one to blame. Eventually the days of self righteous preachers that are secretely going across statelines to drink, or have secret lovers, male or female and or pay for play lovers in different cities than there own while throwing stones trying to break my glass house will be over.

Look at what Daniella did. She confronted a Zeolot and took all his power away from him and his possible hold over the crowd. Then compare that with the Salem Witchtrials in which a fear and mass hysteria and false accusations got a lot of good people murdered. Most people do believe in something and confusion, doubt, distrust in establismentarianism belief system or systems all will lead to a questioning and then hopefully better understanding until it is used by powerful people to control the masses and get all distorted again. It is no generation's fault and the Bible is an historical document of this occuring throughout history especially when it comes to the science of Astronomy. 

And... Christianity, or religion in general is not exclusive in abuse and manipulation.  There have been plenty of completely secular social, political, and belief systems that have been co-opted in the name of power and wealth. The tragedy that was nationalist socialism and communism being recent examples.

It's easy for us to point to jackass christian fundamentalists or other abuses because they are the ones we are most familiar with, but the only universality in human experiance is that "power corrupts" whether its  done in the name of Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Shiva, Dollars, Beanie Babies, etc. etc.

Quote from: JamesG on May 08, 2014, 08:41:42 AM
And... Christianity, or religion in general is not exclusive in abuse and manipulation.  There have been plenty of completely secular social, political, and belief systems that have been co-opted in the name of power and wealth. The tragedy that was nationalist socialism and communism being recent examples.

It's easy for us to point to jackass christian fundamentalists or other abuses because they are the ones we are most familiar with, but the only universality in human experiance is that "power corrupts" whether its  done in the name of Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Shiva, Dollars, Beanie Babies, etc. etc.

You got that right James. The road to hell is paved with good intentions in the beginning anyway. Socialism and communism are very good theories in thought and on paper. Everyone working together on a common goal, taking care of our fellow humans and not letting them suffer and so on. But when the human element is added into the mix with greed, powerlust, dellusions of granduer and striving to be the supreme leader, Eutopia turns into a living hell really quick.

Quote from: Jess42 on May 08, 2014, 09:00:14 AM
You got that right James. The road to hell is paved with good intentions in the beginning anyway. Socialism and communism are very good theories in thought and on paper. Everyone working together on a common goal, taking care of our fellow humans and not letting them suffer and so on. But when the human element is added into the mix with greed, powerlust, dellusions of granduer and striving to be the supreme leader, Eutopia turns into a living hell really quick.

(My emphasis above.)

I very much agree to this. I think bigotry, exclusion and so on are, in a sense, basic human traits - not everyone has them, but every group does. And it seems to be rather evenly distributed. What makes the religious kind of bigotry more visible, is in part media coverage, and in part the tendency of believers to focus more on spreading their message. So while your average, secular, areligious (or in many cases only nominally religious) bigot beats up someone outside a bar, the average religious bigot proclaims their views in church, town square or media. I'm not saying the latter is better, since it may influence some of the nominally religious; they pick up on the hate, but not the nonviolence. In a sense, the principle of double effect can be applied - while the message is to convert peacefully (in most cases), the result may be violence.

All of this said, some of the most wonderfully inclusive, open and unbigoted (if that is a word) individuals I've met are religious, and conservatively so. At the same time, some of the worst, hateful bigots I've encountered are religious. But I could just as well say that some of the most wonderful and so on individuals are atheists, while some of the worst and so on individuals are atheists. Given the size of the groups, you are bound to find all variants within them. I find it is rather evenly distributed - but I feel personally safer around religious bigots than areligious ones, even though they may worsen the total picture with regards to violence. Some of them may say some horrible things, but they won't beat me up physically. Then of course that can cause self-destructive behavior depending on the state of the recipient, so I'm definitely not saying it's harmless. I've told people of that sort that they have blood on their hands, since words can most definitely "pierce like a sword", as the Bible says.

To conclude, statements like "organized religion is the greatest source of evil in history" is to some extent correct. But the statement "organized religion is the greatest source of good in history" would also be correct, to some extent. Simply because organized religion is so big, that it's probably a factor in mostly everything that happens, both good and bad. This is why I refuse to make blanket statements about any religion - they're only partially true at best, and directly false at worst.