Where do we cross the line in compromising for people who are new to establishing possible relationships with trans* folk to make them feel comfortable and ease them into accepting our full identities authentically? Example - is it outright demeaning if one were to meet a person who assumed you cis and then upon your trans* disclosure and after many questions and their mini enlightenment, they decide they want to meet but not in public in fear of social criticism?

I wouldn't meet with them in private. If they can't get over being seen in public by strangers then I kind of don't want to be around somebody like that. Especially if you pass really well.

But for cis people who find themselves attracted to trans people, they have to get over their own issues and what their family and friends are going to think. They mostly don't want people to call them gay or whatever.

Quote from: TiffanyT on May 25, 2014, 03:30:14 PM
I wouldn't meet with them in private. If they can't get over being seen in public by strangers then I kind of don't want to be around somebody like that. Especially if you pass really well.

But for cis people who find themselves attracted to trans people, they have to get over their own issues and what their family and friends are going to think. They mostly don't want people to call them gay or whatever.

I understand you but for someone who never met or knew trans* people before to stumble upon you and you disclose and it's the first time they have ever been attracted knowingly to a trans* person, you don't think you should give them time to process and get comfortable? Is a few low-key dates for them to build up courage to face society too much?

Sounds like they just want to make sure you pass before they will be seen with you. My issue with that is that as soon as someone does clock you for whatever reason around him, then likely he will bail out quicker than an overturned ferry captain.

I guess the question is this:  Do you think that attitude has a chance of changing?   (I'm assuming your context is romantic relationships rather than platonic.  Platonic you can give a little more leeway to.) I would say it is as much (or more) about them accepting themselves as it is about them accepting you...and self acceptance, is often not a short road. They may not even want to see themselves differently, much less allow others to see them that way....now or ever. 
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I have a friend who has been out for quite some time.  She would often hear that same line from men ('not in public') after disclosure.  The problem is that just about all of them wanted her to be the 'woman on the side' or their 'dirty little secret' or 'booty call'.   They wanted to have sex with someone that had a penis, but not be seen as gay.   A few even did social things with her occasionally (though, again, not in the local public scene).  But one thing that was universal was that they weren't looking for a full relationship with her, they were just leading her along and using her at their convenience.  That is something I see as demeaning.
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I don't know the situation you're dealing with, or if the person is worth a little good faith or not...but I'm very skeptical, as every time I've heard of that line being used...the person isn't working toward acceptance of you and themselves...they're just trying to work you over and get what they want.  (of course, if you both want that, and don't care about a relationship, none of this really matters)
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So, "where do we cross the line in compromising", and help "ease [others] into accepting our full identities authentically?"     My line would be crossed as soon as someone asked/expected me to hide my authentic self.  If I knew them IRL as an acquaintance, I might meet them a couple of times (in a purely platonic sense) to see how they felt, and to see if there was any hope of that changing.  If this is some online person you've never met, I'd say don't meet them privately.  It may not be safe.  Overall, if someone expects you to hide in order to be in their life, they don't have your best interests at heart.

Your safety needs to be your primary concern.  And anyone who needs time to 'process' out of fear of social stigma isn't worth the time.  You want someone who's *proud* to walk down the street arm in arm with you.  You don't need to be their 'guinea pig' until they figure out where they stand.     ~V.

Quote from: llerret on May 25, 2014, 03:33:27 PM
I understand you but for someone who never met or knew trans* people before to stumble upon you and you disclose and it's the first time they have ever been attracted knowingly to a trans* person, you don't think you should give them time to process and get comfortable? Is a few low-key dates for them to build up courage to face society too much?

I think some time to process is ok. But presumably you met in public or somewhere. I mean, I don't imagine you walked into somebody's front door and said hi. I'm not saying to go have thanksgiving dinner with the whole family or anything, but meeting for coffee or dinner or something should be pretty low key and a safer environment. God forbid you get locked up in a house somewhere with somebody you don't even know very well.

I would definitely be careful about where/how you "meet" in private, but I kind of feel differently than most people I guess.  I know before I came to terms with this and accepted myself a couple months ago, I would have been cautious about meeting up with someone in an area where I knew everyone.  Not because there would be something wrong with them, but because there was something wrong with me.  Even though I masqueraded as an "ally" and would speak up for our rights and well being, it was too close to home.  Hell, I am just now ready to go to a trans meeting for the first time, and I am no where near telling anyone about it.  There are a lot of reasons why someone may be shy about that, and it doesn't mean that they are closed minded or a bad person......it may just mean that it is new to them and they need time to learn about and process everything. 

I would never cut off someone who wasn't one hundred percent "gung ho" of accepting me off the bat, especially if they seemed open to a friendship/relationship with me.  I would see them as someone who is still ahead of most people in my area and a potential friend and future ally of trans people. The way I see it is that the only way we are going to become accepted in the mainstream any time soon is if more cis people get to know us as people, grow to care for us individually and see that we aren't that much different from them. 

Quote from: Valerie on May 25, 2014, 05:39:12 PM
Your safety needs to be your primary concern.  And anyone who needs time to 'process' out of fear of social stigma isn't worth the time.  You want someone who's *proud* to walk down the street arm in arm with you.  You don't need to be their 'guinea pig' until they figure out where they stand.     ~V.

This is exactly how I feel concerning this. I know I'd be worried about my safety as well as being someones Guinea Pig.

Best Wishes!

Ally

Nobody should compramise WHO they are.
In terms of the word compramise means weaken :p Never weeken your safety.

Im met a guy in RL (nothing official yet) but, after metting a few times and hours long conversations, he invited me out. This was the day before a shave day. its a long story but i can only shave twice a week.

And i told him about my fear of somebody saying or doing somthing. and id rather not put him though that. his responce? sooooo? they can say what they like, it doesnt matter to me. and besides this is the 21 centuary its time poeple stopped being so old fashioned. your a great person and if sombody doesnt take the time to know that its their loss. tbh he said a lot more things. (i made quite the protest).

He might just be a great friend. its erly days yet, point is if ther is any care for who you are, they shouldnt be any subterfuge. or cloak and dagger behavour.

Compromise for no one. Ever. You are who you are, if someone doesn't like it screw 'em.

I think the whole no compromise thing is great in theory, but isn't really practical.  Everyone compromises to some extent.  Cis people, trans people, gay, lesbian, Martian....if you are a part of a group, you are compromising some part of yourself to be in that group.  Don't get me wrong, i def think there is a point to move on with people who don't move toward acceptance, but shutting the door in their face at the beginning does not seem productive or rational to me.  It happens to trans people so much, I am surprised we are so quick to do it to other people.

Quote from: Kylie on May 26, 2014, 12:25:01 AM
I think the whole no compromise thing is great in theory, but isn't really practical.  Everyone compromises to some extent.  Cis people, trans people, gay, lesbian, Martian....if you are a part of a group, you are compromising some part of yourself to be in that group.  Don't get me wrong, i def think there is a point to move on with people who don't move toward acceptance, but shutting the door in their face at the beginning does not seem productive or rational to me.  It happens to trans people so much, I am surprised we are so quick to do it to other people.

THIS!!!

Some people need time to ease in to the concept. That said, I still wouldn't be meeting someone for the first time in a non-public place, especially if I met them online or through a dating app.

I do try to compromise a lot when others' comfort is involved if I think they are capable of change. Obviously some people are hellbent on remaining ignorant and keeping them comfortable is not worthwhile. But some people just don't understand and will eventually if given enough information, and with them I set certain boundaries and then see how it goes.

Safety is super important. No matter what anyone's hangups are, refusal to meet in public is a red flag. I wouldn't indulge that myself.

Quote from: Felix on May 26, 2014, 06:06:06 AM

Safety is super important. No matter what anyone's hangups are, refusal to meet in public is a red flag. I wouldn't indulge that myself.

This. 1000x this.

As far as compromising on other things... I don't know it depends on what it is. 

Quote from: Kylie on May 26, 2014, 12:25:01 AM
I think the whole no compromise thing is great in theory, but isn't really practical.  Everyone compromises to some extent.  Cis people, trans people, gay, lesbian, Martian....if you are a part of a group, you are compromising some part of yourself to be in that group.  Don't get me wrong, i def think there is a point to move on with people who don't move toward acceptance, but shutting the door in their face at the beginning does not seem productive or rational to me.  It happens to trans people so much, I am surprised we are so quick to do it to other people.

Probably because we get hurt a lot and develop defensive mechanisms. I know the difference between people who tolerate me versus people who openly accept me without reservation. I don't think anyone is talking about shutting any doors ASAP, but talking about going on a date with a complete stranger. Go for a picnic or drinks or something.

Quote from: Kylie on May 26, 2014, 12:25:01 AM
I think the whole no compromise thing is great in theory, but isn't really practical.  Everyone compromises to some extent.  Cis people, trans people, gay, lesbian, Martian....if you are a part of a group, you are compromising some part of yourself to be in that group.  Don't get me wrong, i def think there is a point to move on with people who don't move toward acceptance, but shutting the door in their face at the beginning does not seem productive or rational to me.  It happens to trans people so much, I am surprised we are so quick to do it to other people.

OOOhh now i understand.
You mean as in comming too an arangement.


Yes a mutual understanding is great. (if you can get one)
If their worried about the same sorts of negative reaction we are, then we need to take that into consideration. That said though they still need to understand our concerns about meeting strangers in secluded places.

So a not so populated place, but not an isolated place either.
A Small amount of people as aposed to none and a lot.

Sorry took compramise to mean, sacrificing our position with no effort made on theirs. (its a defo no no) That works both ways too. I wouldnt blame cis person not dating a trans, if said trans had no regard for how they felt.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on May 26, 2014, 05:34:24 PM
That said though they still need to understand our concerns about meeting strangers in secluded places.

So a not so populated place, but not an isolated place either.
A Small amount of people as aposed to none and a lot.

Absolutely!  That sounds like a good compromise.  If they don't respect your safety concerns, I would definitely say see ya later.

I would not meet someone privat who could not be seen with me in public.

if they have a hard time or whatever or worry of meeting someone they know they can go somewhere really crowded or outside the country or they can say you are just friends, or coworkers or whatever relations, but the
thing hidding behind doors and not even could acknowledge you outside is very bad and dosen't lead to anything good.

I don't think its too much to ask for actually its at least what you should expect for any people.
I dont tell my friends or famely either that I can't meet up with them in public because I worry what people will think of me if they see them.