So I am having a hard time.

I went to my first support group meeting tonight, and like I always do, I sat quiet and distant. I suffer from significant anxiety, and am very socially awkward and as such have never really been able to develop real friendships. Oftentimes I see people here talking about how important friends and a support network is; what if you don't, and can't figure out how to establish that?

Even here I don't feel like I belong.

I know that, in general, women are more socially oriented creatures then men; my fear is that if I can't find my place here on Susan's,  probably the most friendly and inviting place I have tried, how could I ever hope to be accepted into the clan of womanhood?

Tonight I admired, even envied all the amazing women around me, as I do here whenever I log on. I long to be part of the community but any time I try I feel more distant from this goal then ever before.

I suppose I sound awfully whiny at this point so I guess I should wrap up. I would like to know what you all think; is there any hope for someone as socially inept as I am or is even moderate success a pipe dream?

There is always hope. She just doesn't always show herself.

It is usually easier to socialize when doing things that are familiar or comfortable. Have you thought about joining a club/group that shares a hobby?

It sounds like you need professional help. Maybe even some sort of medication. Have you sought some help for your anxiety issues?

Hi Hon,

Yes it can be difficult to meet new friends and deal with acceptance, but it happens over time. One good way to meet people here is to join in some of the game threads, that will boost your confidence and help you meet people at the same time.

Trust me, you're not the only one around here with social anxiety issues. My social anxiety kept me alone, isolated, sitting in front of a computer for the past eight years of my life. I could count the number of times I went out with a friend, or even someone who wasn't a member of my immediate family during that period on one hand. I never had much luck with medication, but recently I have started to work on creating new social connections. It's been frustrating, because my non-24 hour sleep wake disorder has complicated things and made it difficult to connect with people, but I have made a few really good connections over the past few months. It's been a very positive experience for me too, because I've discovered that I'm actually a lot more comfortable with female socialization than male socialization. It was always such a struggle for me to fit in as a boy, I assumed I was just bad at socialization in general. But when I really open up and be myself in a setting where I'm being recognized as female, everything just seems to fall into place. But especially when I was starting out, it took me a little practice, because I had trained myself to act male to the point where actually being myself required some effort. A lot of it was just breaking through the wall of inhibition. And I also had to think a little bit more about what I wanted to say and how I wanted to say it, so that I was able to project my thoughts in a way that actually matched the true feelings behind them. But more and more it's starting to become second nature, and it doesn't require nearly as much effort as it used to.

By the way, I like your avatar. Furi Kuri is my favorite anime.

I used to be painfully shy when I was younger, always holding back from getting involved with groups, always wondering why other people seemed to hit it off so easily and so frequently. Sometimes I still wonder that - I am, by nature a bit of a loner but I still enjoy and need regular social interaction. Learning to overcome my social inhibitions took years, and it also required me to be brave and realise that most people are OK, nobody (myself included) is perfect, and that not everyone wants to be your friend - not because they don't like you, they just have their own stuff going on.

Check these articles out, the first one is particularly insightful and useful, the second is a good list.

• 10 Useful Tips To Make New Friends
• 10 tips for making new friends

I recommend them because they cover most of what I had to realise and work through myself in terms of making friends. These days I (think I) come across as reasonably friendly but go back 20 years and it was a very different story.

An important thing to keep in mind is that not many people vibe well or for long with someone who is doom and gloom, most people don't want their friends to be difficult and always going on about their own stuff. You don't have to be the life of the party, just be as enthusiastic/cheery as you can muster, try to be relaxed and engage with people. You don't need to be erudite, but look at people and answer their questions/comments with engagement and more than two words.

A big part of making friends starts with you. You have to decide to overcome your fears and do things that get you involved with other people that might become good friends. Sitting at home and waiting for other people to contact you won't work.

So, once you have decided to get out there in the world the question becomes what can I do? There are lots of low pressure things you can do, such as volunteer or find a social group that is involved with an activity that you like.

Getting involved with activities such as these puts you in a situation where you are doing something with people that share a common interest.

Once you are in that situation you automatically have things to talk about with people and that's how friendships are formed.

Another tip - it's always good to get the other person talking about themselves (people love to do this) so listen intently when you first speak to someone and pick up topics that you can then ask the person about.

For example, if you say hey it's really nice to meet you - how did you get involved with this activity? The person will likely respond by saying something like I've been doing this for a year now, and I've always had a passion for this activity. You now have at least two different things to use for your next question - for example - what changes have you seen in the activity in the year you've been active, and what makes you passionate about the activity? 

Being social is a skill that we all have to work on. Make sure that you are carefully listening to the other person and not thinking about the next thing you want to say.

I would not recommend hanging out in bars to meet people and to try to make new friends. The chances of making a quality friend at a bar is very, very low.

I also like the links that Ms. Grace supplied.

WW, I'm having some of the same issues. I've always had trouble making friends with males, and when I was a male, it was nearly impossible to approach females for friendship without them thinking I wanted someone else.

So most of my connection was with my wife.

Who is now gone.

And I'm alone.

I've been able to connect with a some of the people on Susan's, but it took some effort. I now have some really good online friends, but there were some false starts also, where I PMed some people and they never responded, or responded with terse messages making it clear that I was not friend material.

As for friends IRL, that's a constant struggle. I made some progress by joining a church, but it seems like most people are too busy to find time for a new friend. Still, I keep trying. I've been trying to set up lunches with people at work.

Transitioning really helped. Women no longer eye me with suspicion when I want to be friends.

Good luck. I know I wasn't too helpful, but at least you know you're not alone.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on June 04, 2014, 03:19:49 AM
It sounds like you need professional help. Maybe even some sort of medication. Have you sought some help for your anxiety issues?

Yes, these difficulties are rooted in my awesome autistic wiring.

I appreciate everyone's replies and will take all of your advice to heart, but this actually wasn't what I was looking for with this thread. I was really looking for opinions on the prospects of a fruitful, albeit lonely, transition without being socially successful; though with the direction the responses it seems it doesn't look good.

I had more or less accepted my social ineptitude, which on some level I kind of thought made the idea of transition more acceptable; after all, no friends to lose, and I would most likely end up alone anyways.

Loneliness was something I thought I could continue to live with while continuing life as a dude was not. Perhaps this is the wrong perspective. I suppose this new beginning for me could be a chance to blossom anew in more ways than one.

Quote from: Eva Marie on June 04, 2014, 12:20:58 PM
A big part of making friends starts with you. You have to decide to overcome your fears and do things that get you involved with other people that might become good friends. Sitting at home and waiting for other people to contact you won't work.

So, once you have decided to get out there in the world the question becomes what can I do? There are lots of low pressure things you can do, such as volunteer or find a social group that is involved with an activity that you like.

Getting involved with activities such as these puts you in a situation where you are doing something with people that share a common interest.

Once you are in that situation you automatically have things to talk about with people and that's how friendships are formed.

Quote from: LordKAT on June 04, 2014, 01:46:20 AM
There is always hope. She just doesn't always show herself.

It is usually easier to socialize when doing things that are familiar or comfortable. Have you thought about joining a club/group that shares a hobby?

Yes I have, and I will continue to do this but I have found that no matter how much I seem to have in common with people I still always feel like an "other."

Quote from: Ms Grace on June 04, 2014, 04:25:31 AM
Check these articles out, the first one is particularly insightful and useful, the second is a good list.

• 10 Useful Tips To Make New Friends
• 10 tips for making new friends

Thanks for the links Ms. Grace, I will definitely try and work on these.

Quote from: suzifrommd on June 04, 2014, 12:32:29 PM
WW, I'm having some of the same issues. I've always had trouble making friends with males, and when I was a male, it was nearly impossible to approach females for friendship without them thinking I wanted someone else.

So most of my connection was with my wife.

Who is now gone.

And I'm alone.

I've been able to connect with a some of the people on Susan's, but it took some effort. I now have some really good online friends, but there were some false starts also, where I PMed some people and they never responded, or responded with terse messages making it clear that I was not friend material.

As for friends IRL, that's a constant struggle. I made some progress by joining a church, but it seems like most people are too busy to find time for a new friend. Still, I keep trying. I've been trying to set up lunches with people at work.

Transitioning really helped. Women no longer eye me with suspicion when I want to be friends.

Good luck. I know I wasn't too helpful, but at least you know you're not alone.

Quote from: Miyuki on June 04, 2014, 04:05:54 AM
Trust me, you're not the only one around here with social anxiety issues. My social anxiety kept me alone, isolated, sitting in front of a computer for the past eight years of my life. I could count the number of times I went out with a friend, or even someone who wasn't a member of my immediate family during that period on one hand. I never had much luck with medication, but recently I have started to work on creating new social connections. It's been frustrating, because my non-24 hour sleep wake disorder has complicated things and made it difficult to connect with people, but I have made a few really good connections over the past few months. It's been a very positive experience for me too, because I've discovered that I'm actually a lot more comfortable with female socialization than male socialization. It was always such a struggle for me to fit in as a boy, I assumed I was just bad at socialization in general. But when I really open up and be myself in a setting where I'm being recognized as female, everything just seems to fall into place. But especially when I was starting out, it took me a little practice, because I had trained myself to act male to the point where actually being myself required some effort. A lot of it was just breaking through the wall of inhibition. And I also had to think a little bit more about what I wanted to say and how I wanted to say it, so that I was able to project my thoughts in a way that actually matched the true feelings behind them. But more and more it's starting to become second nature, and it doesn't require nearly as much effort as it used to.

This does make me hopeful. It is reassuring to know that I am not the only one who feels like I do and that there is some hope. I have always seemed to get along better with girls, though I never built any real friendships. Perhaps I am admitting defeat too early and need to be more patient.

I have to say, the idea of sending an unsolicited PM absolutely terrifies me.

Quote from: Miyuki on June 04, 2014, 04:05:54 AM
By the way, I like your avatar. Furi Kuri is my favorite anime.

I just recently discovered it I had never really got into anime before but I really enjoyed it. It has been a desire of mine for many years to be the cute, quirky girl on a vespa, and the fact that Haruko is an alien seemed all the more apt.

Quote from: WaspWoman on June 04, 2014, 01:30:23 AM
I suppose I sound awfully whiny

Whiney is good.

I feel that the whole 'need to form a support network to successfully transition' meme is based on the idea that most people prefer the company of others.

I am a bit of a loner, as is my youngest daughter. Both of us are quite at ease with this, it is part of who we are. I don't feel that it should be expected of anyone to pretend to be anyone other than who they are in order to 'fit in'. If you are happy with your own company and uneasy in a crowd then why place yourself in an uncomfortable situation?

Rosie

Hiya WW,

In the first couple of years after transition, I was so insanely shy that I practically turned to stone if someone I didn't know spoke to me.  Something in me wasn't satisfied with hiding out in my big house all alone, staring at a computer monitor.  I discovered a fairly unusual but extremely helpful route for learning to socialize as a woman among women.  Al-Anon.

For the first few months I would show up at Al-Anon meetings and sit alone in the back of the room.  I was so shy that my hair always covered up the entire right side of my face.  Yes, I literally hid behind my hair, peeking with one eye at the activity around me.  People were friendly; women would approach me, introduce themselves, engage me in conversation for a minute or 2, and then leave me alone.  Slowly over time, as I got to know the women a little, I started opening up more.

The thing about a 12 step program like Al-Anon is that pretty much everyone there, no matter how outgoing and happy they seem, showed up at their first meetings damaged and withdrawn.  People there expect newcomers to be frail and shy.  They are very understanding and allowing of people who need to talk about themselves, or who need to remain silent.  It was exactly what I needed, and I appreciated the very gentle way that those women coaxed me out of my shell.

Eventually I got comfortable enough to stand up and speak to rooms with as many as 100 people, all looking and listening to me.  At first when I would stand up and speak, I would allow my hair to cover my face completely so that I could barely see anyone, and they couldn't see me.  (The day eventually came when we all laugh about the voice emanating from the curtain of hair.)  Over time I made real friends.  I always felt included as groups of women would go to dinner together, or to the movies, and they would always invite me.  And much was made of the first time I showed up at a meeting with my hair tied back and everyone saw my whole face for the first time.  (I have never hidden behind my hair again since that day.)

For 2 years I showed up at 8 Al-Anon meetings every week.  I went so much because it felt so good to be included, to be making friends, to be accepted as a woman among women.  It was a spectacular way to begin my transition, and one that I just stumbled on.  I believe that the friendship and support that I received there dramatically enhanced my confidence and success as the woman I was becoming. 

Anyway, that was my experience.  I thought I'd share.

Be well.

After coming out of hiding from three and a half decades of drug use, I was a total social misfit.  I had no idea what or why people were saying the things they were and I constantly wanted to slink off and blend into the background so as to fade out of others social radar.  Over time (18 years now) I gradually took tiny risks and each one led to another.  I understand that the circumstances that caused my situation is probably much different (maybe) than yours BUT the obstacles are the same.  Just one thing to try to hold onto no matter what, there isnt a thing that you cannot do, as long as you do not give up.  Love, Dani

Quote from: WaspWoman on June 04, 2014, 01:30:23 AM
So I am having a hard time.

I went to my first support group meeting tonight, and like I always do, I sat quiet and distant. I suffer from significant anxiety, and am very socially awkward and as such have never really been able to develop real friendships. Oftentimes I see people here talking about how important friends and a support network is; what if you don't, and can't figure out how to establish that?

Even here I don't feel like I belong.

I know that, in general, women are more socially oriented creatures then men; my fear is that if I can't find my place here on Susan's,  probably the most friendly and inviting place I have tried, how could I ever hope to be accepted into the clan of womanhood?

Tonight I admired, even envied all the amazing women around me, as I do here whenever I log on. I long to be part of the community but any time I try I feel more distant from this goal then ever before.

I suppose I sound awfully whiny at this point so I guess I should wrap up. I would like to know what you all think; is there any hope for someone as socially inept as I am or is even moderate success a pipe dream?

Well, I have been like that my whole life. I don't know how I came about having trouble connecting socially to people, even when a child I always played quietly by myself, other children would have to come to me in order for me to play with them (I had friends, but very few), and while it was said by many that I'd grow out of it, come out of my shell, I'm still the same. Always the quiet one standing off in the distance, watching others being happy amongst each other, and happy for them, but wondering, why can't I be like them. It should be easy, looks easy enough, but its not, and the fear, and inability to know how to relate to others, just seems so illogical.

Perhaps its just my personality, but I think some part of it has to do with being uncomfortable in my own body, probably was from the get go. While I didn't have any noticeable connection then of wanting to be a girl, there was little hints here and there that later in my life (once an adult) I came to recognize. When I knew I wasn't 'right' (as in cis-normal) was when puberty hit, I went from just being a shy, quiet, gentle natured kid, to becoming even more withdrawn, uncomfortable with myself and not knowing why yet, and super friggin' depressed, and lots of anger, and occasional outbursts of physical rage. The hormones once I got on them got all that under control, but I still don't feel right with my body (because its wrong) so I continue to stay safely in my comfort zone, alone. I used to think that I was content with that, but really its far from it. And every time someone does try to give me a chance, I blow it. Maybe I simply just don't have the energy to put into it,as it is it tires me out something terrible being out there with all those people.

Hi
Quite a few things said in this thread resonate with me. Anxiety. Social awkwardness (or at least perceived). Reading through the linked pages, so thanks Grace, even though they weren't posted for me.
The part about always feeling apart, like an 'other' is common too. There are few people I don't feel this around. I feel it in general, like I'm just somehow different from most people. I wondered whether it was just the GD kicking up a fuss, but so far, ~6 months since starting hrt and being seen as female recently while out and about, it hasn't really changed. Now I feel like a 'female other' rather than a 'male other'. Guess that's what happens when your school identity was as the 'weird one among weirdo's' and 'mad scientist' 

Quote from: Megan Joanne on June 04, 2014, 03:47:23 PM
Well, I have been like that my whole life. I don't know how I came about having trouble connecting socially to people, even when a child I always played quietly by myself, other children would have to come to me in order for me to play with them (I had friends, but very few), and while it was said by many that I'd grow out of it, come out of my shell, I'm still the same.

It should be easy, looks easy enough, but its not, and the fear, and inability to know how to relate to others, just seems so illogical.

Perhaps its just my personality, but I think some part of it has to do with being uncomfortable in my own body, probably was from the get go.

I used to think that I was content with that, but really its far from it. And every time someone does try to give me a chance, I blow it.

Maybe I simply just don't have the energy to put into it,as it is it tires me out something terrible being out there with all those people.

Yeah, depression makes it hard to try. I think hormones play a role though, at least for me. Have to see when my E dose goes up. But a combination of both makes it sort of hard to think of things to say, takes too long. Too much energy and effort and the depression kills the motivation. At least when speaking. The amazing thing about text chat stuff is that delays are more acceptable/expected so there isn't so much pressure/awkwardness. Gives time to think of things to say, check it conveys what I mean and such.
Even if it becomes easier, there will still be a large learning curve. Pretty sure my natural way of talking, expressing things is different to most people, which also makes it harder. It's pretty amazing to find people who communicate in a similar way, even if they are rare. Even so, I still have a couple of people I consider friends, so it's not hopeless 

Anyway, I wouldn't give up or get too worried about it. It'll just add more pressure and concern. That will make it harder to have a healthy attitude towards improving your social skills. It'll be harder to deal with failures. As they will have more perceived importance, the failures/setbacks will seem more significant and devastating than they really are. At least, that's how I view it.

As for the forums, it seems like on a large forum such as this it takes maybe 100-200 posts for people to really start to get an idea of who you might be.

I'd say, keep posting and responding.
That's my plan, anyway

Quote from: MacG on June 04, 2014, 05:50:33 PM
As for the forums, it seems like on a large forum such as this it takes maybe 100-200 posts for people to really start to get an idea of who you might be.

I'd say, keep posting and responding.
That's my plan, anyway

Certainly. But if you're of the socially anxious persuasion, it can seem like people don't care when really it's like you say. You just haven't been around long. It's a good plan    Maybe add not being afraid to PM too.

Ha! I'm a little too shy to PM much but that's a good idea, too.

Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on June 04, 2014, 02:31:49 PM
Whiney is good.

I feel that the whole 'need to form a support network to successfully transition' meme is based on the idea that most people prefer the company of others.

I am a bit of a loner, as is my youngest daughter. Both of us are quite at ease with this, it is part of who we are. I don't feel that it should be expected of anyone to pretend to be anyone other than who they are in order to 'fit in'. If you are happy with your own company and uneasy in a crowd then why place yourself in an uncomfortable situation?

Rosie

Yeah, a lot of the time I do feel this way, I just suppose I would rather it be by my own choice 

Teehee, so I just put on Star Trek TNG for the first time in months and I happened to have left off on S4E11

Data's Day
"Second officer Lt. Commander Data accepted to speak a complete record of a day in his functioning for the benefit of scientific android engineer Commander Maddox and concludes his programming must be improved concerning interaction with human emotions, most puzzling given human practices such as irony."

I thought it was fitting