So, I have an upcoming appointment to have my molars removed this week, the problem is, the person paying for it has made me agree to not tell them I'm trans, a woman and that I wish to be called so I can't tell them anything. This normally wouldn't be an issue except, one of the things they'll be doing requires me to probably have them lift my shirt up to attach some sticky thingy's to be able to read stuff. This in turn presents a problem since, I'm REALLY not comfortable with going out without my bra on and I only have 1 type of bra, a wired one with straps (I have 4 of them), plus, as sad as it is, even though I do have breasts and even though these aren't push up bras, without the bra on my breasts look smaller. This in turn means my ride, the one who is making me go through this crap (otherwise they won't pay for it..) will probably be able to tell the difference and I seriously don't wish to hear anything on it or them notice. Plus, the doc/staff at the place might be able to tell too.. I also hate how my nips poke through the shirt so am debating whether to use a band aid on them or not to keep them from doing that. However, if I DO wear my bra, how in the hell am I supposed to keep them from seeing it when they lift up my shirt!!? >_<

Really, I need to know what to do here? Have any tips? I know some woman go out without a bra on and I myself would LOVE to be able to not feel embarrassed etc. by doing so, sadly that isn't the case but, how do they do it? 

You certainly described a very odd situation. I think the bottom line, though, is that the underwear a person wears is their business and no one else's. You are going to a medical facility and trust me in saying they see most everything, so it's not going to matter to them if you wear a bra to the place. If you are going to be under an anesthetic they may have you undress and put on a hospital gown with no underwear so it won't matter then, anyway. However, I've had plenty of dental work before myself and dentists don't generally need to work with anything below your chin.

~ Lyric ~

Quote from: Lyric on June 04, 2014, 08:54:58 PM
You certainly described a very odd situation. I think the bottom line, though, is that the underwear a person wears is their business and no one else's. You are going to a medical facility and trust me in saying they see most everything, so it's not going to matter to them if you wear a bra to the place. If you are going to be under an anesthetic they may have you undress and put on a hospital gown with no underwear so it won't matter then, anyway. However, I've had plenty of dental work before myself and dentists don't generally need to work with anything below your chin.

~ Lyric ~

This isn't your typical dentist. Also, from what I gather I'll be wearing the clothes I come in with, just, I can't wear tight clothes but I made up an excuse without referring to myself and asked the desk lady if woman can wear their bras during the operation and she said yes. Also, if I DO wear the bra, and said person notices, well, you can bet this will cause trouble... I hate this. -_-

One time, back when we still lived in Virginia, I had a new doctor that my therapist sent me to because I had told her that I didn't like my endo that I had in DC. Well, anyway I went to this new doctor only once, got the hormones no problem and he didn't tell me to take off my clothes and touchy feel everywhere like my last doctor did, and didn't try to force me to get a breast examine when I had but mosquito bites for boobs, so I thought, cool, I like this guy. But next time I went back to see him, he wasn't there at that office anymore, and actually when I asked about it they wouldn't tell me, but one of the other doctors saw me instead. What they didn't tell me at first was that they weren't qualified to give me the hormones, that I'd have to also go to someone else that of coarse happened to be known by that doctor, naturally, money in their pocket, money for their friend's as well, that's how business works.

But I got an examine because I was also suffering from some really severe anxiety (had been since I was in my teens), the doctor told me this and that he was sure nothing else was wrong with me. But, lets take some tests anyway. One test for my heart rate, the other for lung strength (since I was having trouble catching my breath). Another doctor there saw my for this, had me lay down, and was going to attach all these (I don't know what the heck they're called) things to different parts of my body so they can do their whole reading thing. I wasn't expecting any of this, just was going there for hormone refill, a very quick check-up by my one time only doctor that wasn't there anymore.

I wasn't wearing a bra. Ah f@#$ it. I'm sure they've seen plenty of boobies in their life, business and pleasure. It was too difficult for him to get under my shirt (I don't remember what exactly I was wearing that I didn't have a bra on) so I just pulled my top off. I could tell it took him by surprise, but he continued with his job. Heart fine. Lungs very strong. I can't recall if I had bloodwork done, but they told me I was healthy, and prescribed me some medicine for the anxiety (which all that did was make me sleep a lot). When I was checking out I did see and hear those two doctors talking to each other (couldn't understand since they were talking in Spanish), but the one that did the tests was smiling about something. I wonder how that guy's day went? If anything I probably made someone (or something) very happy. Probably told the other doctor later, and he was probably like, damn, you lucky bastard. Yes, they are doctors, but they are also human, and I'm sure he wasn't expecting to see nipple just jump out at him like that.

Can't see why a dentist would need to lift up your shirt though (but then again, what do I know, I've only ever been to a dentist once in my life, I was a kid then). Hey, hey doc, my teeth are up here!

Unfortunately, you -will- have to tell them.  If you are on hormones, the E can affect how your blood clots..  you -must- tell them, as the doc will likely have to make adjustments for the surgery.  No, not kidding, if you're gonna get cut, you'll have to tell, it is for your own safety.

Quote from: Paula Christine on June 04, 2014, 09:56:23 PM
Unfortunately, you -will- have to tell them.  If you are on hormones, the E can affect how your blood clots..  you -must- tell them, as the doc will likely have to make adjustments for the surgery.  No, not kidding, if you're gonna get cut, you'll have to tell, it is for your own safety.

Ah, yea, I certainly would if that was the case but it's not. I don't take anything except 1 supplement pill which isn't even a hormone and even then I told them that I took said supplement. The only problem I have at this point is, what said person is forcing me to do otherwise I'll have to come up with the money myself to pay to get my molars removed. Since this is a once in a life time thing (hopefully, unless something goes wrong, best I not think on that though), I don't mind going to certain lengths if they'll pay for it however, it still comes down to the bra and the person paying for this..

Ok, if it is not a hormone, bio-identical, or meant to mimic estrogen, then you should be ok. 

I dont understand why you need to lift your shirt at a dentist to remove your molars. I have never been asked to remove my shirt at a dentist ever...At most they give you nitrous oxide which is laughing gas or a numming shot in your gums. If you do worry, then wear a t shirt under your outer top.

Quote from: warlockmaker on June 04, 2014, 10:46:05 PM
I dont understand why you need to lift your shirt at a dentist to remove your molars. I have never been asked to remove my shirt at a dentist ever...At most they give you nitrous oxide which is laughing gas or a numming shot in your gums. If you do worry, then wear a t shirt under your outer top.

As I said before

Quote from: Shana-chan on June 04, 2014, 08:36:43 PM
This normally wouldn't be an issue except, one of the things they'll be doing requires me to probably have them lift my shirt up to attach some sticky thingy's to be able to read stuff.

They are going to be monitoring my condition and such (Pulse, oxygen levels and more) through other ways besides this but this is the only one I see being a problem but for my safety, it's best they attach those sticky thingies which again requires me to lift up my shirt so they can attach them.

Quote from: Shana-chan on June 04, 2014, 08:36:43 PM
So, I have an upcoming appointment to have my molars removed this week, the problem is, the person paying for it has made me agree to not tell them I'm trans, a woman and that I wish to be called so I can't tell them anything. This normally wouldn't be an issue except, one of the things they'll be doing requires me to probably have them lift my shirt up to attach some sticky thingy's to be able to read stuff. This in turn presents a problem since, I'm REALLY not comfortable with going out without my bra on and I only have 1 type of bra, a wired one with straps (I have 4 of them), plus, as sad as it is, even though I do have breasts and even though these aren't push up bras, without the bra on my breasts look smaller. This in turn means my ride, the one who is making me go through this crap (otherwise they won't pay for it..) will probably be able to tell the difference and I seriously don't wish to hear anything on it or them notice. Plus, the doc/staff at the place might be able to tell too.. I also hate how my nips poke through the shirt so am debating whether to use a band aid on them or not to keep them from doing that. However, if I DO wear my bra, how in the hell am I supposed to keep them from seeing it when they lift up my shirt!!? >_<

Really, I need to know what to do here? Have any tips? I know some woman go out without a bra on and I myself would LOVE to be able to not feel embarrassed etc. by doing so, sadly that isn't the case but, how do they do it?

So the dentist will have to put some electrodes on you I'm assuming to monitor your heart?   

There's no way to avoid them seeing your bra if they have to monitor your heart.  Of course you can always say you were trying out for a part in a play and forgot to take your bra off. 

Is it possible to wear a jacket or something that covers up your front so you won't have to listen to the person who's giving you a ride and paying for the procedure? 

In terms of whether or not to wear a bandaid I wonder if wearing a thick shirt would help. It's what I used to do to try to cover everything up. I don't know hot hot it is where you are though.

It sounds like one of those situations where no matter what you do you're going to be uncomfortable. It seems like your ultimate goal is to get the molars pulled (which would be mine too if I were in your situation).  It's too bad that this person is putting you in this position.

Quote from: TRyan on June 04, 2014, 10:58:00 PM
So the dentist will have to put some electrodes on you I'm assuming to monitor your heart?   

There's no way to avoid them seeing your bra if they have to monitor your heart.  Of course you can always say you were trying out for a part in a play and forgot to take your bra off. 

Is it possible to wear a jacket or something that covers up your front so you won't have to listen to the person who's giving you a ride and paying for the procedure? 

In terms of whether or not to wear a bandaid I wonder if wearing a thick shirt would help. It's what I used to do to try to cover everything up. I don't know hot hot it is where you are though.

It sounds like one of those situations where no matter what you do you're going to be uncomfortable. It seems like your ultimate goal is to get the molars pulled (which would be mine too if I were in your situation).  It's too bad that this person is putting you in this position.

Yes, heart I believe is why. The thingies will be on 3 different parts of my chest, top left, top right and the last one is like on/near the belly but if middle/lower right I think.

I don't think that'd work since I'm not in school anymore..was a good one though.

It is not. Not a jacket, thick shirt nor a t-shirt under the shirt. I have to wear comfy clothes that are light, not tight.. plus it is hot out now so, a jacket would be VERY suspicious to the person giving mt the ride not to mention the doc/staff.

Quote from: CandiceSkirvin on June 04, 2014, 11:18:44 PM
The electrodes you're talking about that get placed on your chest are for ecg. The only reason I can see for this is if you are to be placed under general anesthesia. Most dental procedures are done with local anesthesia only and do not require a heightened level of monitoring. The fact that you are having multiple teeth pulled (you said molars, right? plural? which ones by the way? why?) might be why general anesthesia is being used. Do you know for sure if it will be general anesthesia? If it's just going to be local then there is very likely not going to be ecg involved and you can wear your bra as there will be no need for you to remove your shirt. I can't see any reason for ecg, but I have only completed 1st year med school so far.

If ecg is going to happen placement of the electrodes requires you have your chest completely exposed (no bra) as most of the leads are placed where a bra would cover the skin. So, I recommend not wearing a bra. Your breasts, if mentioned, you can just say you have gynecomastia (male breast enlargement). OR you could cancel the procedure and schedule individual procedures so that only a local anesthetic is required.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Edit to add: If local is being used and not general then your pulse and O₂ will be monitored by a pulse oximeter placed over your finger.

Like I said, there are more ways they're monitoring my health than just this. lol There's the thing on the finger being 1, then there' the 3 thingies on my chest being 2, the 3rd will be a blood pressure pump that takes my blood pressure every few secs/mins. Besides this, they're giving me laughing gas, plus an IV plus anesthesia in the mouth. (The IV I think is the shot they were talking about in the arm) I was told I won't really remember much of the event (Which is a scary thought actually as I'm paranoid about someone doing something to me) and during the event though I will be asleep in a sense, but I'll still be conscious enough to do what they need me to like take a deep breath. Does this help tell you what they're doing and what advice can you now give?

Speaking of all this, just want to make sure of something here, me being trans (MtF) but not on any hormones/drugs shouldn't cause any problems with the meds/molar removal they're giving me/going to do should it? I'm unable to tell them so, that's why I need to know.

Quote from: CandiceSkirvin on June 05, 2014, 12:20:25 AM
You make me wish I were a dentistry student or further along in med school.  lol
It sounds like you know for sure exactly what they're going to do, and that it does include a 3 lead ecg.  So, you'll have 3 electrodes: 1 below left clavicle on left shoulder, 1 below right clavicle on right shoulder, and 1 at the apex of your heart (left side of your body below left pectoral muscle, almost straight down from the one at your left shoulder / clavicle).

Bra straps would interfere with the clavicle leads, and if you're going to be having ecg then you'll have to have your shirt raised for electrode placement.  You'd be better off not wearing your bra.  I'm sorry.  I know that sucks, but given the situation it seems best.  ((((hugs))))

Are you saying the bra would need to be removed in order to attach the things? If so, that's the part that's not right as I was told woman can wear their bras during the procedure. (By the desk lady I'll add but still..) Otherwise, everything else sounds like you described it and I only know what they're doing because the doc explained it to me. Maybe I should give them a call later today and ask them the name of what they were doing?

Is your ride, who is paying for this procedure, actually going to be in the operating theatre with you when the procedure takes place? If not, you can wear whatever you like and tell the doctors whatever you like behind closed doors.

You have a right to privacy when consulting with medical professionals and having procedures done, so unless there's a good reason for your ride going into the theatre with you or talking to the doctors with you, you should be able to insist that they wait for you out in the waiting room. You can then have your consultation in private, and you can choose to disclose you're trans* at that point and remove your bra at the appropriate moment if that is required.

Your ride has no right to see you in your underwear without your permission. Nor do they have the right to dictate what type of underwear it should be.

Quote from: FTMDiaries on June 05, 2014, 09:16:18 AM
Is your ride, who is paying for this procedure, actually going to be in the operating theatre with you when the procedure takes place? If not, you can wear whatever you like and tell the doctors whatever you like behind closed doors.

You have a right to privacy when consulting with medical professionals and having procedures done, so unless there's a good reason for your ride going into the theatre with you or talking to the doctors with you, you should be able to insist that they wait for you out in the waiting room. You can then have your consultation in private, and you can choose to disclose you're trans* at that point and remove your bra at the appropriate moment if that is required.

Your ride has no right to see you in your underwear without your permission. Nor do they have the right to dictate what type of underwear it should be.

Totally agree.

Quote from: CandiceSkirvin on June 05, 2014, 09:22:05 AM
The only reason you're not going with your bra is so you're not outed. Right? Yes, the leads for the ecg can be placed under bra material, but I thought the whole reason you're asking this here is that you are to not be yourself during this procedure, that the dentist discovering your bra would be a bad thing. I was trying to help along those lines. But yes, the truth is that the electrode placement for a 3-lead ecg can be done with your bra on, but I can still imagine many cases where the patient would be asked to remove it, especially if her breasts were large and the electrode placed for the apex of the heart had to placed under the breast itself. But I am assuming that is not an issue for you yet.

I wish I had an easy answer for you. The only thing preventing the easy answer of 'wear your bra! you're a woman!' is the fact that discovery of your female gender by this dentist would be bad for you. So I still advise not wearing it. Unless I am misreading this and discovery by your dentist would be okay for you. After all, your dentist has a doctor-patient relationship with you and cannot disclose your information without your consent to this person taking you/paying the bill. If he/she were to disclose this information you could file suit as the dentist would definitely be in violation of HIPAA. If that's the case then wear your bra if you think your ride/money provider won't notice.

You've not misunderstood a thing Haruhi. (Do you mind if I call you that as long as you have her avi? If you mind I won't lol awesome avi btw!) See, I myself would rather be myself and come out to then, vs. all this crap I'm having to put up with and they make it oh so hard every time they call me my birth name or sir. lol But, the thing that's preventing me is the person paying for the bill, which, more answers for this are below but, simply wearing a bra and them discovering it doesn't necessarily out me as trans. Cross dresser/gay (maybe, not sure) and yes trans but, still, it does cause problems. The thing is, I may have to go to the damn grocery store without a bra on if I don't wear one. Further more, the thought of having to put up with hearing anything about my breasts from the person if they notice I'm not wearing a bra is too much, like wise same with if they notice I'm wearing one, they might start crap and say, take it off, we had an agreement and if you argue with me, no ride and I won't pay for it.. I don't wish to go out in town without my bra on and the doc's office is bad enough, let alone in front of this person and not to mention while grocery shopping.. see below for more on this. lol

Quote from: FTMDiaries on June 05, 2014, 09:16:18 AM
Is your ride, who is paying for this procedure, actually going to be in the operating theatre with you when the procedure takes place?

You have a right to privacy when consulting with medical professionals

Your ride has no right to see you in your underwear without your permission. Nor do they have the right to dictate what type of underwear it should be.

No, I asked and they don't allow them to be back there.

True though I also did sign the person giving me the ride to allow the doc to disclose medical info. So, I'm not certain if they would disclose that I told them or not and thus, since I ok'd it they can't get in trouble with the law.

Of course they don't have a right, but, even if they don't see me naked I'm sure they'll be able to tell I am wearing a bra as, they've made comments to me about it and really I hate having to put up with this crap. If I didn't need the money and or could pay for this myself, I would do so instead of putting up with this. It's a very sad thing I'm more worried about what all might happen/go wrong with the person paying for this starting crap with me vs. the actual wisdom teeth being removed themselves. -_- Oh and yes, they don't have the right to ask me to do anything however, then "I" might get stuck with the bill and that's why, I seriously hate how this person is, it's wrong to do this to someone period!

Also, I should note, I'm an overly honest person, I don't like going behind people's backs and if I tell someone I'll do something, and go back on my word, well, that A) will ALWAYS come back to bite me in the butt (As anything bad I do does whether intentional or not -_- and B) I'd feel guilty and such and it wouldn't sit well with me.

Quote from: CandiceSkirvin on June 05, 2014, 02:19:03 PM
I don't mind if you call me Haruhi. I like it. And thanks, I love the avi too. Haruhi is the closest I've found to an anime version of myself in terms of personality and physical appearance.   

I wish I had more and/or better advice regarding your situation, but I have never been in your situation and don't really know what to say. I really want to say something like 'tell your ride to stuff it. you're going to be true to yourself regardless.' but I don't think that's very good advice if you need this multiple molar extraction and this person is paying for it.

Maybe you could try having a heart to heart with this person and try to make them see the error of their ways. I don't know. What is your intuition telling you?

Awesome! You're welcome and thank you for having such a cool avi, makes me happy for some reason. Cool, a real life Haruhi.

It's alright, talking to you and the others here has helped me and, whatever will be will be/happens happens. I've already got a few ideas as what to do.

Not sure for this.. as for, a heart to heart, try spending 24 hrs of your life (Literally, I'm not exaggerating here)  and then some typing up emails and informing the person of as much as I can, followed by many other talks and some heart to heart yet, all I get is, difficulty and, full rejection. lol So, yeah, won't work, especially when the person has said they won't hear of or talk about it no more. lol

Anyway, it's almost time for my appointment so, wish me luck Haruhi!

Will you let us know what you ended up doing? 

I'm curious...   

Dang, I'm late to this thread.

If it's surgical removal of teeth, most oral surgeons like to work under a general or IV sedation.

If it's a general, then yes, ECG, pulse oximetry, etc etc.  They would generally also have you change into a hospital gown (at least in Australia).   The comfy loose clothing Is to make sure you have as easy time of it getting home after day surgery.  I would think that the bra would be removed prior to surgery, so it's kinda moot.

IV sedation generally only requires pulse oximetry to monitor O2 levels as you are maintaining your own airway and breathing.

As far as E and anti androgen, they would be considered minor issues and usually no additional allowances are made for tooth removal and post op bleeding, unless there has been previous history of deep vein thrombosis.  It's more an issue for any post op antibiotics - they will affect E uptake if you are on orals (not significantly, but the effect is there).

Shana, I Hope it all goes well and you have a swift recovery!

I'd planned too TRyan, so, for anyone who wanted to know what I did and how it went, read on!

*Update*

So, I had a few things I'd decided to do, I said, if this person picks me up and takes me there like last time I'd wear the bra but on the other hand, if the person who was supposed to take me last time takes me this time (The person I was worrying would notice/say something) then I won't wear my bra. I was thinking of ways to explain how they'd shrunk and so on. So here is what I did and what happened.

I wore no bra, instead I put a normal sized band aid over my nips (One for each nip), I had to adjust it some to make sure they didn't poke through and success, no nips poking through the whole time. I also thought to say to the ride if they said anything, hey, it's called expansion (grows larger)/de-expansion (shrinks) from heat/cold. (Heat being expansion while cold being de-expansion, though I was burning up and have been so, that wouldn't have worked if they'd touched me) Luckily, while doing the band aids I thought of a MUCH better idea to were it would be hard for anyone to tell/notice and say for sure I wasn't wearing my bra. I typically tuck in my shirt into my pants, pretty much because of my hair on my body, I don't want anyone seeing it (Mainly my back but some stubble for the front) so, then it hit me, just don't tuck in the shirt and it won't be as tight so, that will work, just got to be careful not to expose the hair is all. (Plus, I did have the excuse of not to wear tight clothing so, not having it tucked in made more sense but not like you have to tuck your shirt in anyway) I also had the thought process of, if woman can walk out into public without a bra on then so can I and that doesn't make them or me any less of a woman, same with the size of a woman's breasts. (Whether she has them or not or tiny/Hugh, she's still a woman if she says she is)

So, how'd it go? Well, it went extremely well. There was an incident where my body didn't react right to the laughing gas (Too much of it for my body's liking, others can handle the amount they gave me, I on the other hand can't so they gave me small amounts) and I thought I was going into cardiac arrest but they gave me air and changed things up, said all my reading were fine and no further incidents, besides some bleeding out of no where from one of the extraction sites but I was told that was normal and instructed on what to do and so far, it's been fine. Still taking it easy though. As for the ride, he never said a word to me, hopefully that stays that way plus I'll have to do this once more for the follow up appointment so hopefully this will be the last time. Anyway, the ride took me to the store to get food I needed, only at the pharmacy did they misgender me and even after I told them, "I'm sure you know to be respectful to me as I've been to you, thanks." I figure, they think it was ok since they'd be seeing my name and all but it wasn't, I didn't take the chance when we went up to another counter and waited for them for a few mins else where. Still, besides that, it went very well and if you're wondering, there was hardly any pain at all and what little pain I felt was bearable. Oh and, they didn't use an IV or the ECG so they didn't have to lift up my shirt. The reason why they didn't is because if they did, I'd have to have someone with me for 24 hrs and I was going to have to spend the night at the ride's house so I chose, nope, not doing that and no IV unless I need it, luckily I didn't need it. Oh and, I didn't feel embarrassed without my bra on in public, though if the nips were poking through that might have been a different story so, remember those band aids people.

If anything else happens, I'll give you all another update here.