Hypothetical situation:  Say you've chosen to transition & completed it to  your satisfaction.  You pass really well, though you might have some slight physical characteristics of the sex you were assigned at birth, which would only be noticable if someone were paying attention.  You're living stealth.             

Now, you're in some sort of group--church, work, soccer team, writer's group, whatever.  To your knowledge, no one in the group knows your trans* and you like it that way.  You feel confident that your group completely sees & accepts you as a member of the gender you are.  An 'out' trans* person joins the group--maybe they're vocal about being trans*, or they have a transgender flag on their keychain, or something. 

Does the presence of the new person make you fear being found out?  Do you think you'd feel comfortable associating with them or might you be inclined to be more aloof? Do you think you'd remain as secure as you felt before they showed up?  Other thoughts, experiences?

It is simply each to their own in this situation. I personally would introduce myself and support my fellow trans person. In my views if we all did this our lobby efforts would be much more effective by being visible and showing a strong cohesion. I understand some want to be stealth for whatever reason. In this day and age of computerized records and Google though it is nearly impossible as all of us will be found out some day. Only my humble opinion. 

I wouldn't out myself to them, I would talk to them like any new person. I think I would be a bit leery of how safe I was though.

I'd love to answer this, but I don't think I'd ever be that way. I don't like people knowing I'm trans until I tell them. But I wouldn't want to hide that part of my past.

My past is part of me. Everyone's is. To understand me and understand my point of view, you need to understand my experiences, and those include living for decades as a male and transitioning MtF.

So I'd want my close friends to know about me.

In your scenario, I'd admire and support the new person, and befriend her if we were compatible. I would hope she could be trusted not to out me.

But really, Valerie, Being trans and transitioning IS something to be proud of.

It's hard and challenging and we rose to the challenge. We have wisdom from seeing the world from both sides of the gender barrier. And we learned what it is to be marginalized and defined by outsiders.

Hi Valerie,

Funny you should bring this up.  Within the past couple of years, I ran into a situation similar to the hypothetical you've described.

I am a competitive pool player in a national league.  While I am much more flamboyantly girly than most of the female league players, I'm pretty well stealth in league and in my life generally.  And I do like it that way.

A couple of years ago, I met another player, I'll call her Ann.  Ann is a great pool player, better than I am.  She's been playing league pool for nearly as long as I've been alive.  Many league players knew Ann long before she transitioned; it is generally known among regional players that she is a trans woman.  And to be honest, no one would look at her and assume that she's a cis woman.  She seems to have accepted this.

Well, when I first met Ann, she was looking to get on a team.  Even though she's a very good player, no one would pick her up.  Some people in league openly refuse to play with her because she's transsexual.  As a team captain, I invited Ann to play on my team.

Ann and I had been playing together for a couple of months before I decided to out myself to her.  (She had no idea that I'm trans.)  I think partly I wanted to feel some camaraderie with a fellow gender outlaw, and partly I wanted to demonstrate to Ann that she isn't alone.

Fast forward to today.  To make a long story short, Ann turned out to be a not so nice person.  I found her very difficult to  manage as a team member.  She was never where she needed to be when it was time for her to play, so I found myself wandering around often looking for her.  She just had a lack of courtesy and a sense of being better than the rest of us.  But that isn't the worst of it.

For reasons that I can't explain, Ann took to saying very nasty things to me.  I don't know why; I was only ever nice to her.  As the only 2 trans women that I know of in our regional league, I wanted to be her friend.  I've come to understand that Ann is a very angry, self hating woman.  For some of the people who don't want to play with her, the issue really is discrimination.  But I think that for the majority of people who don't want to play with her, it's because she's an ass. 

If Ann has outed me to anyone else, I'm unaware of it.  I do, however, regret outing myself to her.  I don't like her.  I don't want to play with her.  And given her history of randomly saying mean, hurtful things to me out of the blue and completely unprovoked, I don't trust that she will honor my confidence among fellow league players into the future.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't trust other trans people.  What I am suggesting is that we as trans women are as varied in personality and honor as is the general non-trans population.  Whether I will out myself to any future transsexuals that may show up at pool league is an open question.  I will, however, wait to become friends first before revealing intimate details about my life. 

As to the second part of your question, playing on a team with Ann did not cause anyone else in league to question my gender identity.  I am very confident in my true gender, and people have no cause to question it.  True, my hands are a little big for a woman, and I do have a bit of an Adam's apple, but everything else about me screams girly-girl.  And I'm pretty sure that my own confidence causes people to simply accept me at face value.

Sorry, I didn't mean to write a book here.  I hope I addressed the gist of your question.

Quote from: Valerie on June 08, 2014, 12:18:36 PMDoes the presence of the new person make you fear being found out?  Do you think you'd feel comfortable associating with them or might you be inclined to be more aloof? Do you think you'd remain as secure as you felt before they showed up?  Other thoughts, experiences?

Nah, I'm not bothered. I don't know if I'd ever disclose to them, though. Would depend on how well I got to know them, same as with cis folks.

Honestly though, I spend enough time dealing with trans stuff coming up that I'm kind of immune to those worries. It freaked me out the first time a book dealing with trans folks came across my desk (I'm an editor), but by the 10th? Not so much.

The fact that I'm a masculine-of-centre queer girl also makes quite a difference too. Nobody has ever been particularly surprised that I know something about trans issues. And then I'm around trans people a lot in LGBT spaces, without disclosing.

Depends, but I'd likely be a little uncomfortable.  I would be afraid other people will find out I'm trans, cause let's face it, once they know, all you'll ever be is a guy in their eyes.  While that sucks, it's the way that most people view transwoman in this world.  Think about all the responses to the Laverne Cox article in Times magazine.  There are many people that feel misgendering a transwoman is a perfectly okay thing to do.  And like it or not, even those that pretend to be understanding and accepting of us probably make a distinction in their head separating us from other members of our gender.  So if another person joined my group, I would probably be a little on edge and scared it would draw attention to me, but I would be friendly to the other person.  If it was another transexual woman, I would probably even come out to them.  I just want to escape the label of male and really don't want it reapplied to me once I transition and make it through everything I'm currently dealing with.  That's why stealth feels necessary for me.   

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.  Reason I asked was that I'd remembered a correspondence with someone years ago.  She said that she and another transwoman were both in a bar, independent of one another, and that there was this unwritten understanding that they wouldn't openly acknowledge one another--she said they'd exchanged glances and a nod, and continued on their way, essentially so as not to draw "trans-ness" to the attention of the cis-folk there (especially in a bar, sheesh).  So it made me wonder what others' reactions might be in similar scenarios, only less precarious than a bar; whether people feel that the presence of another trans* person might get people thinking more about transgender people in general and whether that increased awareness might compromise one's sense of stealth-hood.   ~V.

I read it all Miharu Barbie, you kept me enthralled to the end.

This 'Ann' was just a rotten person to begin with, but also, perhaps there was some jealousy there because you are so sweet and girly and totally passable when she wasn't any of those things. Perhaps.

I'd trust a trans person just as much as I do any cis-person, we are all individuals, each with our own behavior and morals. I keep myself stealth out there and while not as girly-girl as Miharu, I am still perceived as a woman (there have been very few exceptions). No way would I come out to anyone so easily, because even though sometimes I'd like to (especially with someone that I'm friends with), doing so could be catastrophic (not all the time, but better not to take that risk). Safer to blend in than put yourself out there as a possible target. Yet, I'm here, but I can't live in total fear, but out there, nah, I don't think so, its no one's business what I am under my clothes.

Quote from: Megan Joanne on June 08, 2014, 08:19:32 PM
I read it all Miharu Barbie, you kept me enthralled to the end.

OMG, you are so sweet!   

Quote from: Megan Joanne on June 08, 2014, 08:19:32 PM
...I keep myself stealth out there and while not as girly-girl as Miharu, I am still perceived as a woman...

From what I've seen, you're pretty girly, and crazy pretty.

Quote from: Megan Joanne on June 08, 2014, 08:19:32 PM
...Safer to blend in than put yourself out there as a possible target. Yet, I'm here, but I can't live in total fear...

I know exactly what you mean.  For the better part of the last 16 years, I've lived  my life as stealth as I could manage.  I can never really be certain who has guessed and who hasn't unless they come right out and ask me directly, but I've seen how rude some people can be to out trans women, and I don't ever experience that kind of rudeness coming at me.  Sometimes though, even after all these years, I do wish that I had friends with whom I could be myself, Miharu, trans woman extraordinaire.

Sometimes it's sad to feel like an outsider.  I'm no caped crusader, but I do occasionally see trans women who are having a hard time with it, and I wish that I could do something to help.  Just last November there was a beautiful young trans woman in Colton, California that I sort of knew through her many Youtube videos; she committed suicide because she just could not cope with the stress and loss of transition.  Even now, I feel helpless, like I wish I could have done something to make the going a little easier for her. 

I don't know that I have anything to offer anyone; but something in me demands that I make some small effort.  Exactly what that effort will ultimately look like remains to be seen.  But I'm here, and I'm reaching out.  And I do hope that the next time I meet a trans woman in pool league that I will find the way to reach out that is safe and supportive for us both.  Deep stealth can be just as lonely of a place as out in the open and ostracized can be.

To each their own.

I don't immediately divulge my transness until it comes about naturally -- I just think it's none of anyone's business. I think it would come down to how to group reacted. If it was positive, perhaps I would sit back and introduce myself more thoroughly to the new person in a more private setting. In the instance of a negative reaction, well... the only way to prevent the bystander effect is to assume responsibility, so I'd do my best to defend this new person. Then suggest we leave.