I think you both have extremely valid points, but let's please definitely keep an eye on the spicy meter cause it is getting hot hot hot

I think ultimately it depends on the unique situation, everyone is going to have a different best course of action depending on one's individual circumstances- it's impossible to say which would be right or wrong. Depending on the family, things can be completely different in terms of how to manage anything.

To the OP- it seems to me like she maybe does not understand the gravity of gender dysphoria. To me it sounds like she needs more convincing of how much of a necessity it might be for you to seek treatment. Perhaps if you first try to educate her and lay out potential hypothetical results of given scenarios, she might be much more understanding to how dire treating gender dysphoria really is. HRT is considered a medical cure for gender dysphoria. How you outline this and present this to her is of key importance, because if you do it just right then you will have her full support (which is probably what you need and want not only for yourself but also for your children).

Perhaps attending therapy together would be a great way to allow her to understand the medical nature of the predicament. I think this is possibly one of the most helpful things for family members to hear from a doctor- and I believe quite common.

Anyway I hope your journey stays dialed in your favor. Gender dysphoria is no easy battle, and we all know you need as much help as you can get right now. Hopefully you find being here helpful as I did. It surely is a wonderful place here for that reason. Hugs & good luck, Chelsea

I don't chime in very often here. And for that I am sorry to all, for this is a shared experience in which we all learn.  It seems to me that you are searching here for what path to take, an equitable solution to your problems. One thing that is fact: The passage of time is merely going to complicate, not simplify. Life becomes harder and more complex as more variables enter into play. With no significant other, the decision becomes rather easy. As time progresses dreams become shared. Children become added to the mix, making the inevitable all that more indecisive.  Whether it is next week, or ten years from now, you will still be transgendered. Do nothing and you make a conscious decision to live your life as such, perhaps in misery, to bring happiness to others. That action will show however in how you carry yourself and ultimately take a toll on you, your inner being, your soul. You are and always will be the same person, only your outward appearance changes. Who you are inside always will remain. Children are pretty resilient; they adapt and bounce back pretty well. Years ago, we would never divorce for the sake of the kids, the damage it would cause. We learned that more often damage was caused by staying together. A little bit of love goes a long way.  Material things are just that: material things. Meaningless objects that can be replaced. Everyone on this planet deserves happiness. Everyone. Everyone on this planet deserves dignity. Everyone. These are basic human rights.  I'd share my story with you, but this is about you. Transitioning isn't always easy. It's a real test of courage, perseverance and will. There's a lot of collateral damage. Lots of tears and soul searching. I think you know your path here. I'm here to tell you that you'll be okay.

Quote from: Felix on June 23, 2014, 01:11:28 AM

Maybe you can explain to your wife that being who you really are is important for your children? I tried to wait until my kid was an adult, but what finally pushed me to take the plunge was realizing that I was teaching my daughter a shameful lesson by staying closeted. Your kid will grow up in a world full of all sorts of out lgbt people, and you can't keep the existence of people like you a secret even if you manage to keep your orientation a secret. Do you really want your kid to see you as someone who tells lies in order to keep others happy? Have you decided what you will tell your kid once they are an adult? This "problem" doesn't go away. It's okay to decide not to transition, but doing it just for your wife or kids is unhealthy if they aren't told why.

This exactly. I have the kids, and I keep playing the "I'll wait till their grown" game.  But that's not fair. I'd you teach your children to hide who they are, and that is not normal by hiding yourself, you are planting those seeds. I don't care if my child is a boy, girl, non binary, gay straight bi pansexual asexual,  I want them to be comfortable with themselves, and the only way that can happen is if we are comfortable with ourselves.

Quote from: SandraB on June 25, 2014, 09:53:53 AM
I don't chime in very often here. And for that I am sorry to all, for this is a shared experience in which we all learn.  It seems to me that you are searching here for what path to take, an equitable solution to your problems. One thing that is fact: The passage of time is merely going to complicate, not simplify. Life becomes harder and more complex as more variables enter into play. With no significant other, the decision becomes rather easy. As time progresses dreams become shared. Children become added to the mix, making the inevitable all that more indecisive.  Whether it is next week, or ten years from now, you will still be transgendered. Do nothing and you make a conscious decision to live your life as such, perhaps in misery, to bring happiness to others. That action will show however in how you carry yourself and ultimately take a toll on you, your inner being, your soul. You are and always will be the same person, only your outward appearance changes. Who you are inside always will remain. Children are pretty resilient; they adapt and bounce back pretty well. Years ago, we would never divorce for the sake of the kids, the damage it would cause. We learned that more often damage was caused by staying together. A little bit of love goes a long way.  Material things are just that: material things. Meaningless objects that can be replaced. Everyone on this planet deserves happiness. Everyone. Everyone on this planet deserves dignity. Everyone. These are basic human rights.  I'd share my story with you, but this is about you. Transitioning isn't always easy. It's a real test of courage, perseverance and will. There's a lot of collateral damage. Lots of tears and soul searching. I think you know your path here. I'm here to tell you that you'll be okay.

"Children are pretty resilient; they adapt and bounce back pretty well"

Yes to normal things that pop up in life but not when dad becomes a women.  That's something most kids are not going to be able to adjust to.  Just imagine your own father in a dress, make up high heel shoes. It's a very disturbing thought.  Even as an adult I could not even imagine that.  I'm sorry for being blunt but kids are too important to gamble with their emotional well being.

Quote from: Amy1988 link=topic=167589."Childrmsg1458299#msg1458299 date=1403714139

Yes to normal things that pop up in life but not when dad becomes a women.  That's something most kids are not going to be able to adjust to.  Just imagine your own father in a dress, make up high heel shoes. It's a very disturbing thought.  Even as an adult I could not even imagine that.  I'm sorry for being blunt but kids are too important to gamble with their emotional well being.

Love is unconditional. If you don't, or can't grasp that concept, allow me to break it down quite simply for you. It means without condition.  Just as our parents when each and every one of us came out. Some were able to adjust, some were not. It's not what we were raised as, but what we are. And again, unconditional love.  Love is much more important to children, perhaps only secondary to food. My own children, although now adults, are at this very moment imagining their own father in a dress. One has seen that already, a couple more may see that very sight in a matter of weeks; one may never. (Actually, I don't really like dresses all that much, but one is getting married in Jan. and I will have to wear one then). How they deal with it is up to them. One has quite well. Two are coming along. The other may never. But while we're being blunt, let me be forthright, blunt also: I am proud of who I am. I don't try to hide myself. I'm also a bigot, by definition. For I hate bigots, they nauseate me. They reuse to be educated, feel that they know all there is to know, are very narrow minded and spew there hate and misunderstanding of what is. Their only saving grace is that their numbers are dying off as they themselves die off and the world, as society changes and progresses towards more tolerant people.
For myself, I have nothing more to say.

Quote from: SandraB on June 25, 2014, 12:09:44 PM
Love is unconditional. If you don't, or can't grasp that concept, allow me to break it down quite simply for you. It means without condition.  Just as our parents when each and every one of us came out. Some were able to adjust, some were not. It's not what we were raised as, but what we are. And again, unconditional love.  Love is much more important to children, perhaps only secondary to food. My own children, although now adults, are at this very moment imagining their own father in a dress. One has seen that already, a couple more may see that very sight in a matter of weeks; one may never. (Actually, I don't really like dresses all that much, but one is getting married in Jan. and I will have to wear one then). How they deal with it is up to them. One has quite well. Two are coming along. The other may never. But while we're being blunt, let me be forthright, blunt also: I am proud of who I am. I don't try to hide myself. I'm also a bigot, by definition. For I hate bigots, they nauseate me. They reuse to be educated, feel that they know all there is to know, are very narrow minded and spew there hate and misunderstanding of what is. Their only saving grace is that their numbers are dying off as they themselves die off and the world, as society changes and progresses towards more tolerant people.
For myself, I have nothing more to say.

No love is not unconditional.  If you believe that then you are not living in reality.  There is no such thing as true unconditional love.  If it were, human beings would be perfect which they are not.   human beings are really all about themselves.

Hi. You said SO input was welcome, so I hope you don't mind.

My spouse is currently questioning, and for me just knowing that he has the question has been terrifying. I've had multiple emotional breakdowns where I cry and beg him to figure it out already because the ambiguity feels like too much to handle; other days,  I am calm and remember that he is still here, he will always be the same personality and person, that the wrapping paper is less important than the gift inside. But overall, I'm just as confused as he is. I've done a lot of research and education on what it must be like for him, but I can't truly know beyond anecdotal evidence. I don't think your wife is trying to be any more selfish than you are; she is in denial that this is happening right now and nothing she wants to do will stop it from happening. Everyone goes into a marriage with some sort of "plan" for the future, and to one day find out or be told that that happy little imaginary path is not the one that you are going to take is, in short, terrifying. Myself and a lot of the other SOs that I have met online and in support groups struggle with the ambiguity of the situation, and the idea that "I don't REALLY know you." It's uncomfortable, and it does not mean that your feelings or experiences are invalidated. But, sometimes it feels like as an SO who is in love with someone who isn't really in love with himself, we are supposed to stand strong and stoic and just...wait. It's really, really, really hard to wait. It seems like you wife is struggling to make sense out of what seems like chaos, and by making plans about remodeling or having a baby, it gives her a sense of order and concrete future. It's not going to be easy for her, because it isn't easy for anyone on either side, and it still isn't even close to being easy for me, but she is going to have pull up a chair in ambiguity land. I applaud her that she is at a place that she's not freaking out about your dressing, because even that little change of clothes can be a complete shockeroo and emotional trigger for a lot of people. Would she consider going to a counselor to talk about her emotions and her fears? It really helps find balance and footing.

Amy, I am sorry, but I have seen some of your posts before, and I believe you have responded to one of my topics before. Are you a supportive member or not? All of your posts on this topic are first of all not advice, simply"you can not transition because you have a child". I would wonder how many members on here would hear this and laugh at you, as many have had success with their children.
honestly, you sound like my in laws. They told me that"marriages in this situation never work, we did our research". Yet some of the most known trans people survived this.
Honestly, "children come first". I have someone you should contact to maybe get a little perspective, and to get off the view I believe Jill is correct about: Jennifer Boylan. If you don't know her, she is a transwoman who transitioned when her two boys were young. She is still married to her wife, and both of her sons love her. So I ask you, what exactly happened to you that you are so set on this view that people can't transition if they have children? You keep trying to make this point, but the evidence of the contrary is all around you on this site.
seriously, contact Jennifer boylan. Or read her books. But otherwise, if you're not going to help, just for all our sakes, STOP.
Everyone else, thanks for your input. My wife and I talked and she is still supportive of me transitioning. It was just a misunderstanding.

Quote from: Amy1988 on June 24, 2014, 06:30:21 PM
It always disturbs me when children are involved.  Your post is all me me me but what about your child.  This kind of thing can devastate a child yet you sound like you are only concerned about your transition.  If it were me the only thing I'd be concerned about is what is this going to do to my kid.  Of course if it were me I wouldn't force this on a kid until they were grown.  Sorry for the harsh criticism but kids come first. Even at the expense of personal happiness.

My son is having no problem with it at all. Even the Therapist says he is doing well so until you are a parent maybe these kind of statements should be avoided in the future. Questioning it is OK, judgment is not. My kids were the first one's who I made sure were mentally prepared. As for unconditional love, yes it does exist and when you get some life experience you will learn this is very true. In my career I risked my life literally for people I did not know at all and I did it because all human life is valuable. In the ambulance and helicopter I worked myself to death to make sure all could survive and see their family members once again. Why did I do this? Unconditional love.

Quote from: ChelseaAnn on June 25, 2014, 02:08:12 PM
Amy, I am sorry, but I have seen some of your posts before, and I believe you have responded to one of my topics before. Are you a supportive member or not? All of your posts on this topic are first of all not advice, simply"you can not transition because you have a child". I would wonder how many members on here would hear this and laugh at you, as many have had success with their children.
honestly, you sound like my in laws. They told me that"marriages in this situation never work, we did our research". Yet some of the most known trans people survived this.
Honestly, "children come first". I have someone you should contact to maybe get a little perspective, and to get off the view I believe Jill is correct about: Jennifer Boylan. If you don't know her, she is a transwoman who transitioned when her two boys were young. She is still married to her wife, and both of her sons love her. So I ask you, what exactly happened to you that you are so set on this view that people can't transition if they have children? You keep trying to make this point, but the evidence of the contrary is all around you on this site.
seriously, contact Jennifer boylan. Or read her books. But otherwise, if you're not going to help, just for all our sakes, STOP.
Everyone else, thanks for your input. My wife and I talked and she is still supportive of me transitioning. It was just a misunderstanding.

I can't be supportive when kids are involved.  Jennifer Boylan is one person.  You can't look at a few exceptions and conclude that no kids are ever negatively effected by seeing a parent change genders.  I think a lot of transgender people who have young children are so self absorbed they can't see the potential harm and want everyone around them to enforce the denial.  I know that sounds harsh but I'm going speak on behalf of the kids.  I also find it strange that I'm the only one here who seems concerned about the kids. 

Quote from: Amy1988 on June 25, 2014, 04:17:05 PM
  I think a lot of transgender people who have young children are so self absorbed they can't see the potential harm and want everyone around them to enforce the denial. 

I am going to be as delicate as I can here, but how can you say this at all? You are constantly on here wanting an orchie even if you have to do it yourself. How is your Dysphoria any different from ours? Your desire for an orchie is just as bad as ours to transition. You are willing to risk your life for it. This is plain hypocritical, period. I see all kinds of people with kids posting saying they are doing very well with it.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on June 25, 2014, 04:22:43 PM
I am going to be as delicate as I can here, but how can you say this at all? You are constantly on here wanting an orchie even if you have to do it yourself. How is your Dysphoria any different from ours? Your desire for an orchie is just as bad as ours to transition. You are willing to risk your life for it. This is plain hypocritical, period. I see all kinds of people with kids posting saying they are doing very well with it.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on June 25, 2014, 04:22:43 PM
I am going to be as delicate as I can here, but how can you say this at all? You are constantly on here wanting an orchie even if you have to do it yourself. How is your Dysphoria any different from ours? Your desire for an orchie is just as bad as ours to transition. You are willing to risk your life for it. This is plain hypocritical, period. I see all kinds of people with kids posting saying they are doing very well with it.

The difference is I don't have kids.  My transition only effects me. 

Quote from: Amy1988 on June 25, 2014, 05:16:55 PM
The difference is I don't have kids.  My transition only effects me.

I have kids and they are doing very well. So your transition does not affect your parents, grandparents, friends, work associates, etc?

Quote from: SandraB on June 25, 2014, 09:53:53 AM
Whether it is next week, or ten years from now, you will still be transgendered. Do nothing and you make a conscious decision to live your life as such, perhaps in misery

THIS! Yes!

Like I said everyone has a unique circumstance, with one exception... We will always be trans no matter what we do, and we all know how much of a damper it can put on life if you try to ignore it or "cope". Full transition may not be right for everyone, but chances are if you want to now you will only want it more and more and more. It is at that point you put not only yourself at great risk but also everyone you are connected to.. Kids would be no exception.

A good friend of mine has a transgendered MtF parent. I would have never guessed it. She is just as fun and loving as any other girl

Quote from: Amy1988 on June 25, 2014, 04:17:05 PM
I can't be supportive when kids are involved.  Jennifer Boylan is one person.  You can't look at a few exceptions and conclude that no kids are ever negatively effected by seeing a parent change genders.  I think a lot of transgender people who have young children are so self absorbed they can't see the potential harm and want everyone around them to enforce the denial.  I know that sounds harsh but I'm going speak on behalf of the kids.  I also find it strange that I'm the only one here who seems concerned about the kids.

I know a couple who live in rural western Maryland, AKA the boonies. Pretty much an identical situation as ChelseaAnne. They had a 2 or 3 y/o and one on the way when the T-Bomb got dropped. 3 years later they are still together, the eldest is fine, the youngest was barely born when transition occured.

I too am.... concerned. At first I too was horrified hearing what was going on. Very young kids seem to be quite resiliant. Society didn't beat the life out of them yet. Older kids will likely have issues and is proven so all too often as testimony here on Susan's will attest to

It just goes to show that every family has it's own unique circumstance. There is no way to predict what will work well for the kids and what will not. It all depends on the personalities, location, visibility of parental units, and familial love.

I think it's okay that Amy has a strong viewpoint on this topic, it is by no means "wrong" or unjust to say. But perhaps a little bit discouraging.

ChelseaAnn- I still think it would be smart for you AND your wife to seek therapy together at some point. I have a feeling that if she registers the medical nature of the gender dysphoria condition she might be much more understanding of the ramifications of trying to ignore it or sweep it under the rug / letting it fester.

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 25, 2014, 06:13:59 PM
I think it's okay that Amy has a strong viewpoint on this topic

I agree until it leads to condemnation of those of us with children. Blanket statements against parents with kids as a whole is not healthy or cannot lead to a meaningful dialog on the subject. 

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on June 25, 2014, 06:20:25 PM
I agree until it leads to condemnation of those of us with children. Blanket statements against parents with kids as a whole is not healthy or cannot lead to a meaningful dialog on the subject. 

Yeah I agree, I do see her point though. It will certainly not make things any easier to have kids to factor in, but in many cases it's inevitable because kids are forever. We have to do the best with what we have- and that is why I agree with you. There is a difference between being cautious and being unsupportive- it seems to be a fine line. I'm not sure that what Amy is saying is necessarily unsupportive, perhaps a bit... I would like for Amy to truly hypothetically place herself in the shoes of a parent and imagine what that would be like considering the urge to be witnessed as one's true self is so intense & unchanging.

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 25, 2014, 06:24:49 PM
I would like for Amy to truly hypothetically place herself in the shoes of a parent and imagine what that would be like considering the urge to be witnessed as one's true self is so intense & unchanging.

I think she will get there with more life experience. Things while black and white as a young person drift into more gray area's as we age.