(Disclaimer: I know this term is not exactly loved around here, but I'm using it to describe how I feel, because it describes how I feel. I prob will not reply to posts telling me I'm not allowed to call my feelings that, because those are my feelings, I can't help it.)

So, I totally think I am suffering from autoandrophilia and that's a big reason I feel like detransitioning from MTF to just cis male. Usually the times I want to detransition most are when I get excited about gay cis guys and want to be like that. I mean a lot of times I want to not be trans, which turns into being a guy, but in the times when I positively want to be a guy, there's usually a sexual or at least romantic flavor to it. Like, I REALLY like the idea of being in a gay relationship. Not to say I'd be masculine, I'd be me, but I'd have the body of a guy. Also, when I was a cis boy, I used to really enjoy looking in the mirror. I joked about it with people a lot then, but it was true. I really felt pretty as a guy, but as a girl, I feel dumpy and ugly, even though my face is more normal for a girl than it ever was for a guy. I mean as a guy I looked special, kinda uniquely beautiful, as a girl, I don't know, I just feel like I look like a lesser version of normal. I was really comfortable with how my face looked as a guy, and my body was okay if I had clothes on. Mostly I just didn't like my wide hips. And I really miss having a flat chest. I don't feel wrong having boobs, but I feel like a flat chest would be sexier. I only get dysphoric about my chest when I'm thinking I WANT to be a guy, not just I don't want to be a girl. I mostly want to be a guy after reading yaoi or fanfics, or other homoerotic stuff, or seeing/meeting a really cute gay couple and wanting to be like them. I mean I want to be a guy who is mostly in a stereotypical female role, but for some reason, it's more exciting and appealing as a guy... why?

What do you do about these feelings? The thing is, they're something that consistently come up, but I don't think they form an actual identity, just something I want a lot, and I don't know if I'm just idealizing this whole thing, I am stupid like that. But I also feel like, since this is how all my initial sexual experiences were, maybe it feels like it has to be that way? I don't know... I can't see myself as a girl sexually and in a romantic context, being a girl feels fake.

Anyone relate?

after reading what the definition is, i'd have to say, i'm openly admitting i have those same feelings at least 45% of the time

Yeah? What do you do about it? How do you think it is affected by being pre-transition?

Well seeing as it happens when i wake up from a very vivid dream or during the day when my mind goes hazy, which could happen at least 7 times a day, there's only one thing i can do. I find a corner and either try to ride it out or act when it becomes to strong, of course afterwards i feel horrible. Oh god, thanx a lot. Now i feel icky lol

Hmm, well I mean, does it give you conflicting feelings about deciding to transition?

Also I think part of my problem is, I was a REALLY hot guy after I had to cut my hair for my grandma's funeral. I'm not gonna lie. I looked at old pictures... okay, I was small, and short, but I was frickin' gorgeous. Goodness. Just saying. Wow, I forgot about that, and I didn't believe it at the time.

Conflicting.....i would say it serves as a major dysphoria inducer. As far as tranistioning goes, it does bring up doubt since i've said i had no intention to cross dress but..well to get the full story, i'll have to drag this somewhere else. This is another of my dirty little secrets so i guess its time to share. You were the first to know so thanx your lucky stars lol.

you mean to cross dress after you transition? sorry I'm not meaning to pry though if you don't wanna talk about it

(I'm just confused XD and don't know your story super well)

is not that i dont. its highly sensitive information. its one of 3 major dirty secrets i have after all

I don't know you (and all politics about the validity of the term autoandrophilia aside)  but it seems to not make sense to me for a  couple of reasons: to be diagnosed with this you need to have a clear and persistent presentation of symptoms over many years, and the history of gender dysphoria that led you to transition contraindicates autoandrophilia but you must have also had those symptoms persistently to get that diagnosis and transition. It seems your position has changed dramatically and from your post it sounds like your gender identity is quite fluid but you are trying too hard to pick a side maybe? Does genderqueer not ring any bells for you?

@cruise

Well I didn't transition out of gender dysphoria really. It's a long story, but it was more that I felt like I was supposed to be a girl b/c of my body and somewhat my personality and was better off that way... I did want to wear women's clothes, which is not a reason to transition on its own anyway, but since taking HRT I got fat and now I look worse in them than when I was a boy anyway so...

You could say I'm genderfluid, actually my gender doesn't change much unless I feel pressured to lie to myself, I don't really believe in gender that much, so I'm sorta agender, but my physical identity is more fluid, except again I don't necessarily WANT to look like a girl most of the time, I just think I'm better off that way. But I also feel fake. I feel like I'm lying to people. And the idea of looking like a guy/being perceived as one is sexually thrilling sometimes... you know?

Like, for example, sometimes I have this fantasy of being a boy again, and meeting a straight guy and slowly seducing him and getting him to bend his sexuality. I guess I sort of wish I could be a girl with a (small) boy's body, so no wonder I want to detransition a lot.

As for transitioning, I don't have any trans-related diagnosis, my endo diagnosed me with hormone imbalance. I didn't see a gender therapist, I just went fulltime one day.  yah, it was rash.

Quote from: sad panda on July 03, 2014, 01:51:51 PM
it was more that I felt like I was supposed to be a girl b/c of my body and somewhat my personality and was better off that way... I did want to wear women's clothes, which is not a reason to transition on its own anyway
....

As for transitioning, I don't have any trans-related diagnosis, my endo diagnosed me with hormone imbalance. I didn't see a gender therapist, I just went fulltime one day.  yah, it was rash.

This is pretty much the reason I transitioned; I thought I'd be better off. I didn't think it would magically make my life better, or even that I'd be happier, just that I'd fit in kinda and like I was just supposed to be this way. Most of my life (I'm 32, so 10 yrs older than you abouts) I had no desire for hormones, only SRS. I just didn't need them, my body was femme on its own.

But at the same time, I waited so long cause I kept telling myself I have delayed puberty and eventually Id virilize and get taller (I'm 5'5) and my face would not be so round and femme and all these feelings would gfo away. Basically, I fantasized I'd turn into a man. Though, I pictured myself with women. I dated a woman once and ya know I thought she didn't know at first about me but she knew before I even told her and said how could you not, looking like you look.

I don't know what my point is, I never do most of the time, but I do find myself returning to these thoughts. I feminized myself so much and my body is just way femme. My face is still andro and pretty in a way, but I'd prob be better off as a guy if you just took my face into consideration. Maybe not. It's really round and not very masculine and the best I get is "are you a man or woman" dressed 100 percent male.

I don't know what the hell to do. Part of me says just be a gay guy. I accepted, at the very least, that I'm not attracted to women and just wanted to be really, really badly. I have never had a sexual thought of myself with a woman. It has to be with a man, as a man with a man, as a trans woman, as a trans man with a cis man, but never with a woman.

Our stories aren't the same or exactly similar but we both have small, delicate features and are very confused. I don't know what to do. But I just keep taking hormones. I tried to stop but I just start fiending for them. Not in a drug way. In a "if you don't your life is going to suck way" and this is how you are supposed to be and its what god wants.

I used to think I had ->-bleeped-<-, but in order for that to be true I'd have cross dressing tendencies in a way that I don't and sexual thoughts, and my thoughts are basically non-existant. I have gone years without even touching it.  I wear very normcore women's clothes.

This prolly makes no sense so feel free to just ignore it.

Ok, here goes.  You are you, and there is nothing remotely wrong with being confused about these things.  Its ok to stop transition and go back to being a guy if you feel that's who you are.  We make mistakes, our brains are funny things.  I don't think its entirely common to detransition, but for various reasons people do it.  And they shouldn't feel bad about maybe jumping the gun and diving head first into something like transitioning ifmthey honestly felt it wasmwhat they needed to do. 

Our brains are tricky little things and sometimes transitioning really wasn't the best option for cetain individuals. 
I subscribe to the mindset that if there are people out there who want to transition or detransition, then so be it!  Whatever the reasoning may be.

Quote from: AnnaCannibal on July 04, 2014, 12:12:34 PM
I don't think its entirely common to detransition, but for various reasons people do it.

Not derail, and that's the last thing I want to do, though I generally don't get responses, but I think it's the other way around. There are not rates or studies, but I bet the percentage of people who start HRT and then stop is around 50-75 percent. It's real easy to stop. Now, if you're talking SRS, then it's less than 1 percent. But that's a different beast.

The OP isn't really talking about detransitioning, per se, though from my view in th way it usually occurs. Most detranstion and go back to being all macho man. The OP is not saying that. Sorry, not sure which pro-nouns to use, but I think it's he. Don't want to offend and call me PC but this is serious bitness.

@Joanna

Just making sure you understand my point but, I am talking about autoandrophilia, not gyno. Like, I'm sexually excited by the idea of being a boy and seeing myself as a boy. This makes me actually *want* to detransition a lot of the time, rather than just wanting to simply not be trans, but I never know if I just feel that way because of my sexuality.

I even like the fantasy of being with a woman, as a boy, but I've had plenty of offers in the past and I know that in reality I wouldn't be interested at all... for some reason when women would flirt with me/act sexual/offer sex I found it incredibly irritating and never did anything with a girl. I do have a fantasy of it sometimes though, but only as a boy. OTOH, the fantasy of being with a man as a boy is stronger because I know I'd actually want it in reality too, and I find that confusing to my status as a woman. You know how some people claim that trans women are "just gay guys?" Well, that's me, except I think gender is stupid and ridiculous anyway.

So I don't really know for sure where these feelings are coming from. My first sexual sexual experiences with a guy, I was only 10 years old. I mean, that was rape. But somehow I feel like that became my template for love and I can't escape it. I want to be the confused, innocent little boy getting led into sex and confusing feelings about another person. Being a woman sexually, it doesn't quite feel like me. Something feels wrong and I don't want it as much. Honestly I think I fundamentally find it hard to see women as sexual. I don't find the female body interesting and maybe that makes me feel less interesting because my body looks female. I just feel unsexy.

@Anna

Thanks, it's just hard to sort out what I truly want. Honestly I just feel like gender is a big act and most people are stubbornly entrenched in it. It feels invalidating to not be a part of the act, but since society conflates gender with physical sex it's like I can never win. The more I suffer and am forced to question or change myself because of gender, the less I can handle it. If I'm a boy and I want to be a normal boy, I have to adopt a different personality and aesthetic. If I'm a girl and want to be a normal girl, I have to pretend my body is different than it is, and get operated on to make it more like that, and just feel unsexy. I just wish it was OK to simply be. I mean really okay, as in socially acceptable.


@Joanna again

You're fine, I don't really care about pronouns 

oh panda, to answer your question before, what i meant by cross dressing is the gyne or andro would usualy be associated with cross dressing depending on which gender has it. even if i transition, i wont do cross sex dressing meaning i wont completely go with female clothes. also, strangely, i like using that thing. hope that answers some of your questions lol

Quote from: Vampire Brianna Terryal Onyx on July 04, 2014, 03:39:09 PM
oh panda, to answer your question before, what i meant by cross dressing is the gyne or andro would usualy be associated with cross dressing depending on which gender has it. even if i transition, i wont do cross sex dressing meaning i wont completely go with female clothes. also, strangely, i like using that thing. hope that answers some of your questions lol

I've worn female clothes most of my life, nothing else fits, but I never considered myself a crossdesser. It was never for sexual arousal and if I became sexually aroused I got sick and took them off.

Oh, and SP, I knew what u meant by autoandrophile. My question would be I know u like fashion, how would/will you dress in the future. I love fashion so I'm just curious. My BF is pretty dapper and always searching for hip clothes, so you can dress nice and even femme in men's clothes. Though he doesn't dress femme. Though, he does have some, umm, not so masculine shirts...lol

Quote from: jussmoi on July 05, 2014, 01:27:57 AM
Ohhh, you know it! I made a whole post about this last year. I'm not afraid to say it now...I get turned on by the idea of being a guy and having sex with guys. I don't think its that weird. But yeah I fetishize gay guys so much.

To be honest, I'm so self sexual that I think that contributes to my difficulty in getting sexually excited now and like...locking onto romantic connections. Like as a girl its all just whatever...I'm a bit asexual/a romantic as a girl in some ways. Tho I do find that I get turned on by situations where its like...me as a ->-bleeped-<-. Which prolly has to do with my internalized transphobia...where I kinda see being trans as still being part male.

But yeah I have 0% problem admitting that that is exactly why I detransitioned...cuz I was turned on by the thought of being a guy and dating gay guys. But ultimately it didn't work out.

Whatever. I think the best/healthiest option is to forget roles in general and focus on the guy and what turns you on about him not what turns you on about the situation and your own role in it. That's what I'm trying to do and my standards on what guys I'll date have gone waay up.

But yeah honestly? I try not to think about gender these days. I just do me. I have no gender really. I'm a person and I express myself however I feel like on any given day and people can make whatever they want if it cuz no ->-bleeped-<-s are given on my end.

Sorry for being rambly its a holiday so I'm a drunkass hoe lnao

Heyaaa (not drunk here anymore, shoulda bought more booze ;3;)

I getcha. I'm mostly the same as you on this too, though even as much as I judge myself I feel totallllly detached from "tranyness." I'm not saying I'm super special, just, I can't feel like a part of the trans community or like a "trans person," and that's no fault of the community, I just feel very different. Maybe I'm simple, but I can't/don't SEE gender identity in a person. I respect it but I just can't see it... I see masc and femme and usually (but occasionally not) that matches birth sex, honestly. Talking to trans people made me really see that. It makes me weird and kind of skeptical about the whole thing, which makes me jaded about the whole thing. I'm carrying all that bias around and it's like, am I seriously the only one who notices? A million little things. But they all seem really obvious. Masc/femme. People usually lean one way, you can usually feel which one a person is. But with me, I can't tell, I'm really unsure of myself. Tbh I feel a bit of the same way about you, though I think you're obviously more girl-identified than me. I don't know what's real and fake, what I want to be vs what I'm better off being vs what I should be, or who I behave as, or what I claim to be. It's all a mess. I'm looking for something to stabilize that big mess. Some kind of control...

The situation/role thing is a big one. Idk why but I get attached to these ideals of different situations and start really yearning for them. It's like living from the top down. It's all backwards. I'm always thinking about what my life SHOULD be like, what it would have to be like for me to feel special or happy, inventing these fairy tails in my head, making up requirements. And frequently... it just never feels good anyway. Like how you said to me yesterday about sex not feeling as good as you thought it would, even when nothing is different than expected. I know it's all stupid but I feel like I need to latch onto something like that, you know?

Some days are better than others... I don't really care about my gender these days either, not as much as it may sound. I don't really get dysphoric about anything until I socialize. It's being social that drives me crazy, cuz then I feel this intense need to just pick something. I'm trying to just not care about that too but idk. I'm still not ok with being different different yet. My sister's text like a year ago when I came out to her... "you can be gay but your a boy not a girl... thats just weird..." still floating around in my head. I tell MYSELF that too. Every little time cis people reject trans people, floats around in my head, it's like, it just bothers me, even when it has nothing to do with me. It's obsessive, but it's there... I'm not good with this stuff, you know? :c

Like...for a long time I wanted to be cis but now I'm like who cares. There's a quote "you laugh at me cuz I'm different I laugh at you cuz you're all the same". I've gotten a lot less awkward and uncomfortable around cishet people these days cuz I've realized something really important...they don't have all the answers. They just have all the power.

Gender is something stupid. Its this backward creation and its outdated. You are so spot on when you say that. And you're right about the masc vs femme thing...I just see myself as a feminine being and people just perceive me as female so I roll with it but its whatever. I'm just expressing what feels natural to me and this is who I've always been. I don't know how or why and I don't give any ->-bleeped-<-s.

I think you're a feminine being. The male vs female element is irrelevant. Body wise you're intersex basically. Then gender wise...like you said who cares. You're not lying because you're not telling anyone you're anything you're not...you're not telling you're anyone but yourself.

As for the sexuality element...thats complicated. But if you really move past gender on the end it cones down to what body parts you have and which ones you're attracted to and how they come together...like if you're seeing yourself as genderless there's nothing detransition can give you that you don't already have.

Quote from: jussmoi on July 05, 2014, 02:27:07 AMI've gotten a lot less awkward and uncomfortable around cishet people these days cuz I've realized something really important...they don't have all the answers. They just have all the power.

Aww, you're amazing. Ironically... this is so powerful.

I needed to hear that. I'm sure we all do.

QuoteGender is something stupid. Its this backward creation and its outdated. You are so spot on when you say that. And you're right about the masc vs femme thing...I just see myself as a feminine being and people just perceive me as female so I roll with it but its whatever. I'm just expressing what feels natural to me and this is who I've always been. I don't know how or why and I don't give any ->-bleeped-<-s.

Yeah, little by little, I'm getting there too.  I put up with it for a while, then I got upset at it.  Now I'm in the gray zone where I'm so upset with it I can't waste my life on this crap anymore. But I'm still not all there yet.

QuoteI think you're a feminine being. The male vs female element is irrelevant. Body wise you're intersex basically. Then gender wise...like you said who cares. You're not lying because you're not telling anyone you're anything you're not...you're not telling you're anyone but yourself.

As for the sexuality element...thats complicated. But if you really move past gender on the end it cones down to what body parts you have and which ones you're attracted to and how they come together...like if you're seeing yourself as genderless there's nothing detransition can give you that you don't already have.

It's funny, cuz essentially it shouldn't be much more than simple roleplaying, having fantasies of being a guy or whatever. We just happen to live in society that made gender so interwoven into every little part of a person's life, so the role becomes a way of life itself. All I really want is an experience. To pretend sometimes. It's like playing donkey kong in a game vs diddy. It shouldn't matter. I'm so tired of feeling like one of the only people who truly will take anyone at face value as just a player rather than a character that they play. I feel like I'm willing to do it but nobody else is, not even trans people, they hold onto serious prejudices without even admitting they do. Actually, trans people are often less willing than anyone else, because it becomes an ego thing (well, are and aren't. I'm not sure about this one.)

Guess I gotta get out more, but this town isn't the place....

Quote from: sad panda on July 05, 2014, 02:45:13 AM
Aww, you're amazing. Ironically... this is so powerful.

I needed to hear that. I'm sure we all do.

Yeah, little by little, I'm getting there too.  I put up with it for a while, then I got upset at it.  Now I'm in the gray zone where I'm so upset with it I can't waste my life on this crap anymore. But I'm still not all there yet.

It's funny, cuz essentially it shouldn't be much more than simple roleplaying, having fantasies of being a guy or whatever. We just happen to live in society that made gender so interwoven into every little part of a person's life, so the role becomes a way of life itself. All I really want is an experience. To pretend sometimes. It's like playing donkey kong in a game vs diddy. It shouldn't matter. I'm so tired of feeling like one of the only people who truly will take anyone at face value as just a player rather than a character that they play. I feel like I'm willing to do it but nobody else is, not even trans people, they hold onto serious prejudices without even admitting they do. Actually, trans people are often less willing than anyone else, because it becomes an ego thing. Guess I gotta get out more, but this town isn't the place....

Aww I'm glad that helped you hon<3

The funny thing is I'm up and down too but its like...who cares right? Like I've gotten this idgaf attitude and I think like..things like this can be like a rope that tightens the more you pull at it. You just kinda gotta let go and open yourself up to every possible experience..good or bad.

And yeah I know its hard. Like...even if what we're saying is right we're still the minority in terms of people who share our opinion. Like so much of our interactions ate gender based and it's like we're told that we're obligated to this flawed perception of gender through our self portrayal/expression...and that somehow if we do anything that defies the binary our very existence is deceptive and disingenuous.

But that's a lie. It's society thats disingenuous. Its fake because a penis or vagina doesn't make you a certain way..saying it does is the real deception here. But its readily accepted because the minds if the masses are hard to sway. But really its not us thats inauthentic...its being true to yourself in an inauthentic society that makes you feel that way.

But. I will say. I think things are changing for the good. Younger peeps are so apathetic these days. Luckily we live in an increasingly "anything goes" era. And its only getting better...and very quickly. Like hell things have improved a ->-bleeped-<- ton from 10 years ago. So thats something at least