Quote from: stephaniec on July 10, 2014, 08:50:14 PM
I'm on my 9th month of HRT. mentally it's pulled me from standing on the roof of my apartment building to really being able to have a future. I can only glimpse of how my face has changed. I can see definite development in my breasts and I love going in public dressed up. I still get confused about what I'm doing . but I just started so I'm taking a day at a time and seeing where it goes. I know I want to look totally female , but I don't know how far the changes will go. I just have wanted to do this since childhood so I'm giving it a go.I personally never have felt male . it just my outside was abnormal

Hmm, well, beyond everything else, attractive or not, isn't your first line what's most important here!

As for the other things, 9 months is not enough to be able to tell! :3

Quote from: sad panda on July 10, 2014, 08:52:21 PM
Hmm, well, beyond everything else, attractive or not, isn't your first line what's most important here!

As for the other things, 9 months is not enough to be able to tell! :3

yes, because the doors to hell were opening

I physically and socially transitioned because I'm a woman. I had hopes that I'd be an attractive woman, but was also realistic enough to accept that it might not happen and that the best I could hope for might be average - this is not a concept that put me off at all..

In the end, I've ended up looking quite masculine. And you know what? It doesn't much matter to me. I'm perceived as a woman.. I interact with the world as a woman. I live as a woman.. Which was kinda the point of transition..

Quote from: kelly_aus on July 10, 2014, 09:54:34 PM
I physically and socially transitioned because I'm a woman. I had hopes that I'd be an attractive woman, but was also realistic enough to accept that it might not happen and that the best I could hope for might be average - this is not a concept that put me off at all..

In the end, I've ended up looking quite masculine. And you know what? It doesn't much matter to me. I'm perceived as a woman.. I interact with the world as a woman. I live as a woman.. Which was kinda the point of transition..

sounds good

I'm not going to lie, I struggle with this question everyday.  Going from a fairly good looking man to an ugly woman scares the crap out of me.  I know it is awful, and I feel awful and shallow giving it so much weight, but I do.  I mean what does that say about what I value, and how I look at people?  It is not good.  This whole process has made me discover some very unflattering things about myself that I never knew.  I know I am going to have to get past it if I am ever going to be happy, but  the uncertainty allows me to keep things on hold and stay "safe".  I wish there was some way I could see what is possible or likely for me.  Don't get me wrong, I don't expect to be hot or even beautiful.  I am just scared to give up what I have and worried i don't have the strength to deal with what may be the results.  It is such a gamble, and I am so in awe of all of you that took the leap for yourselves.  You are much better and stronger women than I am.

For me being attractive or unattractive had no bearing on my decision to transition. That being said I cannot deny that I do at sometimes wish I was beautiful and have been envious of some of the women here. I have always felt I am ugly ever since I was a kid so made up for it by being really funny and silly at times and I find people want to be around me because of that.

Maybe some additional words from me: I only can search after german content - its easier for me. So i really searched after f.e. content of forums about the topic "ugly girls or women" ... the result is the same as here and everywhere. Ugly people suffer. It doesnt matters if women are trans or cis. If your ugly, for whatever reason, you feel pain and refusal. I read some stories about ugly girls in the web and it so sad. They have no boyfriends, no sex ... other people talk about them, companys prefer attractive people for their jobs. Its a really, really wide array of situation where ugly people have drawbacks.

Its no easy life - you have to fight everyday. People who like you try to sugarcaot the things. Sure, they cant do anything and are helpless themselves. And things like "you must life your inside", "all that counts is you inside" is NOT true. Nobody can turn the inside out and appears as a attractive person!!! Your "avatar" is your outside and people perceive your outside and nothing more. I think attractive people downplay the sorrows of ugliness (they dont have that sorrows) but it doesnt help any person on this planet.

Quote from: galaxy on July 11, 2014, 09:20:50 AM
Maybe some additional words from me: I only can search after german content - its easier for me. So i really searched after f.e. content of forums about the topic "ugly girls or women" ... the result is the same as here and everywhere. Ugly people suffer. It doesnt matters if women are trans or cis. If your ugly, for whatever reason, you feel pain and refusal. I read some stories about ugly girls in the web and it so sad. They have no boyfriends, no sex ... other people talk about them, companys prefer attractive people for their jobs. Its a really, really wide array of situation where ugly people have drawbacks.

Its no easy life - you have to fight everyday. People who like you try to sugarcaot the things. Sure, they cant do anything and are helpless themselves. And things like "you must life your inside", "all that counts is you inside" is NOT true. Nobody can turn the inside out and appears as a attractive person!!! Your "avatar" is your outside and people perceive your outside and nothing more. I think attractive people downplay the sorrows of ugliness (they dont have that sorrows) but it doesnt help any person on this planet.

I think its just our situation of being human. some attractive people look down on others , some rich laugh at the poor , others make racial comments or worse, others make fun of the overweight on and on. you just need to find your own best possible outcome  and go for it. the path of least resistance. Life is so incredibly short , but can be overwhelmingly  beautiful .I think like I did I just came to the realization that this is it and choose the best possible path and just do it. you fail, just pick yourself up and try another path. My life is mine and no one else's

Quote from: galaxy on July 11, 2014, 09:20:50 AM
Maybe some additional words from me: I only can search after german content - its easier for me. So i really searched after f.e. content of forums about the topic "ugly girls or women" ... the result is the same as here and everywhere. Ugly people suffer. It doesnt matters if women are trans or cis. If your ugly, for whatever reason, you feel pain and refusal. I read some stories about ugly girls in the web and it so sad. They have no boyfriends, no sex ... other people talk about them, companys prefer attractive people for their jobs. Its a really, really wide array of situation where ugly people have drawbacks.

Its no easy life - you have to fight everyday. People who like you try to sugarcaot the things. Sure, they cant do anything and are helpless themselves. And things like "you must life your inside", "all that counts is you inside" is NOT true. Nobody can turn the inside out and appears as a attractive person!!! Your "avatar" is your outside and people perceive your outside and nothing more. I think attractive people downplay the sorrows of ugliness (they dont have that sorrows) but it doesnt help any person on this planet.

I have to agree, it is pretty strongly cross cultural that beauty is highly valued. I really wish it was true that only what is on the inside matters, but society isn't like that. If anything being attractive carries with it significant privilege. It isn't like someone who is ugly isn't valued by society, but they have to prove themselves more than those who are attractive.

I don't think the really attractive people understand just how much the quality of thier life is improved by being so. After all attractive people suffer from the same struggles as everyone so it is many times difficult to realize when it helps. Statistics clearly shows that people who are more attractive do better financially than thier less attractive peers, so even if it isn't apparent there does seem to be a demonstrate me advantage there.

I do whine about how unattractive I am, but the reality is as a guy I was middle of the pack and I am pretty sure that is where I am going to end up as female as well. I have seen plenty of people more and less attractive than me and the effects it seems to have.

Also Galaxy your English is great I didn't realize you were German at all. I took German for 3 years in school and I can't say anything much more complicated than "I need coffee" or "where am I?". I can't even remember past these conjugation, I remember it had something to do with adding Ge- in front of a word or something like that.

Seriously, what is attractiveness? What is everyone else's view of attractiveness? What is attractive?

Those three questions have answers that are as unique as every individual on this planet. Oh yeah physical beauty male or female definately gets my attention. If someone asked me what I though was attractive I don't think I can answer with any specifics. So someone has a little larger than average nose but has killer eyes and innocent smile. Someone has crooked teeth but the curve of their nose and long flowing hair. Look at Cindy Crawford. She has an in your face flaw on her face and she is still attractive. Sometimes less than perfect looks are way more attractive than perfect, no flaws at all looks. Take that girl that is a real life Barbie Doll that was on the internet and I think on youtube, she has flawless skin and looks perfect like a doll but I find I have no attraction to her looks at all. There are extremely physiclly beautiful people in the world with the personality or a rock and about a deep as a shallow rain puddle. And there are people out there that are less than classic beauties that have astounding personalities and not shallow at all and I usually find these people way more attractive. Arm candy is one thing, male or female, but compatable personalities is where the real attractiveness comes in.

Of course I would like to look like the perfect woman,  but realistically,  that will never happen, and I would rather be happy as a not so attractive woman, than unhappy,   a man...

Quote from: stephaniec on July 11, 2014, 09:49:37 AM
I think its just our situation of being human. some attractive people look down on others , some rich laugh at the poor , others make racial comments or worse, others make fun of the overweight on and on. you just need to find your own best possible outcome  and go for it. the path of least resistance. Life is so incredibly short , but can be overwhelmingly  beautiful .I think like I did I just came to the realization that this is it and choose the best possible path and just do it. you fail, just pick yourself up and try another path. My life is mine and no one else's

So inspired!

Quote from: galaxy on July 11, 2014, 09:20:50 AM
Its no easy life - you have to fight everyday. People who like you try to sugarcaot the things. Sure, they cant do anything and are helpless themselves. And things like "you must life your inside", "all that counts is you inside" is NOT true. Nobody can turn the inside out and appears as a attractive person!!! Your "avatar" is your outside and people perceive your outside and nothing more. I think attractive people downplay the sorrows of ugliness (they dont have that sorrows) but it doesnt help any person on this planet.

I'm a million miles away from prettiness and even when improving my appearance is one of my main goals in transition I think beauty isn't going to solve all our problems.

Feeling ugly on the outside is nothing compared to the ugliness felt on the inside when I know that everything on the outside is a lie. I feel that happiness has to be built from the inside out, and for me that requires being authentic to who I am.

Sure, I'm scared sometimes that I won't turn out very attractive. But those doubts aren't going to stop me from transitioning, I already know that there's no hope of being happy as long as I'm living a lie. All I can do is focus on being happy being true to my internal self and hopefully manage any insecurities that arise based on how the external world around me perceives me.

Quote from: Alaia on July 11, 2014, 12:33:23 PM
Feeling ugly on the outside is nothing compared to the ugliness felt on the inside when I know that everything on the outside is a lie. I feel that happiness has to be built from the inside out, and for me that requires being authentic to who I am.

Sure, I'm scared sometimes that I won't turn out very attractive. But those doubts aren't going to stop me from transitioning, I already know that there's no hope of being happy as long as I'm living a lie. All I can do is focus on being happy being true to my internal self and hopefully manage any insecurities that arise based on how the external world around me perceives me.

This for the most part sums up how I feel on the subject.^^___^^! With just a few exceptions:

As for me I never felt attractive before transitioning, and I don't feel that attractive now. But I do feel very feminine both inside and out. And to me that is what is important. I love wearing makeup and pretty jewelry, pretty clothes, etc., whether I'm attractive to others or not, whether anyone likes it or not. They make me feel feminine and great about myself.

Sure, others tell me I'm attractive, but for most of them I just think they're being nice. My transition is about my feeling good about myself both inside and out, about aligning my outside to match the woman I've always been inside. I'm no longer living a lie. So in answer to the question, an affirmative yes!, I would still transition even if I was guaranteed to look like The Wicked Witch of the West, in The Wizard of Oz - long ugly curved down drooping nose and all.

Ally

Quote from: stephaniec on July 10, 2014, 08:56:32 PM
yes, because the doors to hell were opening

Hell ain't a bad place to be. From the infamous AC/DC. Lilith was supposedley beautiful , enough to temp Adam at least. So....

I used to say I'd rather be an ugly dude than an ugly girl any day of the week. Then I realized that being an ugly dude has it's own set of disadvantages, and I also realized that if I'm was gonna be ugly, I might as well be an ugly girl.

But there was a time when that word wasn't even in my vocabulary. It's such a part, and that's a shame, of the culture and of advertising from commercials and magazines that daily bombard us with images of Hollywood's "Beautiful people" that it is hard not to be influenced to some degree.

To tell you the truth, the most beautiful people I've met through my whole life were beautiful because they were beautiful on the inside, not the outside, while the ugliest people I've ever met, whether they were rich or poor, admired or not admired, were ugly purely because of what they were on the inside. Why an ugly person would be admired might seem like a contradiction, but it's very common to look at the package, without looking at the inside.

Each day that we live we are presented with many choices to be either beautiful people, or to be ugly people. You can actually count the opportunities that pass through the day, if you just try. I've done it, and sometimes I was ashamed of myself when I was selfish. Other times, I found that I had a reason to radiate with joy.

Quote from: Suziack on July 12, 2014, 10:42:02 PM
It's such a part, and that's a shame, of the culture and of advertising from commercials and magazines that daily bombard us with images of Hollywood's "Beautiful people" that it is hard not to be influenced to some degree.

Some of the Hollywood Royalty is just downright unattractive and some may even say ugly if it wasn't for the Hollywood majicians. give me a true Plain John or Plain Jane anyday over some moviestar. The only thing that would attract me is the money they make per movie. Sorry that really sound shallow. But I ain't no angel unless some rich moviestar wants me to be Again shollow I know.

It would be cool to be beautiful. I wish I was. In a lot of ways, you get what you put into it, and I don't really give it my all. Beauty is different from the need to transition, and my need was not hinging on my odds of beauty.

In fact, I am rather comforted by any lack of attention in public because it implies I am blending in and not so manly people stare, nor so beautiful. It makes me feel like a normal, 38 year old lady, which is still a thrill every single time.

I actually find myself astounded by how superficial many women and trans women can be, and yet I understand how it is part of the full experience. I confess, I get caught up in it from time to time so I am not holier than thou. I love dressing up for an occasional night on the town but with that comes more unwanted attention.

I think I can be content, but not satisfied. I'm really hoping I can eventually get rhinoplasty. My standards are way too high, but I think I'll manage.

I think i could. I mean looks are important to me, but as long as i am seen as female in the eyes of myself and other people i couldn't give a damn.

Though thankfully at this moment i am attractive. But it is kind of weird when you catch people staring at you a lot, after a while you kind of get used to it maybe? ( i hope) but before it made me so paranoid because i thought everyone could tell i was trans.