For you that have been on HRT long enough to notice any dramatic physical changes, does this confuse you to the point if you're wondering that you made the right decision because the changes are so new and sudden that your brain hasn't caught up with the fact that this is you and your body? If so, when did you become more comfortable with the changes dysphoria being excluded here? I am operating on the idea that you no longer feel dysphoria over your body due to the changes but that it's more a reaction to the changes being that.

I haven't been on T for a long long time, but long enough for lots of physical changes to occur. They never brought me any discomfort and with every passing day I felt more like me. Then again each person's story is their own.

Hmm, I do quite often manage to bump my breasts into things (talk about pain), and everytime I am like what was that? Was that me? Was that my body? Where those my breasts? Then I think something like, oh right, I have those now, and then I feel an urge to smile because I realized I am becoming closer to me.

I find that whole sequence quite disorienting, but it hadn't really made me consider if it were the wrong choice, it all feels like it is happening way too fast sure, but at the same point the idea of applying the breaks even just a little bit evokes a very visceral negative response that far outweighs my feelings like it is all going so far, so fast.

Honestly, I think it is quite normal for things to be confusing, aside from puberty (which for many of us was like hell on earth), when else do you have the sorts of dramatic changes that you would from HRT, and it seems to be a compressed timeline too versus a natural puberty.

Quote from: Hikari on July 15, 2014, 05:47:10 AM
Hmm, I do quite often manage to bump my breasts into things (talk about pain), and everytime I am like what was that? Was that me? Was that my body? Where those my breasts? Then I think something like, oh right, I have those now, and then I feel an urge to smile because I realized I am becoming closer to me.

I find that whole sequence quite disorienting, but it hadn't really made me consider if it were the wrong choice, it all feels like it is happening way too fast sure, but at the same point the idea of applying the breaks even just a little bit evokes a very visceral negative response that far outweighs my feelings like it is all going so far, so fast.

Honestly, I think it is quite normal for things to be confusing, aside from puberty (which for many of us was like hell on earth), when else do you have the sorts of dramatic changes that you would from HRT, and it seems to be a compressed timeline too versus a natural puberty.

Yeah I wonder how the speed plays a role here. Initially I didn't react very strongly but it just felt good and right like what the other poster mentioned but recently I have been in a moment of doubting myself and I don't think it's helping that the changes are so fast. Yet I found myself giggling like a schoolgirl yesterday when I noticed that I am getting quite a visible adam's apple that can be seen if I stretch my neck. So it feels right like you say, because the alternative is so much worse, just that a compressed puberty isn't always easy to mentally digest I guess.

Quote from: Ephemeral on July 15, 2014, 05:56:24 AM
Yeah I wonder how the speed plays a role here. Initially I didn't react very strongly but it just felt good and right like what the other poster mentioned but recently I have been in a moment of doubting myself and I don't think it's helping that the changes are so fast. Yet I found myself giggling like a schoolgirl yesterday when I noticed that I am getting quite a visible adam's apple that can be seen if I stretch my neck. So it feels right like you say, because the alternative is so much worse, just that a compressed puberty isn't always easy to mentally digest I guess.

The speed is something I was totally unprepared for too! Like, I set a date to go full time that was 18 months after starting hormones. I had head so many people tell me how minor their changes were, and I always prepare for the worst that I was working on thought of "Oh, by then I will be at least a B cup". I am 5 months in and already am a small C cup. It seems by planning for the worst, and not anticipating the best case scenario I have caused myself a bit of a pickle with my planning.

Also, the smell. I smell so different now, and like I will go into my room and the smell throws me off so hard it isn't even funny. I think this disorients me much more than a physical change I can see and feel.

I would be impressed if someone could all handle the changes cool and calm like, I know I haven't. I am thinking it is pretty normal for people on HRT.

I've been on and off HRT several times over the last few decades. In the past I did freak out as the physical changes started to catch up with the mental changes. I felt more balanced, in control, calmer, even a bit happier. Yet, when the swelling started to show up top and the lack of swelling started to show down below I freaked. Both were incompatible with my desire to be 'normal' (as in male).

A few years back when I once again restarted HRT it was also at a time in my life when I, in essence, hit bottom. I knew I needed to address how I was NOT handling being trans. Between a lot of working on myself, a fantastic TG support group, and a general therapist to help with 50 years of accumulated baggage, I gained some self-esteem and sense of who I might be. I am still on HRT.

TBH, I have had my "WTF am I doing " periods where I would stop or cut way back. Luckily I always came to my senses realizing once again I Know What Does Not Work; which is how I (unsuccessfully) ran my life for decades.

Hey, who else gets to experience through two bodies?  Confusing as hell, but I will darn well get the hang of it!

HRT is a powerful therapy.  A skilled endo will help you match your rate of physical change either your emotional change and readiness.  There is no one schedule that fits us all and each person's biology reacts quite uniquely.  I hope that the following is not TMI.

In my case I have also stopped, increased, maintained or decreased hrt.  It has given me the control that I need.  I should add that the rapid growth of my breasts caused me quite a deal of angst.  I am not sure if my response is strange or unique but I had a bilateral breast reduction to realign my body with my brain.   Both body and brain are now in sync.   I think that if I had not started out on a typical transition regimen and been over weight, that I would have had the same experience.  Starting on a lower dose would have worked out better for me.

Separately along the way I realised that I was non binary which may partly explain my surprising discomfort with rapid breast growth.

Trying not to over think.   In any case I am in a very good place and feel blessed in so many ways.

Safe travels

Aisla

I can't say that has been a feature for me. The changes have possibly been slow enough for my brain to cope with them. Either that or my brain is just slow and hasn't realised anything's changed yet!

Quote from: Aisla on July 16, 2014, 06:14:29 AM
HRT is a powerful therapy.  A skilled endo will help you match your rate of physical change either your emotional change and readiness.  There is no one schedule that fits us all and each person's biology reacts quite uniquely.  I hope that the following is not TMI.

In my case I have also stopped, increased, maintained or decreased hrt.  It has given me the control that I need.  I should add that the rapid growth of my breasts caused me quite a deal of angst.  I am not sure if my response is strange or unique but I had a bilateral breast reduction to realign my body with my brain.   Both body and brain are now in sync.   I think that if I had not started out on a typical transition regimen and been over weight, that I would have had the same experience.  Starting on a lower dose would have worked out better for me.

Separately along the way I realised that I was non binary which may partly explain my surprising discomfort with rapid breast growth.

Trying not to over think.   In any case I am in a very good place and feel blessed in so many ways.

Safe travels

Aisla

How did you realize that you were non-binary/how do you experience your non-binary-ness? I used to think I wasn't non-binary for a very long time (I felt stuck between male-female because body said female, brain didn't really agree but society said female body = female, so I thought I had to be female but didn't feel like it but I was supposed to be one, hence I felt stuck) but I feel much more comfortable as male than female or something inbetween like femme FTM or what have you. I also realize how much I long for a male body (shape) and I just had a moment earlier looking at my chest without a binder and experimenting how I'd look like if I had top surgery and when I aligned my nipples of how it'd look like if I was without breasts I almost broke down so I am not sure why I am doubting really. I just think I'm going through an emotionally tough period right now. I am not sure how I would feel like without my anti-depressants but probably not very nice.

Ephemeral

Your question deserves a more thorough response but am rushing to work so will respond in points.

-  I was unable to accept that I was a complete fit with what a m or an f was supposed to be, feel or act
-  most differentiating criteria seemed to speak to performance and how I would occur to others ie how they would read my gender (and perhaps sexuality)
-  the performance involved in needing to 'fully pass' was a complete turnoff ...  But the increased flexibility was attractive.  The greater range available to F in our society was something I needed
-   More feminine aspects attracted me as it gave me access to a whole range of emotion and behaviours that, as a M, I felt uncomfortable pursuing
-  some physical aspects of F attract me ie hair free face, longer hair, better grooming - hair, nails etc but large breasts which gendered me as clearly F did not
-  there was a lot about my socialisation as a M which I would like to keep
-  as a student of leadership I do not accept that the categorisation of attributes as being F or M is appropriate, indeed I see all attributes as non gendered and potentially available to a highly functioning leader or person
-   The intense dysphoria that I had could not be successfully addressed by cross dressing and therapy, only by low dose hrt, and my life has been the richer for this
-   Empowerment and sense of self authoring that followed from my understanding that my gender was unique to me, that I didn't need to choose to be 100% M or F as there were other options.  Understanding, accepting and being Aisla has caused me to become more present, more connected and more conscious
-  accepting a non binary tag, owning a non binary rage fits where I am and who I am
-  I expect to continue to grow and to change and non binary allows me to do this
-  of course many non binaries still transition physically in a binary sense and I can understand for a genetic M that being F provides greater ability to express a non binary nature, probably more acceptable, less fraught, dangerous etc.  however I am intrigued with and am finding that the rigid alpha male that I had learned to be, can evolve, can change, can be more A,  and much closer to non binary than I had understood or wished

Hope this helps.  It certainly helps me review my logic, but there again I do over think and I think that this is less about logic and more about what feels right and what feels most authentic.

Safe travels

Aisla

Thanks Aisla. It was interesting, the little you mentioned. In a way we approach it from different perspectives in that I used to be in your shoes where you are now and I used to think that since I didn't feel female but was one I was non-binary in a sense (I also went as non-binary whenever I had to gender myself and I preferred something neutral when I could because labeling myself as F didn't feel comfortable but M didn't seem right at the time either because I was an F, or so I thought) but over time I became to realize I wasn't happy just like this. I could fit a role of just being a tomboy or similar because as you say, being an F gives more freedom than being an M does, but that freedom wasn't attractive enough to me. I still got socialized as an F and was expected to behave as an F for most of the part and I just didn't appreciate it. Whenever people suggested I did something M-like or I got grouped with Ms I took it as a great compliment because it felt much more natural and desirable.

For me a big breaking point was when I was offered to actually alter my body to align more along the lines of an M in having my ovaries removed and it felt like a dream I didn't know I had came true. I did think about my identity for a long time after this because I realized something wasn't right, the way I experienced things. My feelings didn't stem from a sense of happiness of finally being rid of a difficult disease but because it aligned with how I actually perceived myself and my body. I used to think that if I could find myself within a non-binary it would be better though. I knew one FtM at the time and I kept telling myself I wasn't like him or couldn't be like him because he went all the way and such and it would of course be so much simpler if I could have stayed the way I was. I just knew at some point I couldn't do it though. It didn't make me happy, the way my body was like. It had gotten to a point where my body was simply just a "thing" I inhabited because I was so disassociated from it, and any feelings I had pertaining to my body were suppressed because it was easier to do it that way than to actually deal with it and face the reality I have a body and it doesn't match my actual sense of self.

So from the vantage point of being given the option of staying as non-binary or living as non-binary or expressing myself as non-binary because I had the freedom to do that (I have always been very masculine in my socialization with others anyway, like masculine speech pattern etc) it wasn't enough and really, that should be my answer but yet I don't feel satisfied and I always find reason to doubt myself if I think too much about it.

For you I understand though, because masculine roles are much more strict and allow less freedom. I have a pretty good idea of what kind of masculinity I possess and wish to express and while it doesn't fit a hypermasculine or macho masculinity, I wouldn't consider it non-binary either. Feminized or effeminate in some ways perhaps, but not feminine or something inbetween or either-or or neither or both.

Quote from: Ephemeral on July 16, 2014, 05:44:29 PM
Thanks Aisla. It was interesting, the little you mentioned. In a way we approach it from different perspectives in that I used to be in your shoes where you are now and I used to think that since I didn't feel female but was one I was non-binary in a sense (I also went as non-binary whenever I had to gender myself and I preferred something neutral when I could because labeling myself as F didn't feel comfortable but M didn't seem right at the time either because I was an F, or so I thought) but over time I became to realize I wasn't happy just like this. .. Whenever people suggested I did something M-like or I got grouped with Ms I took it as a great compliment because it felt much more natural and desirable.

For me a big breaking point was when I was offered to actually alter my body to align more along the lines of an M .. I used to think that if I could find myself within a non-binary it would be better though. I knew one FtM at the time and I kept telling myself I wasn't like him or couldn't be like him because he went all the way and such and it would of course be so much simpler if I could have stayed the way I was. I just knew at some point I couldn't do it though. It didn't make me happy, the way my body was like. It had gotten to a point where my body was simply just a "thing" I inhabited because I was so disassociated from it, and any feelings I had pertaining to my body were suppressed because it was easier to do it that way than to actually deal with it and face the reality I have a body and it doesn't match my actual sense of self.

So from the vantage point of being given the option of staying as non-binary or living as non-binary or expressing myself as non-binary ... it wasn't enough and really, that should be my answer but yet I don't feel satisfied and I always find reason to doubt myself if I think too much about it.

For you I understand though, because masculine roles are much more strict and allow less freedom. I have a pretty good idea of what kind of masculinity I possess and wish to express and while it doesn't fit a hypermasculine or macho masculinity, I wouldn't consider it non-binary either. Feminized or effeminate in some ways perhaps, but not feminine or something in between or either-or or neither or both.

Ephemeral

Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective.  It is interesting in that you have come from a contrary position but with slightly more nuance, urgency and sense that you are better expressed as a binary M rather than non binary.  You accepted the chance to make significant physical changes and you like being described or referred to as M.  In my case I deliberately used FFS to produce  a more androgynous result (FAS if you like) and I reduced both breasts to align with my non binary identity.  Complete transition is no more the best path for me than presenting as non binary is to you.

The interesting thing here is that it appears to be a question of balance and where your centre of gravity is.  My centre remains in the realm of non binary whereas yours appears to have moved to the opposite binary.  While there may not have been much in it for both of us it is important to understand where you lie and perhaps to accept and to understand that may in itself change as you grow and progress with your life.

I am very pleased that you have found your best path forward and look forward to when our paths next cross.

Safe travels

Aisla