Quote from: JohannaJohn on July 26, 2014, 12:43:23 PM
And any that DO prescribe it, should be SUED for medical malpractice.

And any Websites that sell it, should be SHUT DOWN and prosecuted.

Very dangerous.

After learning about EE from all the ladies here and reading about it at Wiki, I turned the web site where I found it, into the FDA.  Hopefully, they will act on the tip and have it shut down.

Quote from: Dani Davis on July 26, 2014, 12:47:09 PM
After learning about EE from all the ladies here and reading about it at Wiki, I turned the web site where I found it, into the FDA.  Hopefully, they will act on the tip and have it shut down.

Dani, my dear, you just got a +1 applause from me.  You deserve about a +5 applause for maybe saving some trans-girls LIVES immediately.

Dani, from my heart (which I now FEEL much more 6 weeks into hormones -- this mental change for me is a shock -- I am truly amazed -- I really can FEEL now --) I say to you, you are truly BRAVE...

To do the RIGHT thing...

If the United States FDA decides to take actions against this Website, it won't stop their life-threatening activites in other countries, but many trans-girls are located in the USA, and you probably are saving many lives here, that the Website you mentioned miight jeopardize.

Kudos to you, Dani...very brave of you to take ACTION, and to do the right thing...

Susan, owner of this Website, has probably saved many lives, too, of trans-girls, or potential trans-girls, by totally banning ALL discussions of a popular "herb" from Asia called PM that is wildly risky from what I can tell...dangerous, unpredictable side effects...

Hey, with LEGITIMATE medical-grade powerful females hormones such as the daily estradiol valerate and micronized progesterone I take, from MAJOR impeccable European-based pharmaceutical companies such as Bayer (the brand name of one of the hormones I take -- if you can't trust Bayer, who can you trust?), my "girls" (breasts) are starting to rather noticeable, and my nipples are totally erect and noticeable through my shirt -- they really are QUITE obvious, after jsut 6 WEEKS on strong medical grade hormones.

And obsolete, discredited, dis-approved by FDA ethynyl estadiol.  The fact that the manufacturer has WITHDRAWN this from the USA market speaks LOUDLY about how dangerous it is, well-known now since about 2004.

Dani, dear, my heartfelt thanks for probably saving many lives with your brave words and actions today.

Hugs to all,
Johanna.

Reality check ladies. First off I doubt that the site in question is in the USA. If it were, it already was criminal. To dispense drugs in the USA you need to first be given a prescription for it. No script, No sale. Or jail. (BTW-This criminality also applies to the person desiring the medications.) Some ED drug sites have a doc on staff and based on your "Truthfulness" in filling out their health assessment you get your little blue pill.

Through a much needed legal loophole a resident can purchase certain classes of medications outside the USA and 'import' up to a 3 month supply. A foreign supplier is likely not bound by USA law for a prescription. The only risk is a package being siezed by customs which I understand is a rare thing. A script will expedite you getting your goodies back from the feds.

Second, I have found no confirmation that EE is illegal to sell, only that Schering decided not to market it's trade name Estynil EE tablets in the USA. Unless it is not approved for use, like Androcur (a kick ass AA) any doc can prescribe any drug. Even 'Off Label' use is legal, just an insurance issue. ALL estrogens (as well as a laundry list of other drugs) carry a clotting risk. Back 50 years ago a young woman that lived across the hall from us died from a clot thanks to her birth control pills. There are people that would love to see Premarin banned since it is made from horse piss. All drugs have side effects and risks. If Asprin were to be submitted to the FDA it would never be approved because of all it's risks. Should that also be banned and anyone selling it jailed?

It is easy from the comfort of ivory towers here in the USA to dictate how things "should be". For many, on line pharmacies are a life-line. For many World-Wide as well as here at home. I did the DIY route for decades. If I didn't I likely would not be alive today. I am fortunate to live in a country and now in an era when I can go 'Legit' with little ramification. (BTW- Until a year ago I dared not thanks to who/what I worked for) If you have access to the internet, with very little work you also have access to a wealth of information on medications, their side effects, and their risks. It doesn't take being an MD to make an intelligent decision. (Heck, after working in the medical device field for years and seeing how my wife has been mistreated for years I earned a very healthy disrespect for doctors)

I cannot dictate how someone else should run their life. I barely have a handle on my own. I am constantly reminded by close friends, my therapist, and my wife I am not God. I cannot control my own future, so why worry so much over it? When I can I do advise and help others seek out legit ways to handle their dysphoria. Since I cannot see someone being in pain when there is help available, I cannot see cutting a possible lifeline that I myself sorely needed and used many times. Not just for HRT but for other meds as well.

</off soapbox>

Quote from: JoanneB on July 26, 2014, 05:40:21 PM

Through a much needed legal loophole a resident can purchase certain classes of medications outside the USA and 'import' up to a 3 month supply. A foreign supplier is likely not bound by USA law for a prescription. The only risk is a package being siezed by customs which I understand is a rare thing. A script will expedite you getting your goodies back from the feds.

Not anymore. FedEx has just been indicted by the Federal Government for allowing the shipping of offshore meds without a prescription. Two other major shippers here have been indicted and fined and will no longer be involved in the transport or delivery from such pharmacies abroad. Right or wrong it is being cracked down on. This list of providers includes two well known sites talked about here occasionally. 

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 26, 2014, 05:47:32 PM
Not anymore. FedEx has just been indicted by the Federal Government for allowing the shipping of offshore meds without a prescription. Two other major shippers here have been indicted and fined and will no longer be involved in the transport or delivery from such pharmacies abroad. Right or wrong it is being cracked down on. This list of providers includes two well known sites talked about here occasionally. 

Not the USPS? They delivered all my packages. I guess it still is an ongoing criminal activity that some day will get a Rico indictment. 

The FedEx indictment was only nine days ago so USPS might be gearing up to suspend shipping, who knows. Maybe the Feds want the profits all to themselves for shipping what they indict others for. Would not surprise me at all. 
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Federal authorities on Thursday charged FedEx with assisting illegal pharmacies by knowingly delivering painkillers and dangerous drugs to customers without prescriptions.

The Department of Justice announced the charges in Washington, D.C. It wants FedEx to forfeit $820 million it says the cargo company earned by assisting the illicit pharmacies.

The Memphis, Tennessee-based delivery company is accused of shipping powerful sleeping aid Ambien, anti-anxiety medications Valium and Xanax, and other drugs to customers who had no legitimate medical need and lacked valid prescriptions.

FedEx insists it did nothing wrong. The world's largest cargo company says it handles 10 million packages a day and shouldn't be in charge of "assuming criminal responsibility" for every delivery.

"We will plead not guilty. We will defend against this attack on the integrity and good name of FedEx and its employees," company spokesman Patrick Fitzgerald said in a written statement.

Fitzgerald said the Drug Enforcement Agency has refused FedEx's request for a list of online pharmacies under investigation. Without such a list, Fitzgerald said it's impossible to know which companies are operating illegally.

The Justice Department alleges that federal officials have been telling FedEx since 2004 that it was shipping dangerous drug without a prescription. The indictment also alleges that FedEx couriers in Kentucky, Tennessee and Virginia warned executives about suspicious drug deliveries.

FedEx first disclosed the federal investigation in a regulatory filing in November 2012.

Rival shipping company UPS Inc. paid $40 million last year to resolve similar allegations, and the Atlanta-based company said it would "take steps" to block illicit online drug dealers from using its delivery service.

Both companies said in regulatory filings that they were served with grand jury subpoenas between 2007 and 2009

The investigation of the country's two largest shippers stems from a blitz against the proliferation of online pharmacies launched in 2005 in San Francisco. Since then, dozens of arrests have been made, thousands of websites shuttered, and tens of millions of dollars and pills seized worldwide as investigators continue to broaden the probe beyond the operators.

The executive director of Express Association of America, a trade group created by FedEx, UPS and three other delivery services, said there is no industry-wide effort to address the policing of prescription drug deliveries.

"It's not the kind of issue we deal with as an association," association chief Mike Mullen said.

In 2011, Google Inc. agreed to pay $500 million to settle allegations by the Justice Department that it profited from ads for illegal online pharmacies.

A federal jury in 2012 convicted three men of operating illegal pharmacies that used FedEx and UPS to deliver drugs without proper prescriptions. Seven others were convicted in San Francisco previously.

When I first started my hrt I was DIY for about a month and a half before finding my Endo, and had no trouble getting my deliveries. I even ordered a 6 month supply just to have in reserve should something happen to my Endo. All deliveries came via USPS. Had I not started my hrt when I did though, none of you lovely ladies would have met me.

I can understand them cracking down on any pharmacy shipping opiate pain killers or xanax, but as far as I know hrt meds aren't controlled substances unless the laws have changed in the last 5 months.

I plan on getting my injections through an online pharmacy. I hope I won't have a problem. I do have a prescription for them though.

Allie

Thank you for the very kind words and thumbs-up, JohannaJohn!  Most appreciated.

As for offshore websites, the Dept of Homeland Security, CIA and various others regularly block offshore sites.  I know this because I used to visit several off shore movie sites to watch free movies.  Try going to them now and there is a Homeland Security seal on the pages and a message saying the site has been blocked for various reasons.  I've seen it happen to other non-movie sites as well.

Also, I might add or ask rather - if the FDA has removed a medication from the approved list (which they did in 2004 with EE), regardless of the reason, wouldn't that then make it illegal for a doctor to prescribe it?

As someone who worked in logistics it is silly to do anything to any carrier. It is simply not practical to inspect the contents of every package. Shipping would either be twice as expensive or twice as long and that would translate into a very bad economic recipe.

I personally think people ought to be Able to take whatever they want, but be made aware of the risks. The op has done some due diligence by asking around and getting information, that is great, but when we start doing too much to protect people from their own choices we start to fight a battle that cannot be won.

Quote from: Hikari on July 26, 2014, 07:17:37 PM
I personally think people ought to be Able to take whatever they want, but be made aware of the risks.

Oh I agree, just posting what our silly Government is wasting time on. Personally I feel the pharmaceutical industry and it's powerful lobby money is causing the pressure on the offshore pharmacies. The only issue I have with meds obtained without a prescription is when the recipient gets into medical trouble costing thousands to the tax payers if they are on government tax payer supported benefits.

Quote from: Dani Davis on July 26, 2014, 07:08:56 PM
Also, I might add or ask rather - if the FDA has removed a medication from the approved list (which they did in 2004 with EE), regardless of the reason, wouldn't that then make it illegal for a doctor to prescribe it?

The FDA did not really do anything. Schering just said they are no longer marketing Estynil in the USA, please take it off the list of drugs we can make (which translates into saving a LOT of paperwork for them). The FDA said OK, No Prob.

EE is still available for sale in the USA

Quote from: Hikari on July 26, 2014, 07:17:37 PM
I personally think people ought to be Able to take whatever they want, but be made aware of the risks. The op has done some due diligence by asking around and getting information, that is great, but when we start doing too much to protect people from their own choices we start to fight a battle that cannot be won.

Very well said Hikari ^^____^^. Most major carriers are in trouble now including USPS (I have a very good friend who's a postal worker). Clamping down restrictions like these may in fact send some or all into bankruptcy.

Allie

Quote from: JoanneB on July 26, 2014, 07:31:56 PM
The FDA did not really do anything. Schering just said they are no longer marketing Estynil in the USA, please take it off the list of drugs we can make (which translates into saving a LOT of paperwork for them). The FDA said OK, No Prob.

EE is still available for sale in the USA

then wiki is in error as it clearly states that the FDA removed it from the list of approved Meds.

Quote from: Dani Davis on July 26, 2014, 08:39:21 PM
then wiki is in error as it clearly states that the FDA removed it from the list of approved Meds.

Wiki's in many instances aren't that accurate so this is not surprising. In fact, when I was still in classes we were forbidden to use wiki's as sources for academic papers.

Allie

Quote from: Allyda on July 26, 2014, 08:43:45 PM
Wiki's in many instances aren't that accurate so this is not surprising. In fact, when I was still in classes we were forbidden to use wiki's as sources for academic papers.

Allie

Yep...I have found many instances of Wiki-goofs over the years.  This may be one of them.

Wikis can of course make errors, but that doesn't change the fact that Ethynyl Estradiol is dangerous, and pretty darn stupid to use when 17 beta estradiol, estradiol valerate, and other non-oral "pure" forms of our beloved estrogens are available.

I agree that if the Website is selling EE, which requires a prescription in the USA, to US residents inside the USA, then for sure the Website is engaging in criminal activity under USA law.  This is obviously the case.

The best to all,
Johanna.

Ecstatic with happiness about my mental and physical results (such as "girls") so far!

Quote from: Dani Davis on July 26, 2014, 08:39:21 PM
then wiki is in error as it clearly states that the FDA removed it from the list of approved Meds.

Original sources ( http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2004-05-05/pdf/04-10194.pdf )are all that you can maybe believe. Plus years of dealing with the feds and reading legalese helps. The Wiki does clearly say that Schering applied to the FDA to remove Estynil from it's (being Schering's) list of marketed drugs.
SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION
:

Food and Drug Administration
[Docket No. 2004N–0159]
Schering Corp. et al.; Withdrawal of
Approval of 92 New Drug Applications
and 49 Abbreviated New Drug Applications

The holders of the applications listed in the
table in this document have informed
FDA that these drug products are no
longer marketed

Also if you click on the link to the Federal Register bottom left side is where it clearly states Schering has asked for the lowing (2 pages or so of meds) to be removed from their list of marketed items. Which simply means Schering and Shering alone is no longer in the business of making those 151 drugs.

Ethinyl estradiol is commonly used in birth control pills... which is why the incredibly low amounts used in those pills (amounts measured in hundredths or less of what's in cis women's HRT, much less ours) still produce risk factors equal to or higher than HRT. Birth control pills as prescribed are considered adequately safe, but that's only because the amounts ARE so tiny.

Also, I have no idea why people think it's been yanked off the market - maybe for HRT, but not for birth control. Ortho Tri-Cyclen (http://www.myortho360.com/tricyclen/welcome), Ortho Nova, NuvaRing, etc. all still include it as a primary ingredient.

http://contraception.about.com/od/contraceptionglossaryef/g/Ethinyl-Estradiol-Synthetic-Estrogen.htm

Jenna, great additional info about ethynyl estradiol.  +1 applause for you.

Joanna.

I started out on estinyl along with biweekly injections. That was when I was around 13 or 14. I went off estinyl around the age of 30 and ceased injections a bit earlier than that.  Transitioned over to estradiol at that time. At that time, I was not aware of the dangers of estinyl other than the normal dangers of taking estrogen. I never experienced anything out of the ordinary. I believe the same effect could have been achieved with estradiol along the biweekly injections. I never took any anti-androgen.  My blood tests indicate little tiny bits of testosterone to none along with the estrogen levels comparable to a woman of my present age (56). 

Back to your question.  Any differences in the two? Not really. Most of my peers at the time were my age and some were taking premarin along with perlutal from across the border. Estinyl was the preference at the time in southern texas for doctors. Some of the girls that I witnessed transition from "male" to "female" in their 30's took estinyl and for some the results were better than others. At the time, there was a prevalent belief that estinyl was superior along with the perlutal but I think it depends on your physical makeup.

Now that I am more careful about what goes into my body, I am thankful for my switch to Estradiol and would advise anyone to NOT take estinyl because of the risks associated with it.