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Confused again. Doesn't "passing" equate "stealth"?

Started by Evelyn K, July 28, 2014, 05:48:41 PM

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Cindy

I don't tell anyone, but I cannot prevent others from doing so. I cannot put on a universal ban.

In many ways that is why my "I don't care what you think about me' armour works.

I also have to admit that I am one of the leading trans*activists in Australia, I will shortly be featured in the media so I have to be able to manage.

I can, that is why I agreed to be who I am >:-)
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Ms Grace

Being on the telly as a trans person is about as far from being stealth as you can get!
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Cindy

Quote from: Ms Grace on July 29, 2014, 05:20:17 AM
Being on the telly as a trans person is about as far from being stealth as you can get!

You know something? I realised that  :laugh:. I had to warn the people I work with, bosses and their bosses that little old frightened Cindy is going to be pushing a barrow straight in the faces of every one who has a newspaper, a television set or social media access that I am going to force them to change the public health system, the education system, social acceptance and how to deal with trans*people in Australia. Sister sister and Brother brother Aboriginal rights, kids rights, get rid of home schooling. Bullying. Allow and train surgeons and endocrinologists, psychiatrists and their Colleges to 'treat' us. Change the anti-discrimination laws to enforce them; I'm taking on a major grocery chain that isn't Coles to sue them for discrimination, I'm taking on the state governments one by one, I will not perjure myself to stop my marriage. I'm taking on the LGBTIQ Alliances to distribute their money.

I'm now secretary of ANZPATH. I'm the organiser of the most important conference on transgender rights in ANZ see www.anzpath.org

No I'm not in stealth; If I pass so what.

I'm a transgender woman and I am damned proud of that. I'm damned proud of having survived.

And I will fight like anything so that men and women who follow me can be in stealth if they so wish.

I'd better stop my rant.

But lets also say on top of that, I work full time, I'm Admin here and run the ANZGSG site, I do community counselling, I'm married, I have close friends, I have an active social life  :o I love being me.

Guess what we can have it all.

There is nothing wrong with being trans*, we are as equal or more than equal than anyone anywhere.

I came here a very frightened little creature.

I'm now Cindy.

And I ROCK - and so can you!

(I also have a problem with ego :laugh:)

Rant, pride in you all and motivation stopped for a few minutes :laugh:
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eli77

Quote from: Natalie on July 29, 2014, 03:25:28 AM
Everyone chooses their own path and not everyone will treat you a certain way simply because you are transgender. What I do know is that when you cruise around in stealth mode you always have to worry about this person or that person "finding out" or worry what whomever will do if it's discovered. I've been there and it eventually consumed me like I've seen to virtually every other person that chooses that path. You cannot say this  or that, have to watch what stories you tell, how you explain your life, have to be careful who you bring around those that do know, be mindful of what they say, how they say it....it's all just BS. Fact is, you ARE transgender and that will never go away and it IS part of who you are. You have control over who you allow to be in your life and thus, how they essentially treat you because if someone treats you poorly you can disassociate yourselves from them and find people that won't treat you like that.

After everything I've been through and the dozens of people in my life nobody treats me any different than any other woman they know. Nobody fixates on me being a transsexual, nobody talks about it, jokes about it; it's in the past where it belongs. They don't say, "Oh yeah she is a transsexual" or make any distinctions like that even around other transgender people. THAT is acceptance. Not cruising around having to be careful about everything you say or do around people you know.

Trans folk always make that assumption about me. That I exert all this effort to stay stealth. I don't get it. I feel like, my own experience of my life is something I should be able to express and have people listen. I'm not scared (at least not of that), I'm not careful. That isn't what my life looks like.

I guess I just don't know how to transmute my experience into something people will accept or understand. I'm an out lesbian. I wear dude's clothes and I have short hair and tattoos. I'm visibly queer. I have a girlfriend who I'm totally comfortable talking about at work. I'm an editor and trans-related books come across my desk all the time. The last one to mention trans people was a psychiatrist's memoir that I worked on last month. Hell, I have actually walked into an editorial meeting and pitched the idea of acquiring a memoir of a well-known trans celebrity/activist--to a room absent of people who know anything about my medical history. I've volunteered at a queer theatre and worked alongside other trans people without them knowing my status. I've hung out with other trans folk who are as invisible and stealth as I am, and later disclosed to each other. I've hung out with visibly trans people without giving a damn that it supposedly "puts a target on me" as other stealth folks like to say. I have no fear--not of being outed, I have way better things to be afraid of than that. I can't say it more clearly.

I don't have a history to hide. The number of pictures of me that exist is tiny, and my parents have pretty much all of them. Because I hate having pictures of myself. I certainly don't own any of myself from pre-transition. They make me super uncomfortable even now. I don't own anything that has my old name on it, except a handful of computer files from school. But most importantly I don't pretend like I didn't do anything that I did. I was a tomboy geek then, and I'm a tomboy geek now. I don't have a problem with my past. I don't need to hide anything.

Actually, that's not true. Covering for the 2 years when I did nothing but go to medical appointments is a pain in the butt, but I prefer that to the looks of pity. I bet you all just assumed the medical treatment was transition-related. Nope. I developed a chronic condition in high school. It's horrible, but I manage it. And it isn't anyone's business unless I want it to be.

To me my transsexualism, my transition, is all woven in with the worst moments of my life. With starring vacant-eyed in the mirror and telling myself "I hate you" over and over and over until my voice chokes and I draw red lines with my razor all over my arm to block out the feeling. With wanting to die and trying to figure out ways to trick myself into breathing for another day, another hour. So, no, I don't want to answer any ->-bleeped-<-ing questions from stranger #37, thanks. I don't want to deal with awkward handshakes and awkwarder hugs that remind me every time what I am, how incredibly broken and sad and screwed-up a creature is under the bright eyes and easy smile. I want to keep myself safe and keep my sanity from bleeding out the cracks in my skin. I'm held together with duct tape and wishful thinking. I talk about being trans with people I love and trust, and on here where nobody knows who I am.

I am not going to judge anyone for wanting to be open about their history. If that is what works for you? Brilliant. Extend the same courtesy to me. And rather than making assumptions about my life, about any person's life who lives stealth, ask and listen to the answers.
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herekitten

I find this question fascinating because everyone's answer is based on their life experience, background, convictions, etc.   And it all stems from a simple question requesting what the difference is.  I admire and respect all the answers because everyone's life walk is unique and anyone in our sisterhood can tell you that while we are all different, we are all in the same boat in various stages of reaching whatever destination we have set before us. I see it as a learning from others and listening carefully; to come away a better person.

PS --  What I meant by having an "eternal menstrual cycle" is that when dating, it was a good excuse to put off sex or wandering hands. Only one man actually liked it and I was quite shocked and did not know how to respond, but I simply told him that I did not like it during my cycle. My worst experience was when I experienced 'date rape', but my thighs are quite strong and had him in a headlock 'cause he was going places that would have proven quite the surprise to him -- its not the way to disclose.
It is the lives we encounter that make life worth living. - Guy De Maupassant
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Ducks

I didn't date at all during transition, I just powered through the standards of care and kept it in my pants until it was anatomically possible to take things as far as *I* wanted to go.  When sexual attention did happen, it was great to be able to respond without any reservation
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innainka

As in my often delusional vision of the world, lol, I do see beyond the rigors of both, passing and stealth. I live my life as a natal woman, I do not speak of my past as though I am proud of the illness I was born with, the disability of genetic malfunction which was my birth defect. As those who had Cancer yet had privilege to be Cancer free do not speak of such as though a virtue.

I make the choice of living my life as a woman, because of the simple detail, I AM A WOMAN, yet I am also transparent in the respect of any question anyone would have as to the origin of my being, I do tell of my illness and the fight for freedom.

Am I stealth, not really, I am simply living as who I really am, and am I passing, I think NOT, because the term passing carries clout of being someone other then, someone camouflaging self to look like other. I am not other, nor am I camouflaging anything, I am transparent if provoked, yet I have done my job to embody and be socially conditioned as a woman just as natal woman do in their childhood and adolescence.

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Natalie

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 29, 2014, 06:21:27 AM
Trans folk always make that assumption about me. That I exert all this effort to stay stealth. I don't get it. I feel like, my own experience of my life is something I should be able to express and have people listen. I'm not scared (at least not of that), I'm not careful. That isn't what my life looks like. I guess I just don't know how to transmute my experience into something people will accept or understand. I'm an out lesbian. I wear dude's clothes and I have short hair and tattoos. I'm visibly queer. I have a girlfriend who I'm totally comfortable talking about at work.

You can do that and people make assumptions based on extensive evidence from other transgender people. If you are not scared of how people react to transgender people then that's just naive because violence against our social minority happens all the time. You do not have a magic force-field that prohibits any type of violence. The fact that you are not open about being transgender equates to you putting effort into other people not finding out. Being open as a lesbian and having a girlfriend has absolutely nothing to do with being transgender.

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 29, 2014, 06:21:27 AMI'm an editor and trans-related books come across my desk all the time. The last one to mention trans people was a psychiatrist's memoir that I worked on last month. Hell, I have actually walked into an editorial meeting and pitched the idea of acquiring a memoir of a well-known trans celebrity/activist--to a room absent of people who know anything about my medical history. I've volunteered at a queer theatre and worked alongside other trans people without them knowing my status. I've hung out with other trans folk who are as invisible and stealth as I am, and later disclosed to each other. I've hung out with visibly trans people without giving a damn that it supposedly "puts a target on me" as other stealth folks like to say. I have no fear--not of being outed, I have way better things to be afraid of than that. I can't say it more clearly.
None of that has anything to do with you being transgender. It doesn't matter how active you are in the GBLT community or how many gay or transgender friends you have or who you associate with. You still have to watch what you say or it will out you and the fact that you live stealth only reaffirms this irrespective if you feel you don't have to because you can never escape the fact of your birth condition. If you are stealth your birth sex is one of many things you have to hide. It seems you keep telling yourself that everything is okay and how open your life is as a way to deal with the situation. Keep telling yourself the same thing long enough and enough times you might just start to believe it.

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 29, 2014, 06:21:27 AM
I don't have a history to hide. The number of pictures of me that exist is tiny, and my parents have pretty much all of them. Because I hate having pictures of myself. I certainly don't own any of myself from pre-transition. They make me super uncomfortable even now. I don't own anything that has my old name on it, except a handful of computer files from school. But most importantly I don't pretend like I didn't do anything that I did. I was a tomboy geek then, and I'm a tomboy geek now. I don't have a problem with my past. I don't need to hide anything. Actually, that's not true. Covering for the 2 years when I did nothing but go to medical appointments is a pain in the butt, but I prefer that to the looks of pity. I bet you all just assumed the medical treatment was transition-related. Nope. I developed a chronic condition in high school. It's horrible, but I manage it. And it isn't anyone's business unless I want it to be.
Seems self-refuting. If you don't have to hide anything then you don't need to live stealth. You don't have to hide the fact that you are transgender, you don't have to watch what you say, and you don't have to worry about people knowing you are transgender except for maybe the probability of violence which is a very real thing. I am sure you tell the people that do know to not say anything to other people that don't know.

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 29, 2014, 06:21:27 AMTo me my transsexualism, my transition, is all woven in with the worst moments of my life. With starring vacant-eyed in the mirror and telling myself "I hate you" over and over and over until my voice chokes and I draw red lines with my razor all over my arm to block out the feeling. With wanting to die and trying to figure out ways to trick myself into breathing for another day, another hour. So, no, I don't want to answer any ->-bleeped-<-ing questions from stranger #37, thanks. I don't want to deal with awkward handshakes and awkwarder hugs that remind me every time what I am, how incredibly broken and sad and screwed-up a creature is under the bright eyes and easy smile. I want to keep myself safe and keep my sanity from bleeding out the cracks in my skin. I'm held together with duct tape and wishful thinking. I talk about being trans with people I love and trust, and on here where nobody knows who I am.

I am not going to judge anyone for wanting to be open about their history. If that is what works for you? Brilliant. Extend the same courtesy to me. And rather than making assumptions about my life, about any person's life who lives stealth, ask and listen to the answers.
My assumptions are all supported by what evidence about transgender people is out there. We all have a past and a story to tell; some worse than others. I am open and I don't need to hide anything to anyone! What I do have control over is who I allow in my reference group; who I allow to be my friend and essentially how they treat me. Being a transsexual does not dictate my life and I don't allow myself to "hide" things or be selective in what I say or to whom it's said to. I mean, your statement here only validated almost everything I already said previously even though I suspect you were clearly attempting to refute it. If that works for you and your life then more power to you, but it will only continue to cause problems because it virtually always does no matter how much you adamantly deny it. One day in the years to come I suspect, with great certainty, that it will happen to you too and all this could be avoided, but it's your life and you live it however you want.
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Evelyn K

Quote from: Natalie on July 29, 2014, 01:51:39 PM
You can do that and people make assumptions based on extensive evidence from other transgender people. If you are not scared of how people react to transgender people then that's just naive because violence against our social minority happens all the time. You do not have a magic force-field that prohibits any type of violence. The fact that you are not open about being transgender equates to you putting effort into other people not finding out. Being open as a lesbian and having a girlfriend has absolutely nothing to do with being transgender.

If you're not actively thinking about revealing (the process isn't running in your task manager), then how does this equate to putting effort into "not revealing" at all? It's a non sequitur. Information can be exchanged on a need to know basis. If you are confident that you are passing and the topic never comes up, then eventually that belief becomes who and what you are. Passing privilege *is* a force field. But we're talking passing in the strictest sense.

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eli77

Quote from: Natalie on July 29, 2014, 01:51:39 PM
If that works for you and your life then more power to you, but it will only continue to cause problems because it virtually always does no matter how much you adamantly deny it. One day in the years to come I suspect, with great certainty, that it will happen to you too and all this could be avoided, but it's your life and you live it however you want.

I considered going through and refuting your points about my life one by one, but it really just comes down to: Why would you imagine that you know more about me and my life than I do? I really don't get that. I'm not part of some general standard, some average, some statistical probability. I am me. One individual with my own history, my own family, friends, worries, fears, hopes, dreams... None of which you know anything about. I don't exist within your model. That doesn't mean you should force the things I say to fit what you believe, it means you should consider that maybe your model isn't as all encompassing as you think it is.

And sure, maybe someday someone will beat the ->-bleeped-<- out of me because they find out I'm trans. Or maybe I'll be raped because I'm female. Or maybe I'll be bashed because I'm queer. Or maybe things will get bad and I'll jump off a bloody bridge. So it goes.

But in the meantime, why not live my life the way it works for me? Why not be happy and joke with friends and love my family and ->-bleeped-<- my girlfriend and enjoy the sunsets?
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Joanna Dark

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 29, 2014, 05:12:48 PM
But in the meantime, why not live my life the way it works for me? Why not be happy and joke with friends and love my family and <not allowed> my girlfriend and enjoy the sunsets?

I lovelovelove your philosophy. It's beautiful. (So is your writing BTW).
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Ms Grace

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 29, 2014, 04:41:44 PM
If you're not actively thinking about revealing (the process isn't running in your task manager), then how does this equate to putting effort into "not revealing" at all? It's a non sequitur. Information can be exchanged on a need to know basis. If you are confident that you are passing and the topic never comes up, then eventually that belief becomes who and what you are. Passing privilege *is* a force field. But we're talking passing in the strictest sense.

Just as there are degrees of passing there are degrees of being stealth. Stealth implies some less of trying to keep one's genetic gender history from those in their life. How deep one wants to be stealth would surely I require a fair bit of effort. Not being stealth I couldn't comment but I would presume it would require some degree of constant vigilance, even if it was running in the background, particularly being wary of people from one's past suddenly showing up.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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herekitten

Quote from: Ms Grace on July 29, 2014, 06:00:39 PM
Just as there are degrees of passing there are degrees of being stealth. Stealth implies some less of trying to keep one's genetic gender history from those in their life. How deep one wants to be stealth would surely I require a fair bit of effort. Not being stealth I couldn't comment but I would presume it would require some degree of constant vigilance, even if it was running in the background, particularly being wary of people from one's past suddenly showing up.

At some point, and I can't remember when, you reach a point where you forget completely and then you catch a snippet of the news or, if you are pre like me, you are trying on a nice pair of jeans and voila! you are reminded.. ugh ugh ugh. But there are those long periods of time when you completely forget. As for the past, if it is like mine, it works because there is no "male" past. I had the hardest time trying to explain on paper a transition that never occurred from male to female.  Yes, that does happen. After my surgery, I guess I'll forget for even longer periods of time and I will finally have a physical transition in the peepee area lol!. Either way, life is interesting so I live it.
It is the lives we encounter that make life worth living. - Guy De Maupassant
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eli77

Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 29, 2014, 05:42:28 PMI lovelovelove your philosophy. It's beautiful. (So is your writing BTW).

Aww, that's so sweet of you to say. Thank you!

Quote from: Ms Grace on July 29, 2014, 06:00:39 PM
Just as there are degrees of passing there are degrees of being stealth. Stealth implies some less of trying to keep one's genetic gender history from those in their life. How deep one wants to be stealth would surely I require a fair bit of effort. Not being stealth I couldn't comment but I would presume it would require some degree of constant vigilance, even if it was running in the background, particularly being wary of people from one's past suddenly showing up.

Speaking for me, personally, I'd rather just be surprised than spend all my time thinking about it. The whole point of being stealth for me is so that I don't have to think about it if I don't want to.

The one time it did happen was SUPER awkward and embarrassing, but it isn't like I died or something. And besides, it happened when I was back in the city I grew up in visiting a friend. He happened to have a nurse on staff that day that had been a regular carer for him back when I was like 8 or 9. (He's disabled.) You'd think that would make me harder to recognize, but apparently not! So me and my mate had a laugh about it and moved on.

Most people who knew me only briefly or tangentially don't remember I'm the same person, or are medical personnel. Those that knew me better are either long, long gone or family friends and they know the score or I avoid them like the plague, depending on the person in question.

I'm not "deep stealth" as they say. My parents know, my parents' partners know, my sister knows, her fiancee knows, my step-brothers know, my aunts and first cousins know. My sister's closest friends know, my parents' closest friends know. My best friend knows, my best friend's mother knows, one of my best friend's friends knows. My girlfriend knows, my girlfriend's parents and sister know, a trans friend of my girl knows. A handful of friends of one of my aunts knows because she outed me without my consent and I'm still a bit pissed at her about that, though she has probably apologized enough by now.

There was a phase I went through during and after transition where me and my family slowly and carefully disclosed to the people we felt should know. But that period has been over for nearly 3 years now. The new feel has long worn off. The overwhelming majority of the people I interact with on a daily basis don't know my history and have no business knowing. It's become my choice who knows and who doesn't. Who I tell and who I don't. And that, to me, feels really good.

The reason I was so angry with my aunt, is that it felt like... like she'd told them something deeply, deeply intimate about me. Like... Oh this is my niece and she likes to be held down by her girlfriend when they have sex. Yesh. I hold in my head intimate details about lots of people's lives, including about her for goodness sake. And I don't wander around spilling them in anyone's ear. That would be seriously unethical.

It took me a while to learn that I only feel comfortable sharing intimacy with people that I'm really connected to, really love. I have lots of trust issues because of some of the things that happened in my life and that is just who I am. So for me, it feels comfy, it feels good that I can keep that stuff inside my skin. And when I want to talk, I go to someone that I feel will really hear me.
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Satinjoy

It interesting in the posts - and its so nice to be in here by the way with the girls - that the other meaning of stealth as trans is not looked at.  That of still passing as your birth gender, while at the same time, being in reality physically transitioned, though not necessary surgically.

I pass often as cis male, am genderqueer if you look at the nails or I lean back or my suit opens up, and hear not a word from anyone, accept that they want to know how on earth my nails look so nice.  Stealth?  Dunno, for if anyone asked, I am out as genderqueer, unless they have malicious intent.  But I could just as easily say fully TS since I have 14 months of hormones flying around in me, with the rather wonderful results I so desperately need to see and be.

But that was always the second meaning of stealth.  Just really not outing yourself.  In some social conditions, I have to do that and then I may go so far as what I had called - erroneously based on this thread - deep stealth.  In costume, so to speak, as someone that is not a transsexual.  Unrecognizable and with a secret identity.

When GQ the term does not apply very well.  And I rather enjoy that.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
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Natalie

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 29, 2014, 04:41:44 PM
If you're not actively thinking about revealing (the process isn't running in your task manager), then how does this equate to putting effort into "not revealing" at all? It's a non sequitur. Information can be exchanged on a need to know basis. If you are confident that you are passing and the topic never comes up, then eventually that belief becomes who and what you are. Passing privilege *is* a force field. But we're talking passing in the strictest sense.

It's logical, even when one does not actively think about it they still have done and will do things that aide them in keeping themselves "stealth." Your statement is essentially self-refuting because it implies its own falsity. The fact that one shares information on a "need to know basis" is done because there are certain things they do not want to reveal which equates to putting in some type of effort, however small, into making sure they stay stealth. They do not need to actively think about it 24\7 especially once they have their routine down. Your last statement is also inherently false because you are claiming that if one believes something enough then it becomes true. Delusions do not always result in reality. Fact is, people might describe themselves differently depending on whether the question they are asked implies situational specificity or not, but your position here is claiming that who anyone is as a person is dependent on how others treat them in society. The simple fact of being a transgender person refutes this erroneous claim because we all suffer strain because of how people adversely treat us because of our transgender status. I cannot "make" my transsexualism go away no matter how much I delude myself into believing that I am not a transsexual person. Thus, if your theory was correct then we would be a big group of virtually nothing but self-deprecating people, however, that is simply not so.

Then again, I don't fixate on whether or not I pass in society because I truly don't care what other insignificant people think about me, but to claim passing is a "privilege" that enables someone to magically advert all this other stuff is probably...that's down right hilarious! People use "stealth" because they believe they might be judged in light of a negative stereotype about their social identity or that they may inadvertently act  in some way to confirm a negative stereotype of their devalued group status. When transsexual women value their ability in a certain domain (e.g. passing) but it is one in which their group is stereotyped as something socially negative (e.g. being a transsexual woman) then passing becomes a focal point in their lives and they do everything in their power to do it. After doing it for so long it becomes routine and they may not think about "passing" or being stealth on a daily basis, but they do it in order to alleviate any type of stigma attached to their devalued group membership irrespective if they have to fixate on it everyday or not. Since transsexual women are actively devalued and seen with less worth than women passing and being stealth is fundamentally important, but it comes with various psychological consequences I've already talked about.
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Evelyn K

Quote from: Natalie on July 29, 2014, 08:24:20 PM
It's logical, even when one does not actively think about it they still have done and will do things that aide them in keeping themselves "stealth."

Sure everyone has a bit of insecurity, that's a given, probably about as much as other cis gals who are insecure about the stealthiness of their fat arses. ;D

But you seem to be making a huge leap to think that somehow being a transwoman who passes has an underlying insecurity that's monopolizing their thoughts to the point of personal affliction. Passing privilege is a *huge relief* for the transwoman.

QuoteYour statement is essentially self-refuting because it implies its own falsity. The fact that one shares information on a "need to know basis" is done because there are certain things they do not want to reveal which equates to putting in some type of effort, however small, into making sure they stay stealth. They do not need to actively think about it 24\7 especially once they have their routine down.

This doesn't make sense. Just because somebody isn't asking me if I used to be a cat doesn't mean it's a thing in the back of my mind I'm continuously putting an effort not to reveal.

QuoteYour last statement is also inherently false because you are claiming that if one believes something enough then it becomes true. Delusions do not always result in reality. Fact is, people might describe themselves differently depending on whether the question they are asked implies situational specificity or not, but your position here is claiming that who anyone is as a person is dependent on how others treat them in society. The simple fact of being a transgender person refutes this erroneous claim because we all suffer strain because of how people adversely treat us because of our transgender status. I cannot "make" my transsexualism go away no matter how much I delude myself into believing that I am not a transsexual person.

Then again, I don't fixate on whether or not I pass in society because I truly don't care what other insignificant people think about me, but to claim passing is a "privilege" that enables someone to magically advert all this other stuff is probably...that's down right hilarious!

If you are passing in spades, your risk of random violence is about as much as the next cis woman...
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eli77

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 29, 2014, 08:51:57 PM
But you seem to be making a huge leap to think that somehow being a transwoman who passes has an underlying insecurity that's monopolizing their thoughts to the point of personal affliction.

I think it depends a lot on the person in question. I do know trans folk who feel or felt like that, and passing became a really unhealthy obsession. I also know trans folks for whom it became completely second nature.

Me, I don't feel insecure but I do feel guilty sometimes for being stealth, because I know that the more people who are open and out the better for all of us. But I'm just not at a place in my head where I think that would be healthy for me. My sister put it best when she said that "you wish you wanted to be out, but you don't." She was the one who convinced me to give myself some time and not to just be open about it right away. And maybe sometime I will be out, but it's not right for me now.

And then there are those who are unpassable and totally content, or passable and happy to be out and open. Or those who are open and it causes constant strain.

I feel like it just comes down to taking the tools you have and trying to do what feels best for you.


I also feel like sometimes there is a bit of... distance or failure of communication between generations on this one. For a young transitioner, stealth is a lot more tempting. You aren't established in your profession, you don't have a lot of history, you are more likely to be up for moving cities, you don't have kids or a long term relationship to deal with, and your chances of being passable are really high. You are also less likely to have the financial security to insulate yourself from some of the discrimination or violence, so being stealth becomes a method of self-defense.
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Jenna Marie

...I have approximately a hundred billion things I don't tell people, including that I used to be a giant nerd in my past and went to space camp, or that I had eye surgery, and on and on. :) There will come a time, and I can see it on the horizon, when transition is one of those things; when it will take an act of will to recall it in order TO tell people. It's not always a conscious *or* unconscious suppression.
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Missy~rmdlm

Oh Hell no, they aren't similar at all. Stealth is a very specific condition, of no-one knowing about a persons past. Passing merely means functioning in a normal gender role.
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