Why do people (in general) initially assume that an ftm person is a butch lesbian?   Does it get annoying especially for the gay men in here?

Quote from: makipu on July 31, 2014, 05:12:14 PM
Why do people (in general) initially assume that an ftm person is a butch lesbian?   Does it get annoying especially for the gay men in here?

Because butch appearing females are generally butch lesbians.  Pre-testosterone trans men usually appear to be butch females. 

I don't know about anyone else, but I know I'm too effeminate looking to pass as male, so most people assume I'm female.
It gets very annoying. It's always frustrating being mistaken for someone I'm not.

Quote from: aross1015 on July 31, 2014, 05:17:34 PM
Because butch appearing females are generally butch lesbians.  Pre-testosterone trans men usually appear to be butch females.

Yep.  Except I would say "usually", rather than generally.  You will find a lot of rural butch looking straight women.

Quote from: Brett on July 31, 2014, 08:28:08 PM
Yep.  Except I would say "usually", rather than generally.  You will find a lot of rural butch looking straight women.

The two can be used interchangeably. 

When I was pre-T, people always assumed I was butch lesbian.  It upset me twofold because a) my gender was being incorrectly assume and b) people considered me to be "gay".  Even though I am only attracted to women, I wasn't a "gay woman" - and I hated being thought of as such.

I think it was assumed early on. Might have lost a friend, not because she thought I was trans but because she thought I was coming out as a lesbian. After about 8-10 months on T, I am pretty much reliably read as male.

--Jay

It didn't bother me to be assumed lesbian because, well, there's nothing wrong with being a lesbian! But it did bother me when people assumed I was a girl... For obvious reasons.
I tend to date guys more than I date girls so it was weird for people to think that I was solely into women but now it's weird that people think I'm solely into men. Assumptions are just a weird thing as it is. It never bothered me having to explain that I was in a relationship with a man though. Even if I'm sure they assumed it was a cover up, lol

Funnily enough, people used to assume I was a lesbian before I came out as trans despite me dating guys and not being butch or anything.

My mom thought I was coming out to her as lesbian when I came out to her as trans. I think the reason it happens is twofold. In the first place, there is a stereotype of the butch lesbian in her boots and plaid flannel and alternative haircut. I've noticed a lot of transguys (myself included) who wear some combination of these things.
Secondly, homosexuality is way more common than transsexuality. People know what lesbianism is. Most people--especially those who aren't educated on the topic--can wrap their heads around homosexuality better than they can transsexuality. More visibility=more education=more people at least think they know enough about a topic to make assumptions about other people based on their knowledge. How often these are accurate assumptions is anyone's guess.
Basically people have preconceived notions about what a lesbian is supposed to look like and a lot of them don't know that trans people exist. So, they see a "girl" who looks like "she's" dressed up masculinely and they think "oh, she's one of those lesbians"and that's the end of that thought lyrics.
Of course, the possibility that straight women may wish to dress in a masculine way doesn't seem to occur to these people. But then, they're usually pretty ignorant so. :T

I have a very masculine appearance both through my clothing, style, hair, but also due to my genetics naturally. Nobody's had the balls to tell me to my face yet, but there's always been some rumor at school that I'm a butch lesbian, which bothers me but I put it in the back of my mind. I figure that if I don't pass as a male in public (about 50-80% depending where I am/what I wear), then I pass as a butch lesbian to others. It's very annoying, and I hope that (as a pansexual), if I ever have a boyfriend, we won't be seen as a straight couple but rather as a homosexual couple consisting of two men. Egh..

The worst for me is when people (usually guys, but sometimes even girls) ask me if they can get in on the action and it's like 1-Not a lesbian.  This is not the couple you are looking for, and 2- What kind of ->-bleeped-<- just asks someone if they can peep or join in on their sex life?

If somehow I could have a full female transition I would still not desire to have a relationship with a man. I would just like to be able to be a full time (or at  least a part time) female with my wife. Would that make me a lesbian?

Quote from: mac1 on August 02, 2014, 09:52:50 AM
If somehow I could have a full female transition I would still not desire to have a relationship with a man. I would just like to be able to be a full time (or at  least a part time) female with my wife. Would that make me a lesbian?

I believe so, yes.

Quote from: devention on August 01, 2014, 11:16:10 PM
My mom thought I was coming out to her as lesbian when I came out to her as trans. I think the reason it happens is twofold. In the first place, there is a stereotype of the butch lesbian in her boots and plaid flannel and alternative haircut. I've noticed a lot of transguys (myself included) who wear some combination of these things.
Secondly, homosexuality is way more common than transsexuality. People know what lesbianism is. Most people--especially those who aren't educated on the topic--can wrap their heads around homosexuality better than they can transsexuality. More visibility=more education=more people at least think they know enough about a topic to make assumptions about other people based on their knowledge. How often these are accurate assumptions is anyone's guess.
Basically people have preconceived notions about what a lesbian is supposed to look like and a lot of them don't know that trans people exist. So, they see a "girl" who looks like "she's" dressed up masculinely and they think "oh, she's one of those lesbians"and that's the end of that thought lyrics.
Of course, the possibility that straight women may wish to dress in a masculine way doesn't seem to occur to these people. But then, they're usually pretty ignorant so. :T

Nicely said, I agree here.

It's weird because only in LGBT events very few people read me as butch....when I don't pass as gay. I have nothing against lesbians but I don't like to be misgendered. They never think about me being trans, only when I tell them they say "aah yes, not it makes sense".

What's funny is that in everyday life, out of LGBT events, I pass as a boy without problems...

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on July 31, 2014, 09:29:20 PM
When I was pre-T, people always assumed I was butch lesbian.  It upset me twofold because a) my gender was being incorrectly assume and b) people considered me to be "gay".  Even though I am only attracted to women, I wasn't a "gay woman" - and I hated being thought of as such.

Me, too. I'm not necessarily straight, but my primary attraction to women. I do not identify with or feel any connection to the lesbian community at all, despite a failed attempt at doing so when I was still trying to figure myself out in my early teens. I also hate when lesbians assume I'm one of them and hit on me or try to buddy up with me. It makes me angry. I've gotten some rude statements from some of them, too. Thankfully this will be going away now that I'm on T. It's quite a relief.

Quote from: mac1 on August 02, 2014, 09:52:50 AM
If somehow I could have a full female transition I would still not desire to have a relationship with a man. I would just like to be able to be a full time (or at  least a part time) female with my wife. Would that make me a lesbian?

Yes.  A lesbian is a woman who is interested in/attracted to/etc other women.

Quote from: Edge on August 01, 2014, 06:52:33 PM
Funnily enough, people used to assume I was a lesbian before I came out as trans despite me dating guys and not being butch or anything.

Me too, though I was probably presenting as pretty butch a lot of the time without knowing that word for it. I was raised partly in rural areas where a woman being a little rough or wearing jeans and tee shirts was normal, and I was mostly mistaken for a lesbian when I was living in cities.

I will say that most people who assumed I was a lesbian and said anything about it were lesbians themselves.

Quote from: Kiwi on August 02, 2014, 03:42:42 PM
What's funny is that in everyday life, out of LGBT events, I pass as a boy without problems...

My experience is pretty close to this. I travel a lot and I find that in any locale where there's a large gay/lesbian presence, I'm more likely to be read as a butch female. Which usually means larger cities and/or more "liberal" states. And, unfortunately, LGBT events. Especially if I'm out and about with a female partner (vs. a male partner).

Sometimes people even go out of their way to mention my femaleness, to sort of advertise that they "know what's up" (i.e. that I'm a butch lesbian) and that they are very accepting about it. Which is both frustrating and hilarious, because they could not be more wrong. I'm far more attracted to men than I am to women and I've never been a part of the lesbian community.

In more rural locales or places with fewer visible gay/lesbian people I'm generally read as a guy. Even when I'm with a male partner. Which can sometimes be dangerous, but so it goes.