its simple

If you are getting stared at with looks of disgust or curiosity then you are most likely being clocked (unless you have something else that might trigger that , I dunno a huge tattoo or somethin)

I have been stared at so much during the past few months I ve learned to recognize what they mean,I know when someone is clocking me , I know when someone looks at me with lust or simple just happened to look at me or dislikes something about my style etc etc

I had children ask sometimes, after hearing my deep voice (not so deep according to my daughters): "are you a boy or a girl/" My immediate answer is: "I am a girl with a deep voice" and smile.  Never had a kid say anything else

In my 3 year of doing the RLE I had not had a single case of an stranger asking me the question. However, in one occasion, a meeting with the big honchos, an arshole who was trying to be 'funny" during the work lunch asked me: "I have been trying to decided if you are a man or women"
I responded in my most seductive and coy voice: "why, are you interested..,..?" Everybody burst laughing so hard. Not a peep from the dush. The CEO later on said to me... "I will have to watch, you are a really bad-ass girl"


So, basically in the absence of any verbal cues, I assume they are admiring me or envying me or they find me exotic for some other reason.

Well prehrt when I would present in female mode, I'd get laughed at by teenage girls. Some dudes would just stare me down with a blank face. Then other times after hrt before I started passing, I'd get misgendered. Sooo idk, if you're a person thats good at reading body language and such, you'll be able to tell or not if you're getting clocked. Then again you truly wont know unless a verbal exchange happens.

With regular people I find it's almost impossible to be 100% sure but most of the time you can be relatively sure based on how and where they look, if they give you the double take, if they focus on specific body parts, etc.

If someone keeps staring at your hands, or your neck the odds are they are clocking you. However if they keep focusing on your chest, your bum or your feet they are checking you out.

As mentioned earlier facial expressions are also a good indication, if you have trouble reading them there are websites dedicated to help train you to spot the various expressions.

In my experience, it's usually little ol ladies that'll stare with a puzzled look, especially when shopping

In just walking around it depends on how you're being looked at... if people are laughing or pointing or address you with male pronouns then yeah, you're being clocked but if not I'd try to chill out I know it's hard though.  People pick up on that anxious energy really quick, just try to stay confident.

It's hard though.  I've been passing 100% for 7 months now... but my ears perk up and play tricks on me if I think someone is addressing me with a male pronoun (or talking about me using male pronouns).  I'm hoping that will go away soon >_< It's been awhile and still hasn't though.  Tonight was a great microcosm of that.  I went to the grocery store shopping and was turning heads in the good way... then I go to the drive -thru for a coffee and overheard a manager (who i later realized didn't even see me) telling the cashier girl who helped me 'did you give them' and my stomach dropped (a gender neutral prounoun? NOO!) I even thought for a second I had been called 'him'. Then I thought things through more and realized it didn't happen but does this happen to anyone else? Ruined my otherwise great night I've even thought before I've heard cis friends addressed this way (1 time it really did happen just out of a mistake) Anyone else get jumpy about that?

Thanks all for the replies; just thought I'd offer my own (admittedly limited) insight.  Personally, I think that a great many of us tend to think that we are passing when in fact it is just that nobody is outwardly reacting to us being trans.  I haven't heard male pronouns in a year and a half, but I know I'm usually not passing.  If I bring my gender up in conversation with someone I met recently (who doesn't know how obsessed with queer politics I am) I always try to gauge their reaction.  Nobody is ever surprised.  The one time I thought I was passing in this large group of new friends, I cautiously disclosed to a friend, and she just shouted out "well, yeah, we all know that!". 

Not to be a downer, but just because people aren't shouting slurs or boring holes into your skull with their gaze doesn't mean they don't know.  It may not say good things about our chances of passing, but it does say something positive about the world today: Many, many people simply don't care.  They know, and they don't care.

Best,
Sasha

"So my question is this: How do you know when someone is clocking you?  I know that with how I'm built, I shouldn't be thinking about passibility-it's only driving me deeper and deeper into the depths of my own soul crushing despair-but I can't help but wonder, how can I tell for certain when I am not passing, in order to better gauge what does and does not work for someone in my position? 

Any tips at all on how to better pass would also be appreciated, so long as the word "confidence" doesn't come up.  That one's gotten old really quickly! "

This one is easy.  Stop with the purple lipstick and other behaviors that draw attention to yourself.  Not everyone can successfully pull-off the "Goth" look.

Being 6' tall has nothing to do with being read.   I am just under 6' and I am often complimented on my height.

Quote from: jamienicoled on August 13, 2014, 06:11:53 PM
I've been FT for five years and I've traveled throughout the US and other countries (I'm always on the Go...lol). I know by looking in the mirror...lol  I'm SO not beautiful enough that the world hands ME a free pass. Still... I've only been called out with direct confrontation once for my past (excluding a few giggles ...and one or two small children who said, "Mommy..is that a man?"..lol). It was about four years ago and he was an adult stranger (well, a 23-24yo punk) ...and in calling me out he said, "Your a guy..I knew it! My friends didn't believe me...lol From across the room, you KINDA look like a chick, but I knew you wasn't". Don't misunderstand... I'm not saying I NEVER get questioned for my gender, because I certainly do. I'll let my old voice slip out or I talk "male" too much..lol.  but in general, I easily live as a female. However, it wasn't that way when I started to transition, my gender was often in question! I seen it, I heard the words and laughs. ...But as I learnt from my mistakes, as I perfected my female side and built the confidence within, the number of people who viewed me as "male" (...bored holes into my skull..lol) quickly diminished ...and that's a fact, not just something I believe. The people around me didn't change, I changed by transforming myself into a female. Rarely ...almost never does anyone look at me like they once did ...and I KNOW the difference between a "Your a dude look" and the "I'm jealous of you look". I have a hard time believing that with all the reports of bullying, discrimination, profiling, hazing etc going on ...and considering all the places I've been, all the things I've done and the ten's of thousands of people I've come in contact with over the past five years.. I just can't see HOW it could be that Only ONE Jerk could be disturbed enough, mean enough and or bold enough to call me out with a direct confrontation? Logic tells me... it would happen way more often if I'm being seen as a dude ...and if I ...or anyone is not being confronted by ->-bleeped-<-s, we're probably doing something right. Apparently, we're being viewed as a females. I can't buy that no one cares ...because I observer ignorant people speaking out about crap they don't like every day. I also know, people ARE observant of things ...because I felt their eyes all over me when I first started to transition. Lastly, there's no doubt that people are hateful and mean because they attack, sometimes kill innocent individuals every day because they simply don't like them!

Many times people don't react like we expect to our gender disclosure, simply because they don't know how to react (All of the sudden, eggshells are place the floor!). Most have very little knowledge of trans ...and what they do know is typically negative ...and because of this, deep down inside... people DON"T like "trans". So often we see a defensive reaction and they say something like "I knew" to clearly convey... "You didn't fool ME!!" And how many times do we go along with stuff we're not sure about ..or wasn't aware of, simply because we didn't want to look sTupiD??...lol It's a natural reaction to say, "I know" or "I understand" even if we don't. People want to appear intelligent, sharp... not moronic or blind...lol  They want to be the first to know, not the last...hence someone exclaiming something like  "Well yeah, we all knew that!" Also, we often "falsely" compliment things to make someone feel good (I love your hat! It was a great idea to buy a hot tub! ...meanwhile, you know they're broke ass poor!...lol)  So again logic would say, if all these people know that I was once a dude... someone, anyone...lol  would occasionally say something like "You look just like a girl!" or "I had no idea!" just to simply be kind. Yet, I almost never get these things said to me ...and I've met ..and disclosed my past to a LOT of nice people... still most react with... "Oh..Ok" ..or "Yeah..I knew" because it's a safe reply.

This is spot on, couldn't of wrote it better!! 

I had very similar feelings early on and still do at times, but I never was called out, not even in my in-between stages. NOW!! I don't say this to be bragging or anything.....I am shocked that I never was confronted even as boldly as your were once, but it probably was only because I never put myself in any type of situation to do so. I kept fairly private. Even when I did decide to become more social, I still was perceived the same as I am now.....again a shock at times. Sure I did get some looks here and there, but was unsure if it was because they were wondering something or just staring like some people can do. I don't believe my smooth transition had anything to do to me being lucky with my size or looks, or what area I live in. I strongly believe it had to do with how I presented myself. I took things very slow! I didn't try to push my femininity onto anyone....and quite frankly there wasn't too much femininity....I was hideous back then!!

Sometimes I wish I would of struggled and was called out a bit. I think it would of helped me know sooner when I got to the point of blending in more. I am very comfortable in my skin now, I still have insecurities feelings wondering if I am somewhat an attractive woman, but I don't question if I am accepted as anything other than a woman. I think I was at this stage much earlier, but I never knew or believed it.

Very nice post!!

I feel like with all of this talk of passing you might be discounting the fact that you just happen to look better than I do.  There are certain deeply ingrained traits that automatically distinguish people in our minds as either male or female-it's why you can read someone even in a thumbnail photograph-and for those of us who don't have that, it's not that simple.

You can sit in the most demure way possible and wear as much makeup as you please, but if you have a heavy brow (which I do) a broad chin (which I also do), huge hands and feet with a male figure (which I have and will never be able to get rid of) and short hair that doesn't flatter your face (which I also have, and will never be able to grow out due to it's texture), people are going to read you as trans*, that's how it is.  Chances are either you won the genetic lottery, or you aren't passing as well as you think you are...

Also-I like having a bolder look.  I can't see any point in passing if I'm still pretending to be something that I'm not-it would be just like things were pre-transition!  Besides, anyone who doesn't think I can pull off the "goth" look (it's not goth, by the way but I'm not going to go into that), has clearly never seen me wearing purple lipstick.  Even if it is attention grabing.  Besides, I get harassed even when there isn't anything on my lips.  I was actually followed for three blocks yesterday by this man who just kept eyeballing me with disgust until I managed to break his line of sight.  And that was just in jeans and a t-shirt.

Thanks,
Sasha

One thing I'm trying to figure out is how to tell for certain whether employees in stores have clocked me or are just doing what they would do to any customer. When someone comes to ask me if I'm finding everything I'm looking for, I often have a moment of panic unless I know this is standard for the store. In some places, after all, the attendants will leave everyone alone, and in others, they will go up to many people to ask them if they need help. But I'm convinced that some employees, uncertain if something is "off" about someone they've seen, will approach them to confirm or disprove their suspicions.

This happened to me recently in a Kohl's. The few times I've braved going there en femme, I generally have no obvious issues, and the cashiers are fine, even once my voice and male name on my card have given me away for sure. But one time, an employee was looking at me as I browsed, and after a minute she came up to me and asked if I was finding everything all right. Normally, no employee asks me anything in Kohl's. I said "mm hmm" in as neutral a voice as I could get, but I'm sure my voice still gave me away. Later, she followed me into the dressing room area and knocked on my door for no clear reason after walking past a number of presumably empty rooms. I told her I was in there, and she said "oh!" and walked way. Maybe it was in my head, but I just got a weird vibe from it.

This may be going against the grain, but I sometimes think that--depending on one's passability overall--wearing bolder makeup (not drag makeup, but a noticeable lip colour and/or eyeshadow) can help you pass rather than barely noticeable makeup, since--at best--that makeup can help gender you at a glance. When I was just wearing jeans and a t-shirt and subtle makeup, I got more stares; when I began wearing red lipstick and/or some shade of eyeshadow that was not in-your-face-but-was-noticeable, people didn't stare as much.

"I was actually followed for three blocks yesterday by this man who just kept eyeballing me with disgust until I managed to break his line of sight.  And that was just in jeans and a t-shirt."

That is really creepy, and I am really sorry that happens to you.  Honestly, you look really cute in your avatar pic, and if that is really you, I am really surprised that you are being read as much as you seem to be.

Besides your frame, (I really think we are built about the same), and your hair, (I have the same problem), what do you think it is?

Quote from: Juliett on August 08, 2014, 03:58:11 PM
It is a fairly simple universal rule. Unless someone uses a slur or prevents you entering female space, you can safely assume you're not being "clocked"

You can't. Unless you find out a way to read other people's minds.

People might stare at you for any number of reasons. They might be staring at you because you look like someone they know. They might be staring because they think you're beautiful. They might be checking out your outfit (or more likely for us, looking at how odd our outfit is because early in transition we often don't know any better. But that doesn't mean you're getting read, it could just as easily mean "haha, look at that woman with the poor fashion sense.") Or if you're tall, they might just be looking at you because you're tall. Tall women attract attention, regardless of whether they're "passing" or not.

There is basically no way to know for sure.

I see it this way. I'm gendered female by basically everyone, nobody has asked me or confronted me about whether I'm trans, and only a few occasional people in any given day stare at me, so anything beyond that is just assuming things, and letting my mind run away with me. If it doesn't actively interfere with my life, there's no reason to worry about it.

Quote from: Gabrielle_22 on August 13, 2014, 10:50:47 PM
One thing I'm trying to figure out is how to tell for certain whether employees in stores have clocked me or are just doing what they would do to any customer. When someone comes to ask me if I'm finding everything I'm looking for, I often have a moment of panic unless I know this is standard for the store. In some places, after all, the attendants will leave everyone alone, and in others, they will go up to many people to ask them if they need help. But I'm convinced that some employees, uncertain if something is "off" about someone they've seen, will approach them to confirm or disprove their suspicions.

This happened to me recently in a Kohl's. The few times I've braved going there en femme, I generally have no obvious issues, and the cashiers are fine, even once my voice and male name on my card have given me away for sure. But one time, an employee was looking at me as I browsed, and after a minute she came up to me and asked if I was finding everything all right. Normally, no employee asks me anything in Kohl's. I said "mm hmm" in as neutral a voice as I could get, but I'm sure my voice still gave me away. Later, she followed me into the dressing room area and knocked on my door for no clear reason after walking past a number of presumably empty rooms. I told her I was in there, and she said "oh!" and walked way. Maybe it was in my head, but I just got a weird vibe from it.

This may be going against the grain, but I sometimes think that--depending on one's passability overall--wearing bolder makeup (not drag makeup, but a noticeable lip colour and/or eyeshadow) can help you pass rather than barely noticeable makeup, since--at best--that makeup can help gender you at a glance. When I was just wearing jeans and a t-shirt and subtle makeup, I got more stares; when I began wearing red lipstick and/or some shade of eyeshadow that was not in-your-face-but-was-noticeable, people didn't stare as much.

I was buying a Riunite Lambrusco at the grocery store yesterday, because I am pretty sure for every glass of that I pour a wine snob spontaneously combusts; but in order to accomplish my quest of ridding the world of wine snobs I had to go thru the check out counter and hand over my ID- which still has my male name and gender marker.

So the cashier says "Ma'am, I need to see your ID", I hand him my ID, he looks at it and says "1985. That will be $8.54". After that I hand him a $10 and he says "Thank you ma'am, do you want this double bagged?".

So either, the cashier didn't read the ID and I passed or he did read my male name and still respected my gender identity. The way I see it both of those are just as good as the other, I am not some super stealth person, I just want to be treated as a woman.

today when I was waiting for the bus , an attractive guy smiled really big at me and even turned his head back to keep looking at me.

I felt like poo. I thought he ToTaLy clocked me and shed a tear or five.

Melanie, you need to get it in your head that you're not being clocked.  You're really cute, and they're checking you out.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on August 13, 2014, 10:26:38 PM
You can sit in the most demure way possible and wear as much makeup as you please, but if you have a heavy brow (which I do) a broad chin (which I also do), huge hands and feet with a male figure (which I have and will never be able to get rid of) and short hair that doesn't flatter your face (which I also have, and will never be able to grow out due to it's texture), people are going to read you as trans*, that's how it is.  Chances are either you won the genetic lottery, or you aren't passing as well as you think you are...

Yesterday Grace said something that I think really applies here.  The vast majority of people go by the same mantra: "I'm cis, you're cis, we're all cis."  And unless something out of place really catches them off guard (beard shadow on a woman, etc), then it doesn't really even occur to them that you could be trans.

But Sasha, you've said that you pretty much go out of your way to not conform to gender norms.  There are plenty of us who pass just fine even with large hands and a tall frame.  It's about presentation, mannerisms, fashion, and makeup.  But if you're specifically trying not to conform to those norms, why would you expect people's reactions to be different?

Katie,

I don't always go out of my way to disrupt norms.  Sometimes, I do try hard to fit in appearance wise, even if my personality isn't exactly the stereotypical passive woman.  I do dress in a distinctive way, but it's rarely anything outlandish.  There are times that I do want to fit in, and can't seem to do it.  That's what bothers me.  I know most of the makeup tricks in the book at this point and my mannerisms aren't anything to give me away either.

I understand what Grace was getting at; but I don't know if I agree.  I think that people read me all the time, and simply aren't reacting.  They use female pronouns because they see a woman, but they often know that woman is transgender and don't react.  I can't really think why else I get the looks I do.

Maybe it is your frame of mind, your 'identity'.  Maybe since you identify as androgynous or GQ, you are somehow projecting that to others.