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Stuff my mom says. Help me respond.

Started by LeftistLeslie, August 10, 2014, 09:15:11 PM

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LeftistLeslie

"I'm not comfortable with you going out like that. Here, in Arlington, in Jacksonville, someone might stab you. Or someone from work might see you. What do you get out of going out like that? Why do you have to do this? What are you going to do when you can't be a teacher anymore? I just want to understand. Why can't you just do that at home? Why did you come out on facebook?"

:embarrassed:

I don't know how to answer other than to say it is what it is, this is who I am. I'm becoming a woman. Women go out in public sometimes. They also work too. I'm a sexual minority, and yes people committing hate crimes or discriminating is a thing. There is nothing I can do about it.

"I can understand you being gay, maybe even bisexual but this...It feels like you are committing a slow suicide" She bursts into tears. I am without words.
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Bombadil

I don't know that there is a perfect response. The responses you've given in this thread sound good. You may have to just be repetitive with her. You may reach a point where you tell her, you've explained why and maybe she should read some books, go to support group or get some therapy (whatever you think will work). 

I have also found that sometimes keeping it really simple is best. Like if you trying to respond to all her specific concerns you get drawn down the rabbit hole. Like "I appreciate your concern, but this is who I am. I want to live a full life as the person I am and I believe I'll be able to handle the challenges that come my way. I need to do this." And just stick to that regardless of the specific issues she brings up.






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Hikari

The solution is likely to live in a better area...but, the danger is pretty situational too. One thing Eve Online has taught me is that since police don't show up until a crime is being committed nowhere is truly safe.

As for your mother, you could tell her that if you don't get to be who you are, it would also be committing slow suicide. Could be a tad bit dramatic but, since she is already putting it in those terms.... Does anything usually happen when you are out?

I am part time but, I have encountered no harassment or violence directed at me. A trans woman got stabbed riding the same train I have ridden many times...does that make going out risky? No, not anymore than anyone else living their life, because I could be killed anytime by anyone and if it were to happen at least I would die a woman.

Your mother is just going to have to come to grips with the concept that life is risky, and her child is living life.
15 years on Susans, where has all the time gone?
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Valleyrie

I'll just answer by giving the way I'd respond to this.

"First of all, it's my life and whether you feel comfortable or uncomfortable about it is up to you but that won't change anything. If someone wants to stab me for being me/different then go ahead. I'm not afraid to be myself. I don't care what anyone thinks, I know who I am and no one's opinion is going to change that. As you said, this is a slow suicide. And not one I chose but there are ways that help people like myself if you're willing to listen and understand. And, what's exactly wrong with being transgender or having different gender preferences?"

Yeah... so that's how I'd go about it whether that's a good way or not. Just showing you how I would. :) I agree with Hikari though, your Mum sounds very worried about you that's all. Life is risky and it wouldn't be worth it if it weren't. I guess it's just her motherly instinct to want to protect and know that you're okay.
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Illuminess

Every time we step out of our homes we are risking our lives, and there are all sorts of people in the world. How we present ourselves, no matter what we're wearing, will always offend someone. Your mom is probably only thinking of the social implications of being trans, and sure, it won't be a walk in the park, but we should always be who we are no matter what anyone thinks. It's just part of the path we take. You can either let it bring you down or let it strengthen your reserve and your resilience through the fears and phobias of the public arena.

The real "slow suicide" is to repress everything, to deny who you are, and to comply with what others insist you should be. What's the point of just dressing up at home only to go back into the world to live a lie? Being trans isn't a religion as religion should be a private matter. Being trans is a major part of your identity. It's not what you believe about yourself, it's who you are. If you can't be who you are then what's the point? Unfortunately, so many out there ask themselves that question and take drastic measures. So I'd say your mom should really consider the reality of that. Not that you'd take that kind of dark direction, but it's clearly far less dangerous to face the music than to turn it off forever.
△ ☾ Rıνεя Aяıп Lαυяıε ☽ △

"Despair holds a sweetness that only an artist's tongue can taste."Illuminess
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suzifrommd

Quote from: LeftistLeslie on August 10, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
"I'm not comfortable with you going out like that. Here, in Arlington, in Jacksonville, someone might stab you. Or someone from work might see you. What do you get out of going out like that?

Mom, I wasn't raised to be scared to show who I really am. You didn't teach me to hide in fear. You taught me to be proud to show my face.

Quote from: LeftistLeslie on August 10, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
Why do you have to do this?

Being transgender is wired into our brains. It's not a choice. If we deny our gender, we will literally drive ourselves crazy.

Quote from: LeftistLeslie on August 10, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
What are you going to do when you can't be a teacher anymore?

A lot of transgender people are teachers. I know of this woman who calls herself suzifrommd who transitioned last year and returned to the classroom as her female self. No one gave her the slightest trouble and she got excellent evaluations. Jennifer Finney Boylan became a famous writer and continues to teach in a college classroom after her transition.

Quote from: LeftistLeslie on August 10, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
I just want to understand. Why can't you just do that at home? Why did you come out on facebook?"

What's to understand is that it causes misery to see my male self. I can't truly be myself anywhere unless I'm female. If you really want to understand, I'll help you find some information on what it means to be transgender.

Quote from: LeftistLeslie on August 10, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
"I can understand you being gay, maybe even bisexual but this...It feels like you are committing a slow suicide" She bursts into tears. I am without words.

Mom, I see this is upsetting to you, but I can't change who I am just to keep you from being upset or worried. You're going to have to deal with your fear and hurt, because I can't change who I am.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Gabrielle_22

Quote from: LeftistLeslie on August 10, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
"I'm not comfortable with you going out like that. Here, in Arlington, in Jacksonville, someone might stab you. Or someone from work might see you. What do you get out of going out like that? Why do you have to do this? What are you going to do when you can't be a teacher anymore? I just want to understand. Why can't you just do that at home? Why did you come out on facebook?"

:embarrassed:

I don't know how to answer other than to say it is what it is, this is who I am. I'm becoming a woman. Women go out in public sometimes. They also work too. I'm a sexual minority, and yes people committing hate crimes or discriminating is a thing. There is nothing I can do about it.

"I can understand you being gay, maybe even bisexual but this...It feels like you are committing a slow suicide" She bursts into tears. I am without words.


I have had a few similar conversations with my mother recently. However, because home for me is a part of the Caribbean in which being attacked for being gay (being trans, cross-dressing, etc. are all lumped together in people's minds as the same "deviant un-Christian behaviour"), I have not actually presented as female in front her yet, beyond showing her photos of myself in girl mode. Even just the photos were a big problem for her, so I can sympathise.

My suggestions would be these: tell her that you came out on Facebook, present as female whe you go out, etc. because you know, beyond any doubt, that you are a woman. To dress up only at home, to pretend in front your friends on social media, etc. would be to deny who you are. Dressing up at home is like playing a little game; it implies you can do it every now and then in secret to get it out of your system, have your little fun, and all will be well once you've done your "quota" for the day. But for her to imply that you should dress at home trivialises (if you use this word, perhaps preface it with "but with all due respect" or something similar to soften it) the reality that you are, full-time, a woman, that you cannot just get something out of your system. It hurts you to tell her this, and you know that she is saying these things because she loves you, but you would not have put her or yourself through any of this stress if you were not 100% certain of your identity as transgender, as a transwoman, as a woman. It is not something, tell her, that you would have chosen, and it is not her fault or based on anything that she "did" to you; and, if you can present as a female, it will not be a problem because you accept who you are.

Most people, you could tell her, have an identity like a hallway: it goes in one way, and the doorway that leads to who you are is always open. But for those of us who are transgender, that doorway is often forcibly closed for most of our life. We can hear music, laughter, life on the other side, but until we begin living as who we know we are, that door--such a fundamental part of anyone's identity--remains closed. Tell her how painful that has been for you. And that the only way to get rid of that pain is to live as a woman, to show yourself to the rest of the world, just as everyone does. To show your boy form to the rest of the world is not to show yourself, but to walk around wearing a mask.

Be firm with her that you will always be careful when you go out; this, after all, is a common concern for parents. Perhaps even tell her, if she insists it is not safe, that you are in a relatively safe place compared to some other parts of the world; it would be much more dangerous if you lived in Jamaica, for instance, or Russia. Tell her you have thought through this for a long time and that you would never do anything to willfully endanger yourself. Sometimes, just reassuring a parent, showing that you care for her/his concern, can do a great deal.

I hope some of this helps.
"The time will come / when, with elation / you will greet yourself arriving / at your own door, in your own mirror / and each will smile at the other's welcome, / and say, sit here. Eat. / You will love again the stranger who was your self./ Give wine. Give bread. Give back your heart / to itself, to the stranger who has loved you / all your life, whom you ignored" - Walcott, "Love after Love"
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Beverly

Quote from: LeftistLeslie on August 10, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
"I'm not comfortable with you going out like that. Here, in Arlington, in Jacksonville, someone might stab you. Or someone from work might see you. What do you get out of going out like that? Why do you have to do this? What are you going to do when you can't be a teacher anymore? I just want to understand. Why can't you just do that at home? Why did you come out on facebook?"

Because Mum, I am fed up lying to you, lying to myself and lying to everyone I meet. The shame of lying every day is killing me. I live a lie 24/7. I have no peace. It is like a continuous torture.


Quote from: LeftistLeslie on August 10, 2014, 09:15:11 PM"I can understand you being gay, maybe even bisexual but this...It feels like you are committing a slow suicide" She bursts into tears. I am without words.

I have to live my life however it turns out. I have to be me, what else can I do? It is hard for me, but if you help me it could be easier. Please do not stand in my way because that is not helping me.
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Taka

you could tell her that this is something you are doing for yourself, in order to become happy and able to live your life to its fullest. and that you're going to do it whether she understands it or not, because it is your choice to be yourself, and life isn't worth living unless you can be yourself.

and try to ask her why it's so difficult to understand that you want to be happy. and whether she wants a doll or her child. because her child is trans, not simply gay, and you really wish she could love you as you are instead of hoping that you will become something that you can never be.

i have a brother who refuses to get repetitive about things. that helps a lot, and makes people start discussing things on his terms instead of pushing their own beliefs on him. if she keeps asking, tell her you already answered that question, and your answer is still the same, but you'll answer any new questions if she wants to get to know you as you are. it's her own fault if she doesn't want to even try to understand. don't blame her though, she might need time to accept that your world is rose colored and not pitch black like hers seems to be from the questions she's asking. it's a little difficult to see colors in the dark.
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Christy

I'm not sure what to tell you. Your mother seems to think this is something you do because it's a sort of game to you which of course it isn't. "Why can't you just do this at home?" As if it's something you do simply because you like it. She does not seem to understand what a transgender person is. I guess the best response would be to tell her that when you present as female you are being the real you and that you would like to be the real you all the time, not just at home.
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Annabella

Tell your mother you will make a deal with her. You will wear men's clothing when you are in public with her if she will shave her head and wear a fake mustache when she is in public with you.
Then ask her why that sounds like a ridiculous expectation to have of someone, and how she would feel going into public like that, and whether if she had a form of cancer that caused her to grow a penis, she would then immediately start dressing and presenting as a man, and not seek to have it removed.

Maybe she'll get it, maybe she won't.
My money is on her not getting it. A lot of people who don't understand trans* folk just don't have a frame of reference for how they would feel in a similar situation.
"But you can only lie about who you are for so long without going crazy."
― Ellen Wittlinger, Parrotfish
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Taka

being trans is not a choice no more than being gay is. transitioning is a choice that you make in order to become happy. your mother doesn't need to understand what it is to be trans, but you should at least tell her that transitioning is a choice you've made for your own life in order to be able to live happily, and telling you to keep living as your birth gender really is the same as telling you to stay so unhappy for the rest of your life that you could just as well go die right now. but your choice is to live, so she really should stop trying to interfere with choices that you know are right for you, even if she doesn't believe the same.

trying to appease her will only make her suffering last longer, since that will give her hope that maybe one day you'll change your mind. telling her straight out that you won't change your mind no matter what she says, and not letting her try to change your mind, will make her realize much sooner that her only choice is to either come to terms with it, or lose her child.

this is something that my brothers are trying to teach me. make a choice that you can stand for, and then stand for it. don't let anyone think for even a moment that they can make you change your mind by finding all kinds of arguments that you've already considered and know won't change your mind. it's every person's right to make their own choices for their own life, though you'd better be ready for the consequences as well. like watching your mother suffer while she's still unable to accept reality. you're not the one hurting her the most though, it's herself.
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jeninindiana

#12
"I can understand you being gay, maybe even bisexual but this...It feels like you are committing a slow suicide" She bursts into tears. I am without words."

your mom is feeling a loss of a son and to her it does feel like a "suicide" or a death of her son who she has always knows for that there is not much you can say to her it is a grieving process that she is going through it will take time for your mom to come to terms with her loss I am a mom to three sons and I always worry about their adjustment in the cold cruel world and every heartbreak is our heartbreak . im sure she is very very worried about your future happiness will you ever be able to have children , will you be hurt by others , exc. if my sons were trans I would accept that and I don't think its so much an issue of not accepting as much as an issue of personal loss but more than that is just worry about how the world is going to treat her child and how cruel the world might be and a feeling of helplessness in her ability to stop that from happening . those are all just feelings that she is going to have to manage but I can understand all the reasons why she would be emotional .

it would help her to let her know of the support and acceptance you have from the people around you and the people in the world who give you support and treat you with understanding which im sure is really her primary concern that you will not have that support and express to her that you are happy ;)
she is simply never going to accept any situation that she perceives is going to lead to you being miserable or any situation that is going to lead to the big wide world being cruel or unfair or hurtful to her child . what you need is to convince her that you are becoming happy and that you do have support and acceptance from other people around you . this will reduce her anxiety over the issue and she will accept something that will lead to your happiness but if its not something she believes will lead to your happiness she will fight it with ever ounce of her being and exert all the influence she has in your life to prevent it and discourage you from doing something she believes will lead to your misery and destruction if you focus on convincing her that wont happen and your decision and life choice is going to lead to positive things and not negative things you will be amazed at how supportive she becomes

im sure she has some feelings of personal loss but that's not really the main issue for her and even the above statement she made is most likely her focused effort to change your mind about the whole thing think of someone who is on a very concentrated and focused mission to make sure you have a life where you will be most happy and no matter what she has to do shes not going to abandon her mission mothers can be very determined and if she is aware that she has any influence over your decision making and where she knows she has influence . its less likely I think that her tears are caused by sadness than they are caused by fear for you and her attempt to manipulate your feelings and therefore your actions ... in other words I seriously do not think she is as heartbroken and she would like for you to believe that she is but no doubt she really is having strong emotions but those feelings are fear based not really sadness based.
~duplicate and manifest Gods perfect design for woman to be healthy in mind body and spirit~ ^-^
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Gabrielle_22

There's an essay by Lennard J. Davis called "Gaining a Daughter: a Father's Transgendered Tale" in The Chronicle of Higher Education that might help (link below). Although it's from a father's perspective, some of what it says should apply to your mother, as well. I don't know if she would be interested in reading it, but it might help. I'm going to pass it on to my father myself soon. It seems to echo a lot of fears that even very liberal parents who are unfamiliar with trans* issues might experience when their child comes out.

Here is a link to it: http://www.lennarddavis.com/downloads/gainingadaughter.pdf

Hope that helps.
"The time will come / when, with elation / you will greet yourself arriving / at your own door, in your own mirror / and each will smile at the other's welcome, / and say, sit here. Eat. / You will love again the stranger who was your self./ Give wine. Give bread. Give back your heart / to itself, to the stranger who has loved you / all your life, whom you ignored" - Walcott, "Love after Love"
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Beverly

Quote from: Gabrielle_22 on August 19, 2014, 03:03:55 PM
There's an essay by Lennard J. Davis called "Gaining a Daughter: a Father's Transgendered Tale" in The Chronicle of Higher Education that might help

I think that article would be a disaster for the OP.

It reads as someone who is coping with his son's choice to live as a woman. A want rather than a need. Phrases leap out at me like

- My son says that it's all about a person's right to choose.

- Members of the fourth wave, who like to call themselves "->-bleeped-<-s" (perhaps in solidarity
with 60's "hippies") see challenging the fixity of gender as their most important goal.

- When my wife and I asked my son why he thinks he is transgendered, his snappy retort was,
"I don't know which bathroom to use." When he is wearing a dress, should he use the men's
room or the women's room?


These would, IMO, be lifelines to the OP's mother because none of them shout need or necessity.

YMMV of course...
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Gabrielle_22

Thanks for bringing those points up. I don't read this piece as ultimately screaming out "choice" rather than "need." His daughter, angry at one point, phones her father and says "'I've been thinking, and I'm really upset that you won't accept me for who I am'"--am, not chose to be. Moreover, the end, where Davis acknowledges, through pronouns and explicitly saying it, that he has gained a daughter, shows to me that his child has become his daughter. Overall, the essay shows, in a simple way, that gender is anything but simple. The tone of the piece is lighthearted, to be sure, but that very lightheartedness was partly why I thought it might be useful for someone who is already under stress. And I thought there was a chance that the father's own initial perplexity might mirror something in the OP's mother, so she could relate. There is some issue with terminology in here, including "transgendered" vs. "transgender," but this can be clarified later on.

It's up to the OP, of course--I just wanted to share something that might be useful tonally and perspective-wise.



"The time will come / when, with elation / you will greet yourself arriving / at your own door, in your own mirror / and each will smile at the other's welcome, / and say, sit here. Eat. / You will love again the stranger who was your self./ Give wine. Give bread. Give back your heart / to itself, to the stranger who has loved you / all your life, whom you ignored" - Walcott, "Love after Love"
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