Emma, I think Emmaline has really captured the essence of the situation and has provided an excellent analysis and a practicable strategy to assist in overcoming your situation. As she pointed out, we live a difficult existence, difficulty not only from the world we live in, but also from our own internal world. As Kermit so aptly put it, it isn't easy being green. I hope you understand that we are more than willing to help you with this, and that since this is a forum of discussion, various opinions will out. You will find, however, some consensus, virtual nodding of heads, if you will. I have read this thread and I cast my vote with Emmaline.

Quote from: emmaghev on August 20, 2014, 04:31:23 AM
I told him, "but u do understand that in reality  the person that looks like a female has a penis. he said yes. i told him, so your okay with a male that looks like a female with male parts to have sexual intercourse with you.

I have all kinds of problems with your statement. First, not all transsexual women "have a penis" and I suspect that you'll be hard pressed to find a transsexual woman that wants him to play with it or put it inside his butthole. Furthermore, we ARE NOT MEN that "look" like women. It sort of irritates me that you would come here so ignorant and insult the whole of transsexual women because of your ignorance. Biological sex characteristics (i.e a penis) does not determine a person's gender identity and had you actually took some time to read a sentence or two about transsexualism you'd be well aware of this fact. A transsexual women in a relationship with a man is a "HETEROSEXUAL" relationship irrespective if she is packing a man tumor around or not. I mean...WTF here? You are not trying to "hurt our feelings" as you blatantly insult the whole transsexual community with your willful ignorance. Screw you.

Take a chill pill Natalie, Emma is no different to the millions of people who have not been taught about us and are fed bullsh$& by the media.  She came here looking for answers to save her marriage, and can walk away with a lot of real information.  Attacking her or anyone for that harms us all.

Emma, you may like to search you tube for a program called 'the gender puzzle'.  It will help you understand what transgender people are.

OK people.

We have a post from a woman who raises concerns about HER partner and how SHE can deal with the issues.

I think you have all been on this support site long enough that if someone is asking for help we should be able to dismiss our personal opinion and express comments that address the situation in a mature and feeling way.

If you cannot do that, then why respond?

Trying to score cheap point is not support.

I'm disappointed with the attitudes that have been expressed in this thread and note that the OP has not returned.

Cindy

Emma, I'm sorry for your stressful situation. Your husband is not abnormal, human sexuality is quite diverse and his attraction is quite common.  Hopefully you two can talk through it with or without the help of a therapist.  I suspect your instincts are to understand but also to protect yourself and I would encourage that approach.  There may be spice you can add to your sex life or there may not be, but on the flip side he needs to know you matter too and he has to meet your needs of honest and clear communication and fidelity assuming that is what you require (and I expect it is as it would be for me).

Best wishes, I'm sorry you are under such stress.

Whilst ignorance is a bad thing, this person is willing to learn and isn't trying to intentionally cause harm. We should be understanding and try help as best we can to educate Emma. I understand how offensive and harsh her comments may have been, I thought that too. We all have our ignorances but being open and wanting to understand is what really matters in a situation like this. I'm not trying to start anything here at all but I think we should take this opportunity to make positive.

Emma, please don't feel threatened or scared to post again. You're only here for legit concerns. I'd just like to clear things up for you so you can better understand why what you said may have offended transgender people and how you can avoid doing that again in future.

*Our physical bodies do not determine our gender, people do and if someone is a transgender woman then they're nothing more than that - a woman; same goes for transgender men - no matter what they look like or what parts they have.
*Many transgender people experience ignorance/prejudice and hate from most of society due to the lack of knowledge on this topic; we were born like this and didn't asks for any of this; there is nothing wrong with being transgender, however. We are human just like you and every other person on this planet, we feel and have emotions too.
*Transsexual porn is very misleading and shouldn't be taken seriously, just like most porn, it is merely fantasy. Most transgender people experience dysphoria because of their bodies and most aren't comfortable with their genitals.
*Many transgender people experience depression because of the lack of support and understanding from those close to them and feel they need to hide, thus causing problems such as clinical depression. I'd also like to mention that the rate of suicide amongst transgender people is much, much higher than that of the general population.
*If someone identifies as a transgender man then it is only respectful to use male pronouns and refer to them as their chosen name, vice versa.
*Being transgender is something we're born with, we feel it on the inside and know who we are, we don't do this to deceive anyone, we're just being ourselves and we more than often lead lives full of misery because of that. There have been many studies to prove that it is real, I'm sure a quick Google search could yield some useful information/evidence.
*Gender and sexual orientation are very different things. Gender is who we are on the inside. That can be male, female or non-binary from what I know. Sexual orientation is what gender we are attracted to, and there's more sexual orientations than just lesbian, gay and bi-sexual but I won't delve into that as it's irrelevant. Example: Someone could be a transgender woman and like women; they're therefore lesbian. A man attracted to a transgender woman is straight. You get the idea. The word transgender simply implies that someone's gender-identity doesn't match their sex (their physical body).
*Gender and sex are also different things. Gender is in the mind and sex is physical. We are still nonetheless whatever gender we identify as, our bodies (sex) just don't match our mind (gender) but that doesn't mean you should think any less of us because of that.

I'm not sure how to answer your questions but I guess role-playing with a strap-on could work. As long as you're comfortable doing so, of course. I hope I was able to clear some things up for you, feel free to ask more questions if you need. I know it can be a hard concept to grasp, it is very complex, after all.

I am not going to apologize for standing up against ignorance. That would go against everything I believe in. Like that fact that is site is supposed to be here to support trans people. Teaching that transphobia (even if it is accidental) is ok is not supporting trans people. Teaching that objectifying trans women is ok is not supporting trans people. Being apologetic for those of us who are standing up against these things which are not ok is insulting to me at least and I'm guessing others who consider trans people to be equal to cis people.
If I get in trouble or kicked off the site for saying so, so be it. I'm not the kind of person who will happily sit down and shut up just because people I don't agree with say I should.

Edge - I think you are right to stand up for what you believe in. I hope that the Mods do not penalise you for it.

I can understand the OP not knowing the subtleties of cis/trans matters as most people do not, so I can forgive the OP for asking in a bid to gain more understanding.

Maybe the comments against the original posting could have been worded a bit differently but the points made were valid nonetheless and stand on their own merits.

Honestly, while OP did say she wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings, she failed.  Educating people who don't understand is important, but the post was quite ignorant and offensive.  Especially the "male that looks like a female" part.  I didn't come here to see transphobia, I came here to connect to other trans people.

It is ignorance but isn't it better to try and educate someone willing to listen and understand than to further escalate the issue? I know how offensive some of the things she said are, I don't deny that at all. They could of really triggered someone and made them feel really bad for all I know which isn't what someone who is transgender needs, especially since many of us come here to get away from it. Maybe I'm just really calm at the moment, I know this stuff usually makes me angry but let's try and keep the thread as informative as possible.

I don't think anyone is trying to teach that transphobia is okay (it's certainly not!). But it's better to try and educate someone to prevent any further mistakes in future than to not at all. We'd simply be letting the ignorance continue or prevail by not speaking up about it in a way we can debunk some misconceptions on the topic of transgender people. We're all going to have different opinions at the end of the day but we should try do our best to make any positive change we can. That's just my stance on this though, and no one has to agree with me.

I mean no offense and am not trying to make attacks at anyone, that's the last thing I'd want to do on here. I think it's best if we just try to calm down and do the best we can to make good of this. I won't be arguing with anyone so please don't try to, I respect everyone's opinions and feelings on this. I am reluctant to post this in fear of starting anything, but I will. I'm just trying nothing more than to take a gentle and non-aggressive approach. I care very much about people like us who have to deal with ignorance and I hate the fact it exist but there's not much we can do except try and educate people about it. Honestly, we shouldn't have to put up with anything less than acceptance and understanding but the reality is we do.

I'm not taking sides if anyone thinks I am, I'm just explaining my view on how I think we can best handle this. Yes, what was said was ignorant and offensive but there's nothing we can do to change that but Emma seems willing to understand and that's great. That's so much better than someone who has no compassion and refuses to listen. We should be taking advantage of that to inform her why it was. Anyway, I've really gone off-topic so I won't say anything else unless it's relevant.

Quote from: Cindy on August 21, 2014, 02:19:20 AM
I'm disappointed with the attitudes that have been expressed in this thread and note that the OP has not returned.

Cindy

The one thing I notice here is what Cindy noted: the OP has not returned.

Given the manner in which some of the replies have been worded if I were her I would be afraid to come back.  I keep looking at this thread hoping she would come back, and so far nope.

A lot of good and useful points have been made here as well, and I hope they get a fair hearing.

A sad unique creature...


Erin

If OP apologizes or something, I'll be fine with it- people make mistakes.  I just really didn't like seeing that post, especially here of all places.

So it's unacceptable to be a little harsh in the face of blatant transphobia, but acceptable to be condescending towards our own members?

Isn't seeing how trans people feel honestly about any given question or issue part of the learning process for the rest of society to learn from, and also everyone within the group.?
I thought that the replies answered Emma's questions very well, and with reasonable sensitivity.. Why Emma neglected to reply at any point may have nothing to do with the comments..?
We all hope she returns and chimes in, and we can all talk further. 

The way I see it the OP came here looking for help. She doesn't know the "proper" lingo on the site so she doesn't know what to say to avoid offending someone - she apologized ahead of time for that and explained that she doesn't know. The great majority of people in the world fit this description - being transgender is not a topic that most people know anything about - hence, the reason she's here asking for our help. We are the experts in this area; we live it day to day. We should be willing to help and educate people about us when we get a chance. This was the chance.

Maybe we could show some grace, kindness, and understanding of her situation and try to help her? I thought that what Emmaline posted was excellent.

Quote from: Declan. on August 21, 2014, 10:50:46 AM
So it's unacceptable to be a little harsh in the face of blatant transphobia, but acceptable to be condescending towards our own members?

If you feel my comments were 'having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority' then you are mistaken. I was asking for tolerance from those who are so often not tolerated, I was asking for acceptance from those who are so often not accepted. I was asking for understanding from those who are misunderstood. If that is condescending you mis read my intent and I apologise.

Quote from: OreSama on August 21, 2014, 08:57:35 AM
Honestly, while OP did say she wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings, she failed.  Educating people who don't understand is important, but the post was quite ignorant and offensive.  Especially the "male that looks like a female" part.  I didn't come here to see transphobia, I came here to connect to other trans people.

Exactly. I get that OP probably didn't have negative intentions, but she certainly wasn't sensitive either. In my experience, if you know well enough to preface or conclude with "I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but...," you probably could have avoided hurting feelings altogether if you were more careful with your words. This isn't just an MTF issue, the sentiments expressed in this post could be blatantly triggering for a lot of people. While I don't post much, this is one of the few places I can go where I know I won't run into transphobia, and especially not transphobic apologetics. I think it's possible to provide guidance and answers to someone while pointing out the harm in the rhetoric they choose. Cisgender couples can find support for a variety of issues, including fetishes, just about everywhere else, but safe spaces for trans people are few and far between.

Also, the idea that FTMs can't comment in threads like this, even though it's not even in the MTF section, is troubling. Especially since I've always seen (and welcomed) MTFs comment in FTM-specific threads and section without any issue.

Moments like these really, REALLY, make me miss Nero.  He had amazing insight and would have the right words for this situation.

I have seen people come here and make bull-in-china-shop gross errors in how they expressed themselves.  I have seen members of the community call them on that in a manner that may be considered a little bit harsh.  In many regards their comments were "technically" correct.  And I then have seen (or maybe more correctly not seen) the OP NEVER come back.  Others have been able to overcome the situation, but not many.

I just want to cry.  There is usefull stuff here and the OP may never consider it.


Erin

Quote from: ErinWDK on August 21, 2014, 11:54:52 AM
Moments like these really, REALLY, make me miss Nero.  He had amazing insight and would have the right words for this situation.

I have seen people come here and make bull-in-china-shop gross errors in how they expressed themselves.  I have seen members of the community call them on that in a manner that may be considered a little bit harsh.  In many regards their comments were "technically" correct.  And I then have seen (or maybe more correctly not seen) the OP NEVER come back.  Others have been able to overcome the situation, but not many.

I just want to cry.  There is usefull stuff here and the OP may never consider it.


Erin

I would rather preserve one of the few safe spaces we have instead of putting up with transphobia for the sake of educating someone who is not in a position to actually need support from transgender people. She doesn't have a transgender significant other, or a transgender family member or child, or a transgender friend, at least from what I can tell from her post. Her husband has a fetish, and she believes transgender women are men. She will understand that is not the case from reading the replies here, whether they're harsh or not.

Quote from: Klaus on August 21, 2014, 11:53:52 AM
Exactly. I get that OP probably didn't have negative intentions, but she certainly wasn't sensitive either. In my experience, if you know well enough to preface or conclude with "I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but...," you probably could have avoided hurting feelings altogether if you were more careful with your words. This isn't just an MTF issue, the sentiments expressed in this post could be blatantly triggering for a lot of people. While I don't post much, this is one of the few places I can go where I know I won't run into transphobia, and especially not transphobic apologetics. I think it's possible to provide guidance and answers to someone while pointing out the harm in the rhetoric they choose. Cisgender couples can find support for a variety of issues, including fetishes, just about everywhere else, but safe spaces for trans people are few and far between.

I see your point here, Klaus, and do not disagree. I believe that the point others have been trying to raise, is that because of her lack of understanding of our universe, we should be a little more lenient and try to guide her to knowledge while in the process of offering her some useful advice. Honestly, I don't like being objectified either, but having endured hostility for an accident of birth for all of my living memory, I have learned that sometimes you can reach someone and win a friend. Please understand, this is not a criticism of you or anyone else.

Quote
Also, the idea that FTMs can't comment in threads like this, even though it's not even in the MTF section, is troubling. Especially since I've always seen (and welcomed) MTFs comment in FTM-specific threads and section without any issue.

On the same page here, bro. I don't think any specific blanket statements were made or intended. Sorry if you got that impression. We are, after all, family.

((((group hug))))
-ellie