Forgive me if this topic has come up before or if it has any resemblance to Kate Bornstein's theories, but why should gender truly matter?  To me it feels like gender is more or less like the comparison between race and culture.  Race is genetic but culture is how such people act, and of which truly makes the distinction between people.  Gender is similar as well.

IMO, I feel it annoying that we born forced into whatever gender corresponds with our biological sex.  It seems that people want things always to be easy to identify, and IMO the only real functional reason for strict genders is to be able to easily identify the opposite sex for mating (especially for males afraid to get attracted to other males.)

Why should we HAVE to be limited into acting a certain manner based on our gender?  Actually, women have much more freedom than men in this (thanks to the womens liberation movement), which is partly why I'd consider transitioning.  I've felt repressed throughout my life by the male gender.  I can't quite say all the time that I'd want to transition, but even then if I did transition, sometimes I may feel like doing more masculine things, as other times I'd like to do very feminine things and wear and look very femininely.  At least in that context I'd have much more freedom in expressing myself.

And maybe, even then there are many straight guys out there that would like to do some things considered prohibitively female (or risk being percieved as gay).  Only gay men are allowed to break through gender barriers for males in general, and they can only do it comfortably in places like big liberal cities.

Truly, why should gender truly matter, what would be wrong if society was genderless?  After all, gender is socialized (as opposed to sex being biological.)

Quote from: Katelyn on September 23, 2007, 03:18:47 AM
After all, gender is socialized (as opposed to sex being biological.)

i concord with you here, yet many will contest this pov.  you'll see why as this thread is read by more people

Quote from: Katelyn on September 23, 2007, 03:18:47 AMAfter all, gender is socialized (as opposed to sex being biological.)

Sex is biological, determined by the genitals. Gender is biological, determined by the brain. Gender roles are socialized.

Quote from: Annie Social on September 23, 2007, 06:03:20 AM
Gender is biological, determined by the brain.

Your opinion, I presume since there isn't anything conclusive in the medical literature that says so.  I wish there were though; that'd be the end of so much bigotry and lack of understanding.

Quote from: Fer on September 23, 2007, 06:08:40 AM
Your opinion, I presume since there isn't anything conclusive in the medical literature that says so.  I wish there were though; that'd be the end of so much bigotry and lack of understanding.

Conclusive, no. Compelling, yes:
http://www.symposion.com/ijt/ijtc0106.htm                                               
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9B0DE3DA1639F931A35752C1A963958260

Quote from: Fer on September 23, 2007, 06:08:40 AM

Quote from: Annie Social on September 23, 2007, 06:03:20 AM
Gender is biological, determined by the brain.

Your opinion, I presume since there isn't anything conclusive in the medical literature that says so.  I wish there were though; that'd be the end of so much bigotry and lack of understanding.

I don't know if anything would put an end to bigotry and lack of understanding it may reduce it but I don't think it would end it. look at darker skinned americans ( I dislike the term african american because most darker skinned americans I have known have never been to africa and it seems to me that this term is just the newest way to segrigate the population!) there is no doubt that the color of someone is due to thier birth and not choice and there is still racial bigotry. unfortunatly the only thing I think that is going to get rid of bigotry is time and probably lots of it! but I do agree something conclusive would probably help!

Quote from: Annie Social on September 23, 2007, 06:03:20 AM

Quote from: Katelyn on September 23, 2007, 03:18:47 AMAfter all, gender is socialized (as opposed to sex being biological.)

Sex is biological, determined by the genitals. Gender is biological, determined by the brain. Gender roles are socialized.

Anybody heard of the Israeli kibbutz? It was (and is) a pure form of a commune. One of the aspects important to this discussion is that many kibbutz attempted to make the division of work in the commune genderless, with women fixing tractors and men rearing children.  And the children were raised as gender-free as the commune possibly could.

Guess what?  Despite such noble goals, women naturally gravitated to cooking/cleaning/childrearing jobs, while men naturally gravitated towards the hunter/gatherer stuff of fixing tractors, plowing and tending fields, building things, etc.

And the children, thrown together without respect to gender and dressed in unisex outfits, sorted themselves out into gender groups and started showing preferences for traditionally male- or traditionally female-style apparel and toys.

So much for social-engineering the gender differences away.

The book "Brain Sex" is a good read.  It's well-footnoted and referenced.  Some people don't like the conclusions it draws, though, that male and female brains ARE different in ways that can be uncovered by rigorously-designed studies.

Another good read is "The Blank Slate," by Steven Pinker.  As well as gender differences, he illuminates many other tendencies and biases we are hard-wired with from conception, through the genes we receive from our parents.  One of his conclusions is that we are born with a tendency towards altruism, or bigotry, or religious fervor, etc., and that the environments we find ourselves in or are drawn to (by those tendencies) can cause the tendencies to flourish.

Gender is a difference that should not make a difference -- not in the way that led Katelyn to ask the question in this topic.  But, the fact is, for many individuals in the world today, gender makes a helluva difference that matters to them.  And we have to deal with them, don't we?

Karen

If gender did not matter would it still be such a struggle being transgendered?  I think it still would. Our internal gender is vastly important to who we are I don't think there is any escaping it.

I personally want my gender to matter as it helps define me and my place in society, though ironically there is no real place in my society for androgynes  .