I'm doing this. It's only a matter of when, and I see it being 'at most' about 8 months or so away. Ideally, only 3 months

Pre-op voice sample (super relaxed, literally zero larynx/prosody effort): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0ucWtmLVQOq
Hz = ~140-150

In elevated speaking I'm able to average as high as the 180's, with some pitches occasionally spiking to 300, but it is effortful and does not hold up to extended use. The same thickness of vocal color that serves my voice in the lower register places a lot of limits on using the upper effectively.

Some may wonder, "Your voice passes perfectly, why are you doing this?" It's because speaking in a monotone like this is the only way that my voice passes well. It's nice for hushed, sultry narration or a chat over a cup of tea, but leaves a lot to be desired for expressing excitement, sounding cheerful, conversing at louder than a low-medium volume, yelling, and basically sounding like I'm LIVING. The ways my voice limits me in this regard and affects others if I use it poorly are matters of which I'm very aware.

I had sworn off voice surgery years ago (unconvinced by inferior speech samples), but not being able to use my voice to its fullest is the only thing after 7+ years of transition that still really bites me daily. The practice of Dr. Kim really seems to be one giant leap for our kind.

I'll make this my lair of updates!

Wow, I find that voice great. Maybe you should put in an example of where you think your limitations are in the voice that make you do this. Your pitch range there is similar to mine in a relaxed state (although I will usually drop down to 120 Hz for some words), you probably also have somehow switched your larynx position permanently so that your voice never sounds totally male anymore no matter what. Which is good - it is rather monotonous, you are right - an isue I have as well all the time. I am just not really sure how VFS would change that - you can also be monotonous at 180 Hz or more - don't you think it is more a matter of the way you use your voice and to yllow you to express yourself freely than of vocal chord length? For me some issues about the pitch range / melody are: I am a bit afraid of letting it flow up there because I think it may sound odd, it may break, it may sound exaggerated - and I had severe issues with ten sioning up in the uipper range, giving me throat pain. So I think these are things why I am a bit stuck in a more monotonous voice. I dont have the expectationt hat VFS would change that though except maybe that it can take away some of that fear of sounding male when I do something odd with the voice - still, the voice can still break or hit bad notes, I even had the impression that for some women here (Abby for example, one of the first here who had VFS with Dr Kim), the monotony is what taints the post operative voice a bit and they basically had to get rid of it afterwards with training.
I dont want to discourage you now, but I am myself careful to consider what expectations can VFS fulfil and which are jsut that - expectations.

Voice reply to the thread: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1H5FvR8SjcT

For reference, here is my ~180hz recording, which requires much effort: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1hME1DTIfW2

Based on statistics, Yeson would let me sound 20hz higher than my effortful voice, but with my voice relaxed

(If vocaroo borks the files or something just let me know)

Haha - I wanted to record a voice reply but it sound so badly. Its 1 am here now. I will give it to you anyways, so you can see how bad my voice is now - I guess I would be totall happy if I would get your pre op voice with some magic - So here is me babbling a bit about the topics of your last recording. I kind of have this bad accent and cannot find words at times beacuse i am not english speaking normally. http://vocaroo.com/i/s1UCwMuQQGAh (I am not sure this was a good decision to upload this. When I hear it I feel like this is no not me...)

Haha great going voice to voice I promise it's getting quite late by my own current schedule, too.

First thank you for your nice words! Your voice reminds me a lot of the Oracle from The Matrix, by the way - very similar inflections and pitch style. You're definitely using it well. Silly as it may sound, I think having a nice accent as you do works quite a bit in your favor!

To answer some questions you had:

1) About your idea that my larynx permanently shifted as I learned to speak this way, what I meant by really relaxed larynx is I'm using my voice in the lowest voice I have without 'forcing' it too low or guttural. I would say that I think you're hearing more of my soft palate / pharynx adjustments for resonance, but actually I kind of think it's that plus just a way of 'activating' less of my vocal folds with phonation to produce a thinner sound. In either case it's definitely a technique that has found a happy home.

In common speech I usually raise the larynx up at least a little bit to compensate, and this leads into your point about my 180hz being my 'target' everyday voice. To the extent that I can, it is. The higher pitches just... feel right, for the sound of a voice coming from me. That's something Yeson will hopefully allow me to comfortably unlearn as I adjust to my target pitches being as easily in reach as my relaxed Rainbow example.

2) The challenge with the low voice is its limited applications, and that I have to shift for other functions. I can manage usually, but it does take up so much of my focus - often only to feel fake. The low voice on its own does not have much volume beyond what I demonstrated - I have to add overtones for that, the kind I usually stop to make it more feminine. So just in terms of proximity and volume it doesn't fit unless I'm speaking one-to-one with someone or talking into a microphone.

3) I'm waiting to hear back from the folks at Yeson about the voice break, which I assume every girl who's been there has had this matter to contend with ~ masculine voice breaks are usually in the E4-G4 range, so the answer and solution can't be too complicated, no? I'm under the impression from reading other Yeson threads that post-surgery issues come from the musculature activating the vocal folds being used to thick, long vocal folds, and vocal tract length. This actually is something I'd like more information about, but also, my cynical nature can't help but assume because the voice is a sensitive thing to control, requiring good instincts and/or training, that a lot of people have just never known what the hell they're doing and I shouldn't necessarily take everyone's 4-12 week or so self-reported observations as a case study.

4) About working the low-pitch female voice, I wonder if Dr. Kim could perhaps in the future devise a technique that primarily affects timbre rather than pitch? Unsure if that's possible just from modifying vocal folds, ofc. But yes that is what it's about, whether you feel a sense of freedom from your voice or whether it puts a cap on your interactions.

And high-five about being a super-critical person. I could make a meme of your "I'm really not sure" comments to Yeson threads but the world is so filled with lies that each of us must seek truth carefully.

Hi
Hehehe - I think the "Oracle" sounds a lot better, but thanks for comparing me to it, she is sweet. I guess better to be compared with an old lady than with a guy. at least in terms of stature we may have something in common

Ok, I am not totally sure what all changes with the resonance control, But I think for me, the larynx position is part of it. It is not the way to shift it for pitch though. In any case, guess you have gotten used to changing some things in the voice that also happen in your very relaxed voice. If that really is your base pitch, you will be way into the female range after the surgery - beyond your 180 Hz target.Which I totally understand. A 180 Hz - thats something that would be fine for me too. If I manage to get it on average, my lowest parts still are at 130-140 Hz, which bugs me a lot , especially sind when I am tired, like yesterday, my voice becomes even more monotonous and hovers more at the lower end.
You heard it probably in the recording plus the issue I have with my resonance still being off - no surgery can fix those.
Its a bit hard now as I had to reactivate all my vocal folds and thus my full timbre because I had some odd technique before that prevented about a third of the vocal folds to phonate when speaking (I jokingly said I simulated a VFS), but that caused tension and strain eventually, so I now am unlearning it.

My speech volume is never really good, sadly. If I am trying to be loud, the pitch goes up a lot, I am not sure if it sounds good then anymore. I definitely am squeezing then again.

I will be interested to hear what Dr Kim says about the voice break. I know that some things he says are a bit odd, like I heard some people were given the advice to not do any larynx shifting for resonance anymore - but I also think that those women here who do use resonance control a lot are having the better post op voices than those who really totally let it go.

I personally like yout 140-150 Hz recording as it has that clearly and unmistakably female sound to it. I can understand that a shift up in pitch with the same quality would be neat, but I think you can use your voice very freely as it is and probably experiment with it a lot. Part of my voice rehab was for example to use the voice in a way that does not break at that break. That was a really neat thing to learn although I cannot 100% trust it yet.

And I am so sorry about being so supercritical. It is my nature as a scientist probably - plus my bad experience with surgeries before this one.

I was so frustrated about my voice in that recording yesterday, I cannot tell you how much. It gave me the realization again that there are still a lot of things to do to recover from my mistakes of th epast years and then improve my voice. What I really would need to know is if a  surgery makes my voice better or worse in some aspects (fullness, volume, pitch ar all affected) and if it makes it harder or easier to get the other things better (relaxation, resonance, inflection,...). Dr Kim kind of warned me that with my voice issues he probably cannot feminize my voice completely and that my recovery would be longer than usual, which totally increased me being worried... (not a good thing to say to someone ubercritical like me )

Bye

I do hear your voice losing resonance at times, but most of the time the resonance is actually pretty decent.

The point about vocal damage from over-feminizing the voice through control alone is definitely worth making - even if one can make a satisfactory voice with effort, and isn't bothered by having to concentrate in order to use it well, too much strain/effort could easily lead to what I'd imagine as a multitude of potential vocal problems even beyond those of which you and I are aware. In this case Yeson could also be a wise decision for anyone who has to use notable effort to get a feminine voice, even if it's one they're perfectly happy with, simply to avoid the vocal problems that could inevitably form after years/decades of essentially abusing the vocal anatomy.

I'm adding another recording below: last night I endured quite a bit of discomfort, sinus pain, throat covered in thick, vile mucilage, etc. Couldn't even sip water & could barely sleep for like 12 hours. Far from a good time. But the point is since these are definitely not 'ideal' conditions, what better time to show what my voice is like in a mildly compromised state? I've been saying quite a bit that my voice is good under ideal conditions but poor as soon as some bad variables are added, well here you go:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0ikM0sJVWy9

Ok I will hear it in a moment. Just before I do - if the voice is compromised, I do not give to omuch on that. I know plenty of women who have really bad voices if they are compromised and then they even get sirred on the phone for that, but no one is worried as it is just a temporary and explainable hickup. I told a few people at work that my voice has suffered voice damage and so now it seems to be a good explanation if someone says something odd
I am trying now to really stick to a relaxed voice and not try to feminize it too much with pitch increase by using effort. I am done doing that. I rather try to concentrate more on the sound of it and if I feel comfortable enough to slightly raise pitch, I will do so. Other than that I have it in the back of my mind that if my voice is good in the other aspects, pitch can always be dealt with surgery if I want.

What do you mean by me "loosing resonance" - in what direction - resonance going away, making my voice thin or resonance drifting into a more male sound? I know my voice is not good, it sounds male to some, androgynous to others, female to others still - if it goes together with my name or my appearance, usually nothing really bad happens at the moment - at least not more than once every 2-3 months...

Understand that by compromised I mean anything that either 1) physiologically affects my vocal folds, or 2) reduces my ability to concentrate on making my voice sound good (mood, multitasking, social anxiety, etc.) So in other words, there are actually a lot of situations where my speaking is compromised beyond illness. Making a voice recording at home where I'm not being distracted by anything is among the ->-bleeped-<-tiest ways to demonstrate this, really.

I did not hear your resonance slip often or for more than a second or two at a time: you seem to be aware and adjust as soon as you notice anything. For me, the low pitch just isn't something I can fall back upon. I decline to share pictures of myself here, but my appearance/presentation is quite incongruous with what my voice may suggest (without pitch feminization) so it stands out when not pitch-feminized; but when I can use the technique that gets me up to 180hz, it matches me fine and people almost always respond amicably. I get very different reactions from people if I cannot - whether that's being clocked, doubted, or just treated like I'm probably an addict or something.

Also I think the explanation of 'vocal damage' is plenty sufficient. People usually are clueless about the voice and its abnormalities; they understand that vocal disorders exist, but not what they are or how to differentiate them, especially not being able to look down your throat themselves. As far as they know it literally could be anything: tremor, polyp, paralysis, I mean, whatever you care to call it, they'll accept it as a fact beyond their understanding.

I still need to find a headset to play the recording
Ok, so yes , i understand that part about the voice being compromised. for me that usually is at work when discussing stuff with the boss, or on the other hand relaxed situations where I drop my voice to relaxation more easily.

Ok, so you mean the parts where I get that buzzing sound into my voice as "resonance slip"? Yes, I am aware of that. I try to conquer it by doing voice exercises and reading a lot of words with vowels at the beginning and watch not to buzz

i understand that you do not want to share pictures. I dont put pictures out in the open here as well. i am told my deep voice matches me though in a way, as I am rather big , although not tall - still to me in my mind I feel like a higher pitch would match my feeling or what my brain may expect more easily.

Here's a new sample of my voice. I think this one shows the voice's inherent thickness and low range a little more clearly.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1DVzy5DrVEd

Praat brings it in at 145hz, but not using resonance I think clocks it :3

I think you just cannot do anything that clocks it - I think if you would really insist on it, people could believe it is a male voice, but I doubt that this would ever be clocked. You have resonance and sound and infelection so well down, that I am envious now. If I speak at 145 Hz it sounds far from that.
But yes - I totally understand if you want to have 180 Hz, that is quite a bit from that - not a whole lot but a bit. Considering my basic tone is A2 or 110 Hz, that is even farther - I think you will probably only need a 1/4 suture with two threads like Amy did because your voice is already so good.

Awwwww thanks I've done everything that I can besides Yeson to make this voice as good as possible.

If I listen to old audio recordings of myself speaking (~10 years ago) they are definitely not passable - lacking the subtle ways of speaking that, even if I try to minimize them now for the sake of showing my "raw" voice, there's just no way to bypass because I'm so used to speaking properly! Also it turns out my 'high voice' recording was close to 190hz, and my 'original' low voice recording actually 150hz (had some settings slightly off in Praat.)

It sounds so... teenage boy to me. I can imagine it being heard differently, but yes ~ give me good female pitch & basic timbre and I will totally master it! <3

Yes. You really did some things to the voice that makes it really well. I have to learn this

I was singing today. I managed to sing along at a higher pitch, probably not hitting the notes, but that was not so important in that group around the campfire, but it was quite a strain. When I relaxed I only wanted to sing very low volume as it was so deep. It annoed me. It never was as deep in any singing as I would talk if I am relaxed, but still - I would hope that if singing works out well after this surgery, it would be easier to just sing along at that higher pitch. It is otherwise embarrassing when the guitar guy says "and now only the women" and I stop singing immediately (Which I did today even though I think I could have done it)

I actually had a situation today that made me acutely aware of my voice's limitations - singing in chest register, I have way too thick of a sound. And because I have a low speaking voice, people assume my singing tessitura is low. NOT so!

Anyway it sucks for singing in a group, since 1) altos are generally needed more than sopranos, and 2) good altos are rare. So even though I can sight-read hard material, I end up having to sit there looking frazzled for awhile (I was, but over the voice, not the music) just so I don't have to sing.

The bottom of my singing register is 220hz. Next time I'm asked to sing anything lower I will just say no and let the pieces fall. One of my pivotal pre-transition events was utter hatred of being forced into a choir on tenor part.

If you have never heard of counter-tenor go look up some David Daniels etc. Frankly, though, I feel most counter-tenors sound silly compared to the natural sound I learned to obtain by necessity.

I just heard back!

Dr. Kim notes my reading voice pattern to be moderately unstable: pitch instability, and a breathy voice with too much air escaping. Apparently it's the act of defying the way the voice wants to sound on its own that induces voice tremor - that going from chest voice to falsetto makes the voice break more pronounced. They assume the voice break will continue after VFS, but that with botox + if I adapt to my new vocal folds, the voice break is believed to improve.

This really seems to support the notion that it's our voice box musculature being used to working with thick, long vocal folds which causes tremor, and that it's not necessarily something innate or permanent. If this is the case, I feel a lot better about having VFS done, as the vocal break matter is one of the last things I've been concerned about. Truth be told, I actually 'can' cross that break, but because my voice is so breathy, there's a super-fine line between clocking the break and using not enough air to induce vibration. And that's almost certainly due to my voice feminization techniques.

As for the simple presence of tremor, I can reflect that in my first year or two post-transition, I had a good friend (choral expert) who noted one of my strengths was perfectly steady, straight-tone singing. The tremor / instability Dr. Kim notes in my voice are consistent with changes I've noticed myself in recent years especially.

Update!

VFS Surgery with Dr. Kim booked for mid-December, as long as ebola doesn't turns into a pandemic within the next few weeks (unlikely, just monitoring.)

It's the best time for me to have this done, since I'll have a full 3.5 weeks off without having to speak a word Only having to be on limited vocal use in work/school for 1-2 months beyond that will help a lot.

Has anyone else had the post-op eval like 5 days after surgery? That's what their itinerary shows and it sounds quite early. I might ask them about it if nobody here has had such a quick turnaround.

Oh, so you can fly home less than a week post op? Dont scare me about the ebola. I cannot do any travels until February...

I'm not on the train of the fear-frenzy that the US media has been cooking up these past couple weeks, which really just boils down to a multitude of deficiencies in our health system.

Eh if they say I'm fine to have my post-op and fly home at that point (the day after, most likely, just to be safe) then I take it they're not just doing so erroneously or randomly, but I'll be sure to check.

Sure - saves money to not have to pay for more hotel days