So a few days ago on the "transgender support" page on facebook a young trans girl, guessing a teenager, came in and started ranting about how ugly and manlike trans women on the page are. It astounded me how much transphobia this girl has towards her own community. It's an online support group where we are trying to find support and some happiness in our lives. I find that there are some people obsessed with passing, whole sites that tell us passing and going stealth is the key to happiness in our lives. It's frustrating to see such views that some hold. What is most important is that we are happy with ourselves inside and out, it just hurts to see that some people have such views about their own community.

Quote from: Riley Skye on September 17, 2014, 12:37:39 PM
So a few days ago on the "transgender support" page on facebook a young trans girl, guessing a teenager, came in and started ranting about how ugly and manlike trans women on the page are. It astounded me how much transphobia this girl has towards her own community. It's an online support group where we are trying to find support and some happiness in our lives. I find that there are some people obsessed with passing, whole sites that tell us passing and going stealth is the key to happiness in our lives. It's frustrating to see such views that some hold. What is most important is that we are happy with ourselves inside and out, it just hurts to see that some people have such views about their own community.

I've come across similar sentiments from members of this site as well. I think there are a lot of people who assume other people have the same priorities they do.

I'm especially resistant to using the words "ugly" and "manlike" together. I know many women, both cis and trans, who have features that might be called manlike but who are very beautiful.

Such is pretty common still unfortunately. It isn't only online either a lot of people have the nerve to try and tear down others in day to day lives. But on this case to go through the trouble to actually do this shows that the person that did this is either very ignorant or trying to express anger about their own personal problems by showing people their problems.

Which if it was the second one then why go to a support group? That's like going to a AA meeting and bringing up their problem (and the person that walks in doesn't drink). I honestly hate transphobia I deal with it a lot myself due to the area I'm in. So the fact that she did that is kind of sad. I hope that she was shut down quickly before she could hurt others.  (Also sorry for ranting a bit lol)

And on the passing thing the only reason I would ever want it is due to I hate being treated as a guy and hearing male pronouns. I'm already secure about knowing what I am. Although I know some are not and I understand the pain. But there are some that endure much more than I do and I wish I could help them. I believe acceptance to be one of the hardest stages.

I do think we have to be realistic about our transitions. And though someone may not pass well they deserve to be and can very well find happiness. I believe it is the transphobia that so many of us held comes out when we are transitioning.

Interesting. I had the reverse experience back in 1999. I was at a support group and were told to shut up and stop complaining about my problems because I suerely would have none that are as severe as the one of the others, because I was young and "passed" well. I thought at times that some of the people there had it hard and I felt sorry for them as they had probably little chance of really "passing", but I think I was not arrogant. I knew it was not their fault or anything. I would have liked to suggest to some of them to do some things differently to improve their normalness (less colorful makeup. no Miniskirts and Heels as everyday fashion unless they look good in them), but they did not want to hear from someone who does not have the same problems as they do.
I guess the times are different now and the young people are getting arrogant.

I've had to go through a massive reassessment of my attitude over the past year. Being judgemental is a human trait, sometimes useful but often self serving and founded in arrogance - it is never constructive when the latter and I would dish it out in spades (fortunately never aloud, just in my head). The way I see it, with that person you mention and others with the same mindset as her, is that they cannot see that another trans person is someone who identifies as a particular gender but who has been born into a body with the wrong sexual characteristics. Rather than feeling empathy for that person they focus on the physical characteristics the person has and gets all judgemental about it. "You look like a man, you can't be a woman" and other such appalling nonsense - it is a variation of the "you're a 'man' you can't be a woman" argument that cis normative society spews.

Sometimes I feel like I might be a catty b----. I get these kind of thoughts at times about some trans people, and then I get to know them and feel so guilty and upset at myself. I think the thought process for most like that is that the "dream" is to be passable and beautiful, and then to see someone who doesn't fit the image of what they see as an ideal transition they lash out. I think it's just continued denial like, "I may be trans, but I'm not like that." It's terrible to think like that, but I find myself far more accepting of others as I become more accepting of myself for who I am.

It is truly sad that there are people in our community like this.   We all got dealt a pretty crappy hand, and we must all play the one we were dealt the best we can.   It is too bad that someone who got that lucky on the outside is so rotten inside. 

I'm living my life the way I want to now and am the happiest I have ever been.  I don't really care how "manly" I look to others, whether or not I "pass" nor if I can live "stealth".   I am moving forward and being true to myself, and that's all that matters. 

It seems somebody missed the point of transition entirely.

Quote from: paula lesley on September 17, 2014, 02:38:14 PM
It is just an age thing. The young do not wish to be old and the old just wish 

Why is it that youth seems to be entirely wasted upon the young?   Perspective...

Quote from: Jill F on September 17, 2014, 02:49:59 PM
Why is it that youth seems to be entirely wasted upon the young?   Perspective...

Because we don't have wisdom and are really angsty.

I also believe the whole situation come from societies transphobie. I believe these people believe that beauty is the key to life and can't imagine being non-passable.

Quote from: Jill F on September 17, 2014, 02:49:59 PM
Why is it that youth seems to be entirely wasted upon the young?   Perspective...

well. if I have an eternal soul I'm either too young or too old you just can't win

Quote from: Riley Skye on September 17, 2014, 02:53:11 PM
Because we don't have wisdom and are really angsty.

I also believe the whole situation come from societies transphobie. I believe these people believe that beauty is the key to life and can't imagine being non-passable.

I have encountered plenty of transwomen who couldn't pass to save their lives, but were content nonetheless.  It's still a massive improvement as far as quality of life goes.

Quote from: paula lesley on September 17, 2014, 02:38:14 PM
It is just an age thing. The young do not wish to be old and the old just wish 

Well, being ugly and old, the only thing I wish for is for the youngins to mind their p's and q's....

I totally understand this; I stopped all involvement with a local trans support group because of the leader doubling-down on this. She directly misgendered trans women whom she felt were not "trying hard enough" to be feminine and, when I called her on it, defended doing so.

Quote from: Agent_J on September 17, 2014, 03:05:30 PM
I totally understand this; I stopped all involvement with a local trans support group because of the leader doubling-down on this. She directly misgendered trans women whom she felt were not "trying hard enough" to be feminine and, when I called her on it, defended doing so.

WTF?  That's "support"!?  Some of us are very fragile, if not already completely broken.  Could she live with herself if she ever sent someone over the edge?

Quote from: Agent_J on September 17, 2014, 03:05:30 PM
I totally understand this; I stopped all involvement with a local trans support group because of the leader doubling-down on this. She directly misgendered trans women whom she felt were not "trying hard enough" to be feminine and, when I called her on it, defended doing so.

Yikes, I think I would have told her what to do with that "support" in short order. 


The trans group I tried out mostly just seemed to want to talk about sex, which really doesn't interest me, so I quit messing with it. Plus the snacks were just too vegetarian for me...

Do you know what's amusing here? Really really amusing and funny?

I suggest anyone really fixated about passing go to a busy mall, sit down, and just watch. Watch the women going by. And not just the young women. Look at the middle aged women. Look at the older women.

If you're honest with yourself, you see a lot of middle aged and older women who look a bit more masculine. And because of this, an older transwoman can actually pass more readily than a younger one.

Now, to be honest, there's a lot to be said for personal presentation.

Here's a photo of me from just the other night, out with my daughter. I was not misgendered once. Nobody stared. Nobody even gave us a second glance. But I wasn't wearing a hot pink miniskirt, bright pink lipstick, or had size DDDDD breast forms either (just my natural A cups).



But a middle aged to late middle aged transwoman has tons more leeway than younger transwomen, who are being directly compared to fresh young vixens at the top of their biological game. Now some of our younger sisters pull this off in spades. There are some amazingly beautiful younger transwomen. But those who don't feel they belong on the Miss Universe stage need to give themselves a break too.

So just stop with the worries and go sit down in a busy shopping mall and watch. Watch all the shapes and sizes, all the women who've got the entire package and all those who don't. And just realize that you fit on that same spectrum and it's ok.

Quote from: LizMarie on September 17, 2014, 03:23:34 PM
Do you know what's amusing here? Really really amusing and funny?

I suggest anyone really fixated about passing go to a busy mall, sit down, and just watch. Watch the women going by. And not just the young women. Look at the middle aged women. Look at the older women.

If you're honest with yourself, you see a lot of middle aged and older women who look a bit more masculine. And because of this, an older transwoman can actually pass more readily than a younger one.

Now, to be honest, there's a lot to be said for personal presentation.

Here's a photo of me from just the other night, out with my daughter. I was not misgendered once. Nobody stared. Nobody even gave us a second glance. But I wasn't wearing a hot pink miniskirt, bright pink lipstick, or had size DDDDD breast forms either (just my natural A cups).



But a middle aged to late middle aged transwoman has tons more leeway than younger transwomen, who are being directly compared to fresh young vixens at the top of their biological game. Now some of our younger sisters pull this off in spades. There are some amazingly beautiful younger transwomen. But those who don't feel they belong on the Miss Universe stage need to give themselves a break too.

So just stop with the worries and go sit down in a busy shopping mall and watch. Watch all the shapes and sizes, all the women who've got the entire package and all those who don't. And just realize that you fit on that same spectrum and it's ok.

so, where are you?

That was exactly it for me. It was why I rejected the entire "you need to be wearing skirts and dresses every day" business - 99% of the women around me don't meet that stricture so why should I?

Quote from: Agent_J on September 17, 2014, 03:47:55 PM
That was exactly it for me. It was why I rejected the entire "you need to be wearing skirts and dresses every day" business - 99% of the women around me don't meet that stricture so why should I?

My cis wife almost never wears skirts or dresses.