After spending a couple of years questioning my gender and moving between several labels, I realized that androgyne probably fits me best. I decided to experiment with an M2A transition on low dose Estrogen.

The experiment was wonderful in it's emotional/mental benefits, but there concerns on the physical level. I experienced mild pain/ discomfort in the legs, arms, shoulders, etc. I could not really figure out if it was along a vein or just diffused muscular cramps. It felt like both at different times. Today morning I also woke up with throbbing and sweating.

I have stopped E for now. I will be doing further tests and will also seek out an endo with experience in cross hormone (along with low dose) treatment.

There are several threads on the mental/emotional/body change aspects of hormones, but not much on various things which discomforted people in their journeys. Maybe the lack of threads are for a good reason - not to confuse people when they need to take medical help.

I wanted to open a thread where we could document such experiences, but if other members feel that such a thread might do more harm than good, then I will delete it.

Hi Dreameragi,

Your topic sounds like a fine idea to me.. I've been curious of the effects you speak of too, so I would be also interested in any perspectives..

I must admit being attracted to the mental and emotional benefits that some speak of, but the physical aspect of it scrares me, and I doubt I will be able to accept that part.?

It will be intersting to hear others views, I hope they will speak on it...

knowing the risks is important. transition isn't something that is too easily available, and that is for a reason. going into hrt or getting surgery done on one's body are things which should only be done after knowing of the risks and dangers. trying to transition at all, should only be done after corefully considering the possibility that medical treatment might fail. i'm thinking about how hard the crash will be if one is riding too high when disaster strikes, like complications that makes hrt for one person unethical because it would kill themand not even slowly.

Quote from: Mark3 on September 21, 2014, 08:01:28 AM
Your topic sounds like a fine idea to me.. I've been curious of the effects you speak of too, so I would be also interested in any perspectives..

I must admit being attracted to the mental and emotional benefits that some speak of, but the physical aspect of it scrares me, and I doubt I will be able to accept that part.?

Yes the mental benefits are huge, at least most of the time, but on the physical side it may or may not be a cake walk. I often browse various forums on the Internet, and even though everyone warns about the risks of HRT and the importance of doing it under proper guidance, if you read most success stories, it is very easy to downplay the risks in our mind.

There are a few places where people have documented the hazards, but I really want to start a thread where people who have been through any experience can document whatever small/big issue they faced.

Hopefully it will prevent others from hitting the panic button, as well as prevent people from thinking that HRT could potentially be a cake walk.

I too hope people come forward and write ...

Good call on stopping the self-medication and seeking professional advice.

To give you some perspective on low-dose, I'm on a seriously low dose and the physical changes are well beyond merely becoming androgynous. We're talking decent breast growth and facial changes, far beyond what I expected such a low dose to foment. I was led to believe that such a low dose would have mental benefits only (which it did - huge mental benefits - but plenty of physical changes too.) I'm very happy with the physical changes because I'm transitioning fully from male to female, but for someone seeking a more androgynous appearance, they may be too much. Taking any amount of estrogen will start the transition process, and it's not necessarily the case that low dose = slight changes or partial changes. You may find that the changes will eventually be as dramatic as those expected with a full MtF transition, but just take longer to achieve.

A good endo will be invaluable in finding a perfect balance of medication that suits where you want to end up.

i haven't tried hrt yet. it's something i will try when i find a way to do it where i've at least got medical professionals monitoring stuff. i'll even want a therapist just to handle any mental problems that i'm aware might arise. hrt isn't the right answer for everyone, some for physical reasons, for others because they don't like the mental changes. non-binary really is a diverse group, and one can't expect that the same treatment will work for everyone.

only risks i've heard personal stories of yet, are blood clots, which can be deadly if they end up in the wrong places.

See my thread in my sig for my experience.

TL;DR?

Worked great for the mind.  But now I have boobies, a butt, and look pretty andro.
The changes have been more marked than expected, not unwelcome, but a dangerous tightrope as I don't want to transition.

I was on a low dose for a couple of months before I started officially and it definitely helped my mental state. In fact the point I realised that I absolutely had to transition was when I came off my low dose to get bloods done before starting properly. It took about 5 days for all the residual E to get out of my system and then I was running on T again and I hated it. I hadn't even realised it had gone, but when it came back i knew I couldn't live like that.

There was a gender specialist in the UK who actually prescribed a small dose of HRT as a means of diagnosing gender dysphoria.

Quote from: luna nyan on September 22, 2014, 07:41:04 AM
See my thread in my sig for my experience.

TL;DR?

Worked great for the mind.  But now I have boobies, a butt, and look pretty andro.
The changes have been more marked than expected, not unwelcome, but a dangerous tightrope as I don't want to transition.

Thanks luna nyan, that was a very useful thread!

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 22, 2014, 11:34:57 AMThere was a gender specialist in the UK who actually prescribed a small dose of HRT as a means of diagnosing gender dysphoria.

This is actually pretty common.  One can only go so far with a therapist, and we can all talk about gender dysphoria 'till we're blue in the face, but the only "cure" is to get the hormones sorted out.  Low dose, trial run; if it makes the patient feel better, then it's a pretty solid confirmation that the patient does indeed suffer from gender dysphoria and the way forward becomes clear.

But not wanting to derail the topic too much, let me put it back on track.  As far as physical discomfort from taking hormones?  None (other than sore nipples...)  No adverse effects whatsoever.  Plenty of benefits though - mental state vastly improved, loving life again, stress doesn't bother me as much as before etc.  Even mild side effects would have been outweighed by the massive mental benefits low dose has provided.

So in balance, I'm firmly in the "wow, this stuff is like a miracle cure" column.

Count me in the E's mental benefits are a miracle cure collumn.

I pretty much confirmed for myself that my issues were GD, now I just need to find a good NB handling gender therapist to handle the details.
(Anyone know any for the Baltimore MD area?  )

My goal is MTA passing as male, though realistically I might be crossdressing Andro to male at some point... 

Since it isn't just my brain greedily gobbling up the E...

There are many MTA people here and elsewhere that can balance it, I hope I can...


- JJ

JJ,

I've managed for 30 months to date and counting.  According to some ppl here who've met me, I come across either as andro, or early ftm.  And that's with me putting zero effort in trying to be femme.

No beard (electro done), shaped brows, longer than average hair for a male,  but for norms who expect to see a male, they see one that looks young for apparent age.

JJ
Much like Luna - when my endo and I thought I was mtf my body reacted.  Of course when I worked out that  I was NB, my breasts became a problem. Bilateral breast reduction followed.  Low, lower, nil, then back to low dose hrt followed with endo guidance.
Physically - fat being redeposited in female patterns; finding weight management a challenge; leg cramps are annoying but quickly fixed if hydration  increases and a balanced diet followed; thinner, more sensitive skin; sensitive nipples; breast soreness; some breast regrowth; shinier,more healthy hair; muscle loss; and told that I look 10-15 years younger than my CIS male peers
Emotionally - this is what is most important for me.  Nil dysphoria; more sensate; greater emotional depth and richness; feeling of authenticity and of being present.  Just feels 'right'.
Even with beard removed, ffs (actually ffs with an andro objective); no body hair; manicured nails (not polished, but buffed);  nuanced or shaped brows; longer hair etc.  I  am still gendered male by size/frame, clothes and voice.  It has been over 3 years but I don't see male fail occurring any time soon.  However folk appear to notice and have commented on how I have changed - more relaxed, look younger and happier, I love your hair etc
Being in my mid 50's no doubt impacts the rate of physical change and ymmv.  So for me all good, all very, very good.
Safe travels
Aisla

Quote from: Aisla on October 03, 2014, 12:43:24 PM
leg cramps are annoying but quickly fixed if hydration  increases and a balanced diet followed;

Aisla thanks for sharing your experience. Is there a rule of the thumb to differentiate between leg cramps and something related to DVT ?

I haven't had any negative effects, but then it is low dose.  I am seeing some overall feminization, but that is welcome.

My relationship with seat-belts and air conditioning will never be the same though.

Also there is this:

Quote
Dear Jade,

For some time now we have been seeing someone else, and our relationship has gotten very complex, but fulfilling!  I hope you can forgive us and understand, but the textiles your shirt are made of are amazing, and I had to let you know...

- Sincerely,
        Your boobs.


PS - I'll keep you informed of this situation, probably about 5 times a second for the next several hours!

- JJ

On low dose my body transitioned anyway. I knew what to expect based on the mtf threads, and my dosage was ramped up very slowliy, the first 7 months being what would be considered andro dosing if estrogen is involved instead of strictly spiro.  I felt like crap on a spiro only regimen, it was horrible.

But I had all the transition information and could predict results, my kids are small breasted, God forbid they ever see this post, but they mostly are, and I followed suit, since my wife is stacked I am sure the kids got my genes.  And so, I am just over an A.  Not much there at all, and I am fiercly protective of the little bit that I do have, at least finally, on high dose, I can fill a small cupped bra.

On the high dose, no crashing now other than the ultimate one on the OD, and a much better feeling, but, the emotions are becoming very female, and Satinjoy is very, very strong physically and mentally now, I feel that transition into a full nonbinary mtf presenting as subtly genderqueer.  I wonder how far it will go, the extenuating circumstances however will limit the presentations as they do now, and probably comfortably.

It is against medical advice to do the surguries or go full time.  Which kicks in the TOS rules here....

Anyway, my experience with both low and high dose are the same physical results.  But emotionally, most assuredly not the same.  And I personally need high dose, and I cannot see myself as able to live without estrogen or go back to T.  It would be torture.

Satinjoy

Quote from: dreameragi on October 04, 2014, 08:37:35 AM
Aisla thanks for sharing your experience. Is there a rule of the thumb to differentiate between leg cramps and something related to DVT ?

dreameragi
A leg cramp is quickly relieved by stretching the muscle against the cramp.  The muscle spasm releases instantaneously.  Something more serious is indicated by a persistent pain which cannot be relieved by stretching or massage.  If in doubt or concerned see your Doctor.
Aisla