The general consensus on the internet seems to be that every trans man on testosterone eventually passes. Yet at the back of my mind I think my hands, feet and skull are too small, it'll always be really obvious. I'm worried I'll start testosterone and still look female, but some weird man woman hybrid.

Yes very irrational, even though my hands,feet and head are big, no one is going to pay attention to that, You gotta work on you right know and take peoples advice on here. You worry to much and when you worry you start to overthink everything.

As my first T shot draws nearer, I'm starting to feel that way too because while most before and after pictures tell me otherwise, I think about all the what ifs. What if my face doesn't change much? Will I be able to build more muscle than I ever could when I start T? What if people can still see traces of me being female?

I don't think it's irrational at all. I've been on T almost a year and I still barely ever pass.

I think it is irrational to prejudge how transition will change you in any way. None of us know before hand how we will respond to HRT, etc. To worry about passing  or not in the future in my opinion is setting you up for failure without making an attempt.

Quote from: ScottyMac on September 27, 2014, 10:17:06 AM
The general consensus on the internet seems to be that every trans man on testosterone eventually passes. Yet at the back of my mind I think my hands, feet and skull are too small, it'll always be really obvious. I'm worried I'll start testosterone and still look female, but some weird man woman hybrid.

I think that's incredibly irrational. If you like at studies, it's indicative to prolonged exposure to hormones will shift bone density and structure. I was linked to one a while ago, but do not have it on hand. However, the studies are out there.

I hate the word "pass" as it implies some sort of deception. I also do NOT think it's the standard for everything. I know trans people who do not try and "pass". That all said I think in most cases guys are read as male when on T for 1-2 years. OTOH, some people may need a little longer in adolescence which can last as long as 6 years.

I am 5'1", have very small hands and a very slight frame. I also dress in a very unambiguiously male way. I am pretty much 99% read as male. You'd maybe think not.

OTOH, I do hear of guys here and there who are not read as male. Must be other factors. There is a voice app that might help some guys called EVA. Because sometimes it's voice.


--Jay

It's not an irrational fear in my opinion, but that doesn't mean it's true.

Never passing could mean a lot more difficult and possible distressing situations, so there is nothing irrational about the fear itself.

But I have yet to meet a man who doesn't pass at all, at the very least they'd read as male.

I'm not too sure, but gotta think positive dude. Fear is ok and normal, I don't know of any trans person who hasn't been scared when transitioning. It is probable that after HRT transmen will pass, that's all you have to go by until you start T. 

-Matt

Quote from: supremecatoverlord on September 27, 2014, 11:57:14 AM
I think that's incredibly irrational. If you like at studies, it's indicative to prolonged exposure to hormones will shift bone density and structure. I was linked to one a while ago, but do not have it on hand. However, the studies are out there.

Fascinating. I'd love to see that if you ever remember what it's called.

I really thought I wouldn't pass for a long time...I was really scared and upset. It took me well over a year to pass at all. But now it really isn't an issue anymore. I don't know if there are people who don't ever pass, but I have heard of numerous people who take several years. It's uncommon though.

I don't think its irrational. Before I started T, I didn't think my voice or anything would pass, that it would take forever for it to drop and with no facial hair, I won't be able to pass. Even now, I'm passing more and more, but in my mind I still see that trace of female or afraid I'm a get that pass fail. I think its normal, until we become comfortable with ourselves. Its a long journey, but worth it.

A common concern, yes. Irrational, yes, as the odds are stacked well against the "never pass" scenario. As birkin mentioned, it takes some guys much longer before they are consistently read as male, but never getting there seems unheard of.

I'm self-conscious about my round skull shape and crap like that too. It's too easy to laser-point focus in on this stuff and blow it out of proportion. I cannot recall ever seeing a person that didn't have a few features that would look at home on a person of the opposite sex. Some guys have big lips, or a small frame, fat around the hips, high voice, etc. Some women have a square enough jawline to cause me envy, or big hands, 6 feet tall, deep voice, and so on. Often several such features are present. Being gendered correctly on sight is a matter of tipping the scale one way or another, not about having 100% stereotypically male or female features.

Yeah I would hestitate to use a word like "irrational". It implies that this is a very odd concern that no one has or that it is 100% unlikely. I think the odds are against it, and the longer you are on T the higher the likelihood of being read 100% male. But irrational, no.

--Jay

Hard to say without seeing a picture, the sad fact about transgenders is that some of us WILL have difficulty being recognised as our real genders.

But the flip side of that is that most of us find our own way to pass. Just remember, there are lots of small, slim, smooth skinned cis males out there that you probably already look more male than!

And remember, you will always be your own greatest critic, passing is at least as much about confidence and OWNING it as it is about actual physical appearance.

xx

Quote from: Alice Rogers on September 27, 2014, 06:04:37 PM
Hard to say without seeing a picture, the sad fact about transgenders is that some of us WILL have difficulty being recognised as our real genders.

But the flip side of that is that most of us find our own way to pass. Just remember, there are lots of small, slim, smooth skinned cis males out there that you probably already look more male than!

And remember, you will always be your own greatest critic, passing is at least as much about confidence and OWNING it as it is about actual physical appearance.

xx

Exactly!

Quote from: aleon515 on September 27, 2014, 05:35:22 PM
Yeah I would hestitate to use a word like "irrational". It implies that this is a very odd concern that no one has or that it is 100% unlikely. I think the odds are against it, and the longer you are on T the higher the likelihood of being read 100% male. But irrational, no.

--Jay

I disagree that the word implies it's a very odd concern - we're human, irrational thoughts are part of the package, the trick is how to handle those thoughts. The word merely means it is a concern not grounded in facts/logic.

It's easy to think you'll never be read as male when you're pre-T - but remember, T is an amazing transformative substance.  You need only look at before/after shots of people to understand. 

Quote from: blink on September 27, 2014, 06:54:56 PM
I disagree that the word implies it's a very odd concern - we're human, irrational thoughts are part of the package, the trick is how to handle those thoughts. The word merely means it is a concern not grounded in facts/logic.

I suppose, I just don't think it indicates "pathology".

--Jay

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on September 27, 2014, 07:31:35 PM
It's easy to think you'll never be read as male when you're pre-T - but remember, T is an amazing transformative substance.  You need only look at before/after shots of people to understand.

Those before and after pictures really get me smiling.

You won't know until you try, but the odds are in your favour.

I've got a small head, hands and feet though, and it's obvious to people that I work with that that's the case. We wear hardhats, so they can all see that mine is the very smallest it can the adjusted to, and overhangs my head a lot. I have to wear different gloves because my hands are too small, and my feet are size 5.

Not one person has though I was a girl because of it. We had a joke at the beginning because there was a taller guy with hands almost as small as me and I just threw it back at him and pointed out that at least mine were proportionate.  When discussing gloves the storeman said he'd get some "girlie" gloves in, in a tone that suggested he'd never have said that had he known my history. 

Small body parts aren't that much of a big deal.

I was in New Balance (shoes) and had to try on women's shoes (it's good as they have identical styles). THe day I came in, the guy said there were 4 other small guys who came in. I am pretty sure I was the only trans guy. There are short guys, go to an airport sometime and of course, we are proportional.

--Jay