Hello everyone,

Let me start off by saying I'm aware being trigender is not like having multiple personalities and I am in no way treating my gender identities as if they are personalities of their own as they are essentially different aspects of my core identity.

I have mentioned my trigender identity here and there briefly but have never gone into full detail regarding my experiences with it (aside from the unicorn forest thread). The basic definition of trigender is shifting between three genders or sometimes feeling present as all three at all times. In my instance, I have my core which is primarily genderless. I fluctuate from genderless to female or male, always returning back to genderless at the end of the day. Most of the time, the male, female and genderless identities will be present at all times as one individual.

I, (Jacey) am genderless at my core and I desire a sexless body as having genitals or sexual characteristics of either sex causes me crippling body dysphoria. I pick fairly gender-neutral clothing and present as androgynous to society. I am currently seeing a voice therapist to help shift my deepened voice (from T) to a more gender neutral range.

The female part of my identity is Jay, she is a flat-chested athletic girl. She enjoys expressing both feminine and masculine appearances, mixing both together at times. She experiences body dysphoria over the breasts our physical body has because it isn't flat-chested like hers and also the vagina because of how it looks, it looks "ugly" to her and it is a trigger if she obsesses too much about it. She enjoys wearing feminine clothing, especially excessive frills, lingerie and stockings as it makes her feel attractive.

The male part of my identity is Jason, a feminine boy who is a ->-bleeped-<-. Similar to Jay, they share the same affinity for lingerie/stockings and love for all things frilly. He experiences body dysphoria as the breasts and vagina do not align with his mind. He used to desire phalloplasty but since he enjoys dressing up in female-oriented clothing a majority of the time, he would rather not have to deal with tucking, plus he does not particularly enjoy the thought of having male genitalia. He would like to physically look between eunuch (castrated male) or a nullo (neither sex) rather than have genitals that resemble a cis-male or post-op transman.

Together as one, we have decided to pursue a sexless body. Jay and Jason don't believe their gender identity are defined by what their genitals look like. As long as they are allowed to present androgynous to the world, that matters more than what the secondary sexual characteristics the physical body has. As a result, Jay doesn't have to be self-conscious about the external appearance of a vagina looks like and Jason won't have to worry about tucking when he is dressing as a girl or stressing over being saddled with male genitalia.

I am really relieved that I do not have to pick one set of genitals over another and that we can co-exist happily within a sexless body while displaying as androgynous to the world together.

I had been struggling for quite some time about putting this together and coming out here at Susan's... I initially feared the worst but as time went on, I stopped caring because in the end, I have accepted myself and found I am most happy identifying this way.

Presenting as androgynous to the world, where all three parts of me feel happy and complete doing so. 

Kind regards,

Jacey

Thanks for opening up about what being trigender means to you.

As I was reading, and thinking about how much soul-searching has brought you to a place of understanding, I realized what a luxury it must be for binary folks who have billions of examples to rely upon toward how to relate to the world as a member of their identified gender. I hope they appreciate it.

I wish you all the peace and acceptance I can send your way.

Yes, I agree..
Thank you very much Jacey for sharing your story, you really explained it beautifully..
I feel blessed and privledged to know the real you..

from a pre op bi-trans mostly binary leaning MTF , I deeply appreciate your honesty every bit of information helps us all

i'm glad you finally found the courage to tell.

my experience of being me, feels like i'm crazy while i know i'm not.
i am so much, but at the same time just one.

the fear of not being taken seriously, was there.
a fear of being told, it is a mental illness.
or even worse, being told i don't belong.

but here, in our tiny little section, there are people who care.
who have been just as confused. who have equally impossible stories to tell.

in here, the impossible is possible. and those who try to say otherwise will eventually find out this place is not for them.
the unicorn forest is vibrant with magic.
we are many who simply accept.

you are who you say you are. and when you say something else, you are that.
all this without invalidating one or the other.
because all is real, and nothing negates anything else.

be all of you without fear.
the inhabitants of the unicorn forest won't talk about too much of anything to be something else.

Thankyou Jacey, for giving me and others an insight into what it means to be tri gender. And for sharing your story, you have clearly discovered what it means to be you, and that's just beautiful.

Now my disclaimer to the following comment is "Bree can be an insensitive b**ch sometimes and doesn't know when to be serious"

But I think it's a god send that Jay and Jason both share a similar love for fashion, I mean I'm struggling keeping two wardrobes going, it would be a nightmare having three 

Seriously though Jacey, thankyou so much

Bree xx

try keeping both long amd short natural hair. it took me years to finally agree on a haircut that i think will work.
wardrobes are so much easier to deal with.

the o ly problems i have with my breasts are that they're a little saggy (but the size is just perfect), and that they're there.
how do i make myself happy like that...

can't say i'm trigender though, i'm weirder than that.
tails have nothing to do with gender after all.

I'm mostly binary in that I'm FTM so sorry for butting in. But, this was a wonderful post and I wanted to thank you. It was very eye opening for me to read this.

What an interesting idea.  I am cis male, t-girl, queer, maybe none of the above?  I have to wrap my mind about this but it is intriguing.  You adopted names to keep some separation?  My dearest lover is a multiple, which is different but kind of similar.  She/he/they disassociated because of horrific abuse as a young child, but is the most gentle and loving group of people I know.

We are who we are for lots of reasons, I once thought it was a tragic series of mistakes, but I now look at this a a kind of crazy gift.  I am more than one, but as you say, for me at least, we are all faces of the same core personality.  I spent too many years living as a man to fully shed him, and it isn't necessary as he embraces me as woman.  I in turn, rely on his competencies and abilities.  But is there a genderless soul making a triad there too?  For me, for now, I don't really think so, but I don't think it would be weird if there was.

There are so many ways of being.  All are interesting and beautiful.  As are you

Peace
Julie

Aww, thank you so much everyone. Your unconditional love and acceptance brings tears to my eyes, thank you! It means more than you all will ever know..

BreezyB - No need to worry about being insensitive! Jason, Jay and dare I say, myself as well do enjoy the more feminine variety of clothing. It's like when I walk into a shopping centre, I feel a single magnetic tug to the womens clothes section and a magnetic tug of two people pulling me to the lingerie section when all I wanna do is get myself new pairs of boring undies! Never mind that there are two storage boxes at home crammed with all things sexy and frilly, it's just never enough for those two. Er, or me, I should say.

Taka - This tiny little section continues to surprise me everyday. I feel relief now that it is out in the open. It is indescribable. I most definitely want to keep a balance between long and short hair. I would like the front half of my hair to be long and the back half to be short that is my goal anyway...! My hair is wild and it has days where it doesn't want to be tamed Being weirder than trigender is OK! Be your own definition of weird, I know I am my own definition of monster in a positive manner. An unpredictable splash of darkness, light and everything in-between, bound to keep everyone on their toes!

Ayden - Don't apologize for butting in! Feel free to butt in anytime! You are welcome here - just as everyone else is

JulieBlair - I have struggled with believing I had multiplicity (or MPD/DID) in the past but that was when I was going through a lot of stress due to the rape, my mind resorted to some drastic measures to cope with it all. Basically an inside imaginary world where I could talk to my "multiple personalities" and it felt like a family, a better family than the one I had in the real world. I don't like mentioning this because people have argued with me that what I went through wasn't "real" because I didn't go through trauma in my childhood, that I was aware of the personalities or that lots of people get raped but they don't develop personalities from the event. Regardless of the validity of the condition in my situation, it was real to me during that stressful time and without it, I don't think I would have survived and be standing here today. It's been a nearly two years since the personalities have integrated back within me as one. I still suffer from dissociation from time to time and I've found my memory isn't entirely together as it used to be. I cannot access that inside world anymore but that's probably a good thing as I need to ground myself in reality rather than in my case, fantasy.

JulieBlair, I hope this doesn't offend you and my experiences are in no way, any reflection on your lover or the condition itself. It's just what I personally went through. Your unconditional love for your partner and their group is inspiring and wonderful to witness.

My gender identities may have well be the identities I previously had in my past. The girl that didn't get to live but wants to, the boy who didn't want to grow into a man and the current me, the person who desires to be sexless. Giving them names ... it's hard to describe why I decided to do that. Some of the way I/they react reminds me of two of the personalities I had but I am 110% sure that I am integrated as one, so it's most likely that I hold their distinct traits within my core personality, just I would have never noticed said traits until my mind broke apart and put itself back together again. All I know is that if I hadn't had those experiences of being multiple, I probably would not have been able to reach this higher self-awareness I have of myself and the many facets of my core personality I have today. It seems like... everything happens for a reason and it seems true in this case for me.

There must be a higher power watching over me... fate... destiny... making sure I am on the right track, giving little nudges here and there... 

i'm not sure breaking into multiplicity is necessary, but it might have been for you.

even when my mind broke from too much stress multiplied by even more heartbreak and a whole good portion of confused dysphoria, did i end up as what i think multiple would be. the demon and its sootball did split apart in an odd way, but... my mund might just be too stubborn. or i'm so used to talking to myself that my personalities never found reason to communicate with each other, except through their common core and knowledge?

the mind is too mysterious to ever know.

and multiplicity is so misunderstood that i think you'd never find the right answer unless you talk to other people who've had the same type of experience. there are forums for multiples, and their stories don't always talk of abuse as reason for splitting. and not all think of reintegration as healing. avoiding doctors and their "therapy" also seem common, as well as hating some sorts of medicines. not all voices are bad, some can be helpful too. don't you think?

Echelon,
What your experience is, is simply that, yours. One, or three, or both, no matter.  What loving JR has taught me is that it makes little difference in the end.  As they put it, her internal walls are higher and not all of them talk to each.  I think if your parts talk you are more or less integrated.

I think that may be why we get along.  I had to compartmentalize to survive, she rented different apartments, the difference is I have an intercom.   We are beautiful and all miraculous.

Taka,  it seems that trauma is a requisite for dissociation, but not necessarily childhood sexual abuse.  Although from my reading of the literature that is common.  Some therapists don't even accept that the condition exists,  they are wrong it does.

I am grateful for my intercom, it makes things much less confusing.

Peace,
Julie

Having a sense of a split self isn't a bad thing and many people go through it in their own understanding of themselves. Whether or not they merge is often something that changes over time, some people might do it many times, even on a regular basis. True split personalities from a psychological standpoint isn't a disorder unless they rarely, if ever, have the same memories. This is now called DID, Dissociative identity disorder.

I have taken care of people who have this, sometimes it is very hard to keep track of who they are at any given time. The key is in asking them a question that only the one you suspect them to be would know. It isn't uncommon to find a half dozen personalities, and they can switch while you are talking to them, sometimes finishing the other ones sentence even.

But under different types of stress, people often find themselves in a dissociative state, some feel an out of body experience. That can also be a symptom of other things as well. But it usually stress related.

When I talk to my therapists and psychologist, I often refer to myself as she, he or I. It's easier to explain it from my point of view. I am 'I', foremost, and 'she' is usually in front of 'he', but they are just me. There are distinct traits that each has more than the other, but they interchange these at will and are fully aware of it all as well. All thoughts are shared, the difference is only in the conclusion of a question or event that is happening. This is for the most part, something that is all happening at once, without one checking on the other, they already know...

The only way I became very much aware of this was during a time when my normal was filled with a lot of dying and death around me. That became my normal of a sort, (even that, a person can get used to if involved enough with it, vs being an observer). I could feel this as a sensation, it seemed like the she and he had moved further apart as time went on until it happened. This is how I know that I am non-binary, simply because it was apparent, I always felt it, this was more, much more. This is why I never went the route of transitioning, there was nothing to transition to, there still isn't. Overwhelming stress brought on by circumstances that I had little control over despite being involved with it. It was as if they were yelling at me from a distance that I couldn't hear them, there was only 'I', lost without them.

I didn't just fall over that edge, I jumped. I became broken. There is no honest way to explain it, what that edge is. The ones who know have gone over it. No two people are alike, no two people will  experience it the same way. It was unlike anything I had ever experienced at the time.

It took a different way of thinking to come back from that, sometimes I'm not all that sure I really did. Could be I just got used to it, it is now my normal. But they tell me it am back, so I'll go with that.
But the leading up to to it, as they became what felt like dissociative or split away, that gave me my insight into myself as well. It still happens, it is very uncomfortable to experience, I am much better as a whole and recognizing that there are differences within my own psyche. But that is my normal. The one I own.

Once recognized, once you self validate, once you recognize your normal and realize that it can indeed change, it is yours. Self validation is a powerful thing to own for me. You can't take it away.
You can mess with it, but it is strong enough that it will mess with anyone who tries to take it. There is much talk about this, from me included, but it is in and about those who attempt or do invalidate others for me. It is as bad as if I was doing that to myself, it is that wrong.  Do it and I will use it like a weapon to defeat it. It is no different to me than to see someone being psychically abused, the results are the same.

I have often come to realize that those who do this have yet to be able to validate themselves. It is wise to never take it from others to find out where you are by comparison. It doesn't work that way, we each have our own normals and validations to have or to find, we own them. Nobody has a right to tell you who you are or what is your normal. Others can point out things of concern, but they have no right to invalidate, to tell you their normal is better or yours isn't good enough.

It is a two way street, and what goes around usually comes around. To validate others is for still others to do the same for you. To invalidate is weak at best, but it does make one hell of a good weapon against those who persist. They are weak in their own validation, unsure of their normal, and seek to take others down instead of bringing themselves up. Invalidating will come back around, it always does one way or another, you set yourself up to it, that is the weakness in it. To validate others will come back around to you just as easily. There is strength in it There is strength in your own self validation, whether you realize you have or not.

Ativan

behold ativan, my teacher in everything normal. a person i will never regret having known.

julie, i am aware that dissociation as a mental disorder often is caused by abuse in childhood. my brother experiences it occationally as part of his ptsd (caused mostly by abuse in early puberty), most often noticed when he suddenly finds himself in the middle of a conversation that was definitely flowing well, but was lead by a personality that he can't control. he says he feels kind of lost when that happens, because when that people loving personality disappears, he has no idea how to carry on the conversation, or even what it was about.

but there are people who report mutliplicity, who have not been abused enough to cause an actual dissociation. which means there are personalities who communicate well with each other, share memories and knowledge, and can even pretend to be one common surface personality. what these systems report is oftwn also that they avoid shrinks like the plague, only their parter or best friend really know about their multiplicity, and that they are afraid of what will happen if anyone else find out. or that thwy won't be believed. it probably feels a little like trying to convince people that non-binary exists, except that some books say that dissociative disorder is onlu caused by abuse. so there exists a real fear and even bad memories of shrinks insisting that they have been abused when nothing of the sort has happened, or that they are advised to erase members of the system.

i for my part felt a real sense of loss when the sootball left me only a week or two after it appeared. it's the only very distinct personality i've noticed that is not like me but still a part of me. and it has an odd behavior that i can't produce without it present. it was a result of a tiny bit too much stress, but that was not the reason for it coming back to me again suddenly.

i don't know what i'm actually writing anymore, but it seems my point tries to be never to trust the books. reality is a hundred timea more fascinating than any book has yet managed to convey. and many of the things found in psychology are old theories that have scared away anyone who could have proven them wrong or too narrow in their scope.

I resisted therapy and such for most of my life.
Back when that split happened, I only have memories afterwards of trying to figure out what had happened.
I very much realize that I was ECT'd multiple times.
How much, I'll never really know.
There are years of time I can't account for much of.
Things did work out well for me, I had some outstanding jobs, did a lot of different things.
I did eventually end up by stress, out on my own, suicidal.
I have no real memory of that as well, but enough to remember some pretty bad times.
That resulted in another ECT to kill the apparent rage I was in.
Memory loss that is still there...

It took months to finally see a therapist, I started that to stay out of the system.
It turned out to be pretty good, I eventually started to see gender psychologists, still do.
My therapists, I have had to teach each one of them about a lot of what I do know, some were better than others.
I regained a lot of my memories back, the ones I talked about, the cause of the split.
Once they started, they came back pretty quick and they are still.
I did know enough to remember things, just couldn't connect the dots, events, together.
This happened over a course of several years, not an easy thing to do.

My therapists have all been chosen by me, I interviewed them first, a wise thing to do.
There are ones I have run into who have some really poor ideas of what multiple identities are, haven't a clue.
My therapists have all been my guides through the remembering and everything else I feel like talking about.
It did take one of them to get over the fear of actually talking about it.

I've been doing this for over five years, and have now moved on from the best one.
I don't know if my new one will work out or not, but it seems OK so far.
I have brought this up with my psychologists, they all relate it to non-binary.
Some of it is, some are more complicated than that and they don't want to go there.
Neither do I, not with them, but with my therapists, I have control over the narrative, and I go at my own pace.

Abuse of any kind is major stress, I would suppose that certain kinds are looked at closer than others.
It isn't so much an events or events, it can be one huge stress, it can be a lot of little ones that just accumulated.

The result is the same, and you don't need to have any of this to feel multiples that work together in yourself.
Stress brings it out, but it was there to begin with.
How you deal with it, is how it is seen.
It can cause stress that induces a different kind of view of it for yourself, but it doesn't have to.
For some, it works out just fine, and they have never really thought twice about it until someone brings it up and they question it.

It's the obvious things that get the most attention, so saying abuse is the cause, it would seem likely, but not necessary.
I probably would have been just fine, I have always known about myself, the events caused it to go into overdrive.
It didn't cause it, it brought out what was already there.

I like seeing a therapist, it keeps me centered.
I have people in place to tell me if I'm going of the edge, it is always close by.
My normal. It isn't nearly as bad as a lot of people who have no help, refuse it like I did.
I got lucky, the hard way.
When I talk about myself with my therapists, sometimes I talk about being here, and I talk about Ativan in the third person sometimes.
It holds true to the conversation as well as referring to she and he, but they are how I grew up in a binary world.
I was told that there are only male and female, one or the other.
I learned to not talk about it.

I have to wonder how many people really understand themselves correctly because they grew up the same way...
It was curious enough for me to assign and to divide while growing up, that changed the older I got, she and he are not the she and he of cis.
They have grown up as well.
They understand the difference, they lived it as I did. We did.
It always was interchangeable, but they are different.
And they are by way of gender, and they have traits, but I wouldn't call them the standard cis definitions, those never really worked.
That's half the reason I stopped talking about it, and refused to see a therapist or psychologist.

That I had suicidal tendencies come up that did in fact turn into rage for some reason, it all led to finding out more.
I simply got lucky with that, but I also knew the significance of how it all relates together.
Non-binary could be looked at as a multiple or not, depends on how you see it for yourself.
I have read a lot of stuff over the years here and elsewhere.
Nobody is the same. Similar, sure.
But it is my understanding that multiple isn't required for non-binary and non-binary can be understood in simple and/or complex terms.
It depends on the person.
We talk about this here all the time, in different ways.
But DID, as it is defined, (and it isn't all that well), is not the same thing.
I have rarely heard anyone even indicating it.
I have been through plenty of discussions and testing by those who mean well, to the point of it declared not a part of who i am.

It really does a disservice to non-binaries to talk in terms of it like it is, when it isn't even close.
People read that and they think that's a part of it.
Wasn't all that long ago that any trans, even gay were considered to have a disorder.
Multiples in non-binaries is not a disorder, trust me or find out, it just isn't.
But people do get confused by words that can mean different things.
I have no real other way of talking about it other than to also say multiples, and people with DID do as well.
But they are two different things.

It is why I still use the good old she and he who are I.
It works well enough for my therapists and psychologists.
But to the public in general, they are always whispering about all kinds of mental disorders, even those who have them.
It isn't hard for them to be confusing, it isn't that hard here either.

If people quit whispering about mental disorders and just educated themselves and drop the stigma of them, the world would be much better off.
If people quit whispering about Trans people, they would be better off and we would to, but only by default.

We wouldn't change, they would, by simply educating themselves.
Ativan

*Edited earlier for me, re-edited (10/06/2014) back to groups of thoughts, as each sentence usually is.
I was tired when I wrote this and did take the opportunity to fix a couple errors, words that didn't quite get deleted when I changed the thought to read better.
While I can appreciate redoing my comment for me, a simple message saying it could use a few breaks is all that was needed.
I did have to change a few of those to make it flow as it should have, along with putting most sentences on separate lines, like I usually do.
(There is a reason for this...)

Ativan - thank you for writing those responses, although, part of your response is the reason why I specified in the OP that I know the difference between being trigender and being multiple/MPD/DID. But despite that, the discussion veered into that topic and I felt it would be worth explaining my experiences, which isn't a bad thing because the comments from JulieBlair and Taka proved to be immensely helpful. 

Quote from: ativan on October 05, 2014, 03:30:52 PMTrue split personalities from a psychological standpoint isn't a disorder unless they rarely, if ever, have the same memories. This is now called DID, Dissociative identity disorder.

This is why I originally didn't want to bring multiplicity into the conversation. I am well aware of the disorder and I do not appreciate having my experiences invalidated just because they do not meet the criteria of what the "true" disorder is. I am sure this most likely was not your intent but the implication is still there, just as it was from the previous thread you mentioned DID in.

I'm not sure why you are talking about self-validation because I already feel valid in my own identity and experiences. Yes, people have invalidated my experiences but again, Taka & JulieBlair's responses assured me that my experiences are my own, that nobody can take that away from me. I appreciate your concern though, thank you.

I must thank you for turning my coming out story into a story about mental illness getting tangled up with non-binaries. That wasn't my intention at all and if the thread got taken in that direction, I can't seem to understand how it can be a "disservice" to non-binaries. I think most people here are very intelligent and I would like to think they are aware that mental illness has little to no connection to gender identity or non-binaries. Sure, there are people in society who will take it the wrong way but whether they do or not should not have any reflection of us as individuals. Yes, we have an obligation to educate others (I'm sure others would argue otherwise) but it is solely up to the person themselves what they do with that knowledge.   

The discussion has been helpful for me in this thread in many ways and I frankly do not care how this will look to others and I will not be shamed into silence. Just as you are free to speak about your experiences, I am free to speak about mine as well like anyone else here. The fact I am able to write this now, I suppose that reveals my true colors as a coward.

Finally, a big thank you JulieBlair & Taka for your kind words.     

No my dear you will not be shamed at all.

The courage to stand up and bare yourself is the first step in getting to authenticity and truth and growth.

It tests others to show themselves, and they will, to show if they are worthy of being your friends, or going to be critical and foolish instead.

Our truths are our truths.  They are in the moment, as we process our gender perception, learn how to wear it, learn to look deep within to find the nature(s) of our diamond core of trans.  It isn't easy to get all the way there, and there is a lifetime to look at all the facets of it.

It is what it is, we can be ashamed of it or embrace it, hold it up high, and celebrate both our uniqueness and our authenticity.

You are authentic.  It is a gift that is priceless, and not something all will achieve in this life.

Blessings my dear

---Nails out, heart open, living free

Satinjoy

i can't ask ativan about this anymore, but i think they might have taken this opportunity to speak up about mental healthe issues as well as the multiplicity that many non-binary seem to experience. their thought may have drifted from your intention with the topic, but it is interesting to read this from someone who has as diverse experiences as them

it might have been a digression rather than an input to your experience in specific.
but it dies reflect some understandings or misunderstandings which may be floating around.
let's also think of how they're speakung from a medical viewpoint at times, which may not really reflect thwir own view or what should be regarded as valid or true.

it is a shame how many medical professionals will try to invalidate an experience of multiplicity just because the supposed prerequisites aren't present. but some may validate without calling it a disorder, as it isn't a disorder until you as a whole start malfunctioning because of it.

I'm not going to lie, it was interesting reading Ativan's posts but part of me felt like it was drifting further from the trigender topic and focusing more on mental health, the misconceptions and the effect it has on non-binaries. I'm not against discussing those topics, in fact, I highly encourage it, it just felt like it probably would have been a better topic in a new thread or even in the Gender Studies - as Ativan spoke mostly from a medical perspective.

About the trigender thing, after much thought-processing and introspection, I have realized how close Jay and Jason are in terms of interests and their affinity to female-oriented fashion - I realized I had been suppressing the fact that I enjoy the things they do as well. I feel I fit more androgyne than trigender but I still feel strongly agender as well if that makes sense. Gah, identity, why must you be so fluid and conflicting! Non-binary it is then - that has remained constant, at least!



   

haha, yeah. the non-binary is fairly consistent.

your're right. that discussion is worthy of its own thread.
it's a shame though, that ativan left. they usually have a lot of interesting input.