Could I please be provided with literature or experience on standards of policy or testimonials of transsexuals seeking treatment in the military, particularly the marine reserves?

I understand any estrogen therapy could become very apparent.

I'm already a personal fitness trainer, an avid practitioner of MMA and a power lifter.
Seeing as I'm already enlisted, I was hoping that after I got out of training I could get away with anti-androgens through a professional not associated with the military.  I don't know if the insurance provided by the military would cover that.
I already meet well beyond perfect PFT on crunches and pullups which are the only two things that could suffer from decreased muscle tone, so focusing on just maintaining those shouldn't be too difficult.  Along with simply running, pullups, pushups and crunches I imagine I should be able to get by without much of an issue in PFT.  Hopefully I'd be able to lose the majority of my build(I put it all on in the past 2 years) and go back to being well, toned again.  I'm intending to continue working out my legs, seeing as I don't see how that could be detrimental to my figure in any way and I'm trying to pass as being more androgynous, as I have been most of my life, until I can fully transition.

I have a history of HRT already, when I was 13 I went on full HRT, Est, AA, and Pro.  I stayed on until I was forced off by my parents at 15.
While on it I noticed an astounding increase in metabolism and libido which are in contrast to what I was told to expect.  Everything else stayed the same.

I would be transitioning presently, were it not that I'm already enlisted into the delayed entree program(DEP) and that if I don't leave as scheduled for training, I won't have a place to live.  After training, I'll have more financial stability and can do a few more semesters of tech school, transfer to a university and complete my bachelor's degree over there whilst serving out my time in the reserves and setting the stage for an easy, effortless transition.  I should also note that I'm already planning on getting my name changed before I go in hopefully, to something that I could get by with.  That way, I can keep my military record on any future applications and also have my college degree have my name on it without having to go through a ton of crap to get stuff switched or explained.

Any and all advice on this would be helpful.  It's somewhat pheasible that I could not join the military, but then I would have a dishonerable discharge(I think) on my record.  I can't ask my recruiter about this topic directly, and I don't have many supportive friends.  Perhaps one of you could call up a recruiter and request what would happen if a poolie asked to be dropped from the DEP program.
I also still have 9/11 fresh in my mind.  It's always fresh in my mind.  I have to do something.  That's why I didn't fight it to start with when I was taken off the hormones, because I thought that I might as well take the opportunity as a guy to get this out of my system.

  The use of HRT meds in the military is flirting with a discharge.  While physically you could still pass your PT exams without much difficulty assuming you can pass them now.  However...a legal HRT regimen would very likely create physical characteristics not normally associated with a male.  If you are talking about just taking an anti-androgen and not estrogen it's possible I suppose, however, the military insurance will definately not cover it unless it were prescribed for another reason.  Under "Don't ask, Don't tell" you would be discharged without question should it become known.

  If you want out right now I would go to your recruiter and explain your situation and you may qualify for "ELS" or Entry Level Seperation.  It's not an honorable or a dishonorable discharge...it basically means you've been absolved of your contract.  I think you need to decide which one you want more at this point in your life, serving in the military or beginning transition because the two are going to be extremely difficult together.

Quote from: BrandiOK on October 02, 2007, 01:06:39 PM
  The use of HRT meds in the military is flirting with a discharge.  While physically you could still pass your PT exams without much difficulty assuming you can pass them now.  However...a legal HRT regimen would very likely create physical characteristics not normally associated with a male.  If you are talking about just taking an anti-androgen and not estrogen it's possible I suppose, however, the military insurance will definately not cover it unless it were prescribed for another reason.  Under "Don't ask, Don't tell" you would be discharged without question should it become known.

What sort of effects are you talking about?
Surely I wouldn't be suspected because of not having much muscle?
I mean, if I'm still scoring perfect PFTs whilst most aren't, how could I be discovered?
As far as insurance, could it be prescribed as a hair loss treatment by a sympathetic family doctor?

QuoteIf you want out right now I would go to your recruiter and explain your situation and you may qualify for "ELS" or Entry Level Seperation.  It's not an honorable or a dishonorable discharge...it basically means you've been absolved of your contract.  I think you need to decide which one you want more at this point in your life, serving in the military or beginning transition because the two are going to be extremely difficult together.

I doubt I could get an ELS from my recruiter.
And also, how do you think I could seperate and manage myself financially?  I don't think I could.  As far as I know, working full time at $7/hour isn't enough to cover the bills.

Well, if the military is more important to you right now, then go in and do it. If you are worried about going on HRT and being in the military and any possible complications, then just don't take HRT. It's ultimately up to you on what you decide; you are responsible for yourself.

No offense but being TS is the same as being gay if not worse in the US military and HRT has MAJOR effects on the body.  It is impossible to hide the changes over time. 

you wont stay perfect long on AAs, TRUST ME. you could survive sure, but it would knock you down a bit, and soon become obvious, within the year. If i was in your boat, id suffer OUT of the militery, than go INTO it at this point. IT IS NOT THE PLACE FOR A TRANS PERSON at this present time. if your outed, you had better know kung bloody fu... and thats not even official stuff yet. its a NASTY place...
R

Quote from: Rachael on October 04, 2007, 02:26:45 AM
you wont stay perfect long on AAs, TRUST ME. you could survive sure, but it would knock you down a bit, and soon become obvious, within the year.

Why is that?
When I was on full fledged hormone therapy at 14 I never worked out at all but could still pop out 10 pullups at any given time(school PT).
How would it become obvious?
There's plenty of marines I know now that severaly lack muscle tone and get by with just the basics, they don't devote any extra time to PT except what they're ordered to.
And I know plenty of marines, seeing as I live a mile away from the entrance to Parris Island.

I'm not challenging, I'm gathering information, so don't get all, "well just do whatever you wanna do cuz you don't want help."

Because estrogen decreases muscle.  Additionally AA have a significant effect on your heart rate.  I could go on and on, but if you think you will not be noticed on HRT you are mistaken, you will look very female within 6-9 months if not less considering your age.
Then there is the whole BREAST issue.  You will develop them and they will be hard to hide.  HRT has major effects, and as much as you think you can maintain ambiguity, its a mistake.  They will figure it out in time. 

As it was said, the military, ESPECIALLY the marines is not a friendly place for a trans person.  You are coming off as very naive. 

Then there is the whole fact that you will probably be sent to a dangerous war of choice (Iraq had NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11) if you do not take them.

If anything being trans is now a way OUT of the military. 

its not tone, its muscle itself, why did you start and stop hrt at 14?
anyway, hrt gives you the musculature of a female, so if a girl can hack what you want to do, fine, but i seriously discurage it, you will look less masculine, the point of hrt? and marines arnt the huggy crying, share around a mug of cocoa types...
R

As a military person myself I can tell you that dropping out of DEP will not give you any problems. The recruiter might wonder why but you don't have to explain too much. Since you haven't formally joined up then they can't do anything. They can't you a dishonorable discharge or anything since your not enlisted.

havent they told you to cut your hair yet?
because heres a suprise baby,  ITS BUZZ CUT TIME! reason i left
R

Quote from: Amy T. on October 04, 2007, 09:33:30 AM
Because estrogen decreases muscle.  Additionally AA have a significant effect on your heart rate.  I could go on and on, but if you think you will not be noticed on HRT you are mistaken, you will look very female within 6-9 months if not less considering your age.

I already look very feminine.  I have since I was like, 4.  I can't get by without my pathetic facial hair because when I'm clean shaven and without a unibrow(which I deliberately keep) then I'm handed kids menus or called, "mam."
I'm not planning on estrogen treatment, just AA.
How does AA have an effect on my heart rate?
I already have pathetic cardiovascular performance(3 miles in 25:52) but I'm sure it will improve at bootcamp, running everyday and all.
If you know anything about this, if anyone does, please share.  I always see eye to eye when it concerns medical stuff.

QuoteThen there is the whole BREAST issue.  You will develop them and they will be hard to hide.

It's called the bench press.  It develops the fan-like muscle covering the chest known as the Pectoralis major.  Most marines have chests.  I have a chest, and I still ahve big nipples from previous estrogen therapy.  I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference between a muscular chest and a muscular chest with minimal breast development(it took a year for me to get into a C-cup with AA, Estr, AND Pro).
 

QuoteHRT has major effects, and as much as you think you can maintain ambiguity, its a mistake.  They will figure it out in time. 

Even if it's just one weekend out of the month?  :-(

QuoteYou are coming off as very naive. 

I am.
And if I don't ask these questions, who will?

QuoteIf anything being trans is now a way OUT of the military. 

haha, good idea:-P

Quote from: Rachael on October 04, 2007, 10:35:35 AM
marines arnt the huggy crying, share around a mug of cocoa types...
R

Oh, sure they are! LOL This is what they really do when no one is looking, they gather around the campfire, eating chocolate and marshmallows and drinking cocoa, talking about how much they miss their girls, crying and letting it all out... and sharing deep felt concerns while hugging each other gently. Long, warm hugs.


Anyway, Kalt, people are worried that you're going to march off to a war with HRT and (as much as you think you'll have no effect), the HRT will affect you and people will notice and people can hurt you. If Hrt has no effect on you what-so-ever, then I'd be seeing a doctor about that.

HRT isn't a game. Being transsexual isn't a game. It's a dangerous world out there. Go read up on trans related murders. I don't think any one of us want you to be on that list and to be remembering you on Nov. 20 (Transgender day of Remembrance). We would all love to see you become the beautiful woman you are. And just because your trans, it doesn't mean you can't change the world -- and you don't need to be in the military to change the world and make a difference.

I want you to take a look at this list: http://www.gender.org/remember/about/core.html  I want you to look through and click the names. I want you to think really hard. I want you to feel with your heart. Go through that list. See what has happened to other people. Notice that there's not a lot of information, many with no investigation, and many with no picture. These are people who wanted to live, not be martyrs. Live for them, don't be another victim by blindly walking into a situation where you could become one.

Do me a favor, also go and rent the movie "Soldier's Girl." While your at it, I also recommend, "Boys Don't Cry."

Quote from: Rachael on October 04, 2007, 10:35:35 AM
its not tone, its muscle itself, why did you start and stop hrt at 14?

16.
My parents had me in a group home and had papers in front of them saying that I wouldn't be their kid anymore if they signed.  They would only let me come home if I got off the hormones.

Quoteanyway, hrt gives you the musculature of a female

Muscle is muscle.
All muscles on males and females originate in the same location and insert into the same location.
The difference is that females have less mass and more fat because a lacking of testosterone.  Even females though, can be as buff if not more buff than the average male without supplemental aid.

Quoteyou will look less masculine

I know^_^

Quotethe point of hrt?

To take preventative measures to decrease further masculinization.  To begin changing my body slowly, over time, so by the time I'm done with serving and the estrogen is then available to me, I would immediately be capable of beginning RLT and getting on full HRT with amazing effects.

Quotemarines arnt the huggy crying, share around a mug of cocoa types...

You'd be amazed...  From what I've observed, aside from navy corpsman, marines have the highest percentage of closet homosexuals.  And the navy corpsmen well, I'd estimate 1 out of 8 of the males is gay.

Posted on: October 04, 2007, 01:05:21 PM

---

Quote from: Rachael on October 04, 2007, 11:38:20 AM
havent they told you to cut your hair yet?
because heres a suprise baby,  ITS BUZZ CUT TIME! reason i left
R

I've already had my hair cut.
It's a nice buzz.
Wanna see?



Posted on: October 04, 2007, 01:06:30 PM

---

Quote from: Pysgod on October 04, 2007, 10:39:55 AM
As a military person myself I can tell you that dropping out of DEP will not give you any problems. The recruiter might wonder why but you don't have to explain too much. Since you haven't formally joined up then they can't do anything. They can't you a dishonorable discharge or anything since your not enlisted.

Well, what am I supposed to do about finances?
I mean, if I don't go then my parents would kick me out.
There's a slight possibility I could stay another 6 months, make good enough grades to transfer to a university, but I'd still be financially crippled.

I can't get my head around this one.........or understand it. Why would someone go into the military in the first place of they were TS?

Quote from: Berliegh on October 04, 2007, 06:42:56 PM
I can't get my head around this one.........or understand it. Why would someone go into the military in the first place of they were TS?

Just because someone has one dream, doesn't mean he/she can't have other dreams that potentially conflict too.
And finances.
I'm getting kicked out in december military or not.
What do you propose I do?  Drop out of college and go suck stuff on the streets?  :-(

Quote from: kalt on October 04, 2007, 07:11:54 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on October 04, 2007, 06:42:56 PM
I can't get my head around this one.........or understand it. Why would someone go into the military in the first place of they were TS?

Just because someone has one dream, doesn't mean he/she can't have other dreams that potentially conflict too.
And finances.
I'm getting kicked out in december military or not.
What do you propose I do?  Drop out of college and go suck stuff on the streets?  :-(

Get financial aid and a job to go to a university so you can complete college?

Quote from: shanetastic on October 04, 2007, 11:53:58 PM

Quote from: kalt on October 04, 2007, 07:11:54 PM


Just because someone has one dream, doesn't mean he/she can't have other dreams that potentially conflict too.

Get financial aid and a job to go to a university so you can complete college?

Exactly Educational Loans and grants, and work study and working while going to school.  It can be done, if you think you have to resort to prostitution you are mistaken.

Quote from: Berliegh on October 04, 2007, 06:42:56 PM
I can't get my head around this one.........or understand it. Why would someone go into the military in the first place of they were TS?

I feel the exact same way.  I personally cannot get it myself and never will. 

Quote from: kalt on October 04, 2007, 07:11:54 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on October 04, 2007, 06:42:56 PM
I can't get my head around this one.........or understand it. Why would someone go into the military in the first place of they were TS?

Just because someone has one dream, doesn't mean he/she can't have other dreams that potentially conflict too.
And finances.
I'm getting kicked out in december military or not.
What do you propose I do?  Drop out of college and go suck stuff on the streets?  :-(

So you want to be a man fighting as a soldier and then also take HRT.....I don't buy it.....you may not be TS at all but just merely confused?

Quote from: Berliegh on October 05, 2007, 05:50:13 AM
So you want to be a man fighting as a soldier and then also take HRT.....I don't buy it.....you may not be TS at all but just merely confused?

Oh come on, do I really come across as uneducated and unintelligent?
I'm well aware what I am, I'm well aware what a transsexual is, and I recognise and embrace the parallel.
I don't know.
I'm gonna go get my name changed in the next few months, and request my recruiter to shoot back my ship date towards feb-ish.  That way I'll have time to both evaluate how I do in school and piss him the ->-bleeped-<- off and he might drop me then and there.