I feel like when other people talk about their experiences, esp. with respect to gender, I'm like a blind person hanging out with a bunch of sighted people and they start talking about how fabulous the sunset was.

For me, "non-binary" is simply a description, and a negative description at that; that is, describing me by what I'm not, as if I were labeled "non-green" (news flash: I'm not Kermit )  Pretty much every sort of characterization of aspects of my "gender" are like that.  MAAB, raised male, gender non-conforming, and, if it ever comes to that, trans female.  They are/would be simply descriptions.  I don't "identify" with them, any more than I "identify" with being 180 cm. tall.  To the extent I can be labeled "non-binary", it simply means I don't fit neatly into either of the two gender boxes.

But from my reading here, it sounds like for a lot of people it is part of their identity.  Or at least something that describes what they are, rather than what they are not.  It's like how "being gay" is a lot more than simply being sexually attracted to your own (binary) sex.  I try to understand what it is to have a non-binary identity, or a male or female identity, for that matter.  But for me it is like those colors of the sunset that a blind person can only imagine.

On the other hand, it sounds like for some people, understanding what it's like not to have a male or female identity (or any gender identity) is just as difficult.  That I can understand (the not understanding part), because we all live in a world in which anything other than "male" or "female" is inconceivable.  It's built into the structure of our ways of thinking.  There are days when I can't understand how I can fail to have a gender identity, either.  The hive mind kind of takes over and I see what I'm supposed to see, not what's there.  It's really, really weird.  On the other hand, being a square circle, or whatever -- something which there's no language to describe -- is kind of weird, too, just in a different way.

Someone once said" "the universe is not just weirder than we imagine; it's weirder than we can imagine."  The same is true of our souls, I guess.

Quote from: Asche on October 12, 2014, 09:34:29 PM
I feel like when other people talk about their experiences, esp. with respect to gender, I'm like a blind person hanging out with a bunch of sighted people and they start talking about how fabulous the sunset was.

You're welcome to borrow my blind cane anytime.!
I feel just that way much of the time also. It takes time to really wrap your brain around these complicated concepts, but you're sure to understand it all in time.

I tend not to like any of the labels myself, but using non binary seems a good way to tell others about myself, they seem to need some sort of label to relate to.?

All I know for sure, is there are some brilliant minds here to explain things, and there's no better place to learn.

Mark

it's not like i identify as non-binary either. i see it mostly as a convenient label to put on all the different identities which are not male or female. seems to me like there are very few non-binary people who share the same identity, and thus it gets difficult to create online communities or offline support groups for that which people identify as.

there are people who identify as more specific non-binary genders like androgyne, bigender, neutreus, agender... if none of thwm fit you, there is a freedom under the non-binary umbrella to create your own label, something which is unique to you or which you share with someone else, to have a description, or just a word to attach to your identity.

for me, gender is not really something which i identify as. it's just there as a very defining part of me, in the same way as my height limits how high shelves i can reach without standing on a chair...

but people like to identify each other's genders. so i've been trying to identify my own, and failed time and time again. i'm not really androgyne or bigender or even trigender. i do have gender though, a whole lot of it, but nobody has given my kind of gender a good name before. so in order to just put a label on it, the same way as we put names on people to distinguish them from each other, i have called it 29A.

I'm actually happy to use the neagtive-"NON-binary" because to me, that isn't what I identify as, it's what I despise and reject.  I reject the binary system-but I suppose that might be very different from some others. 

I believe "not being binary" sounds more like a state of mind (without a need to make a declaration), whereas non-binary sounds more like an identity.

Use what feels right.

Well thought out post Asche...

Nonbinary.  A negative description of those of us who looked to fit into something and knew at core we did not.   A group united in not fitting in.   A group that now defines its base identity in a positive way as "their unique gender", their unique truth, the truth that is, as opposed to that which is not truth for us, the mainstreem gender choices, of the cis, of society, of trans.

A group that sometimes could be self percieved as the misfits of trans.   The newbies that think they are freaks.   Then, they start reading the posts.  And are blown away by the wisdom and self searching and evidence of an authentic life that many cannot even dream of living.

Not binaries.  A group that in their loneliness and need to reach out and touch someone else that gets it, describes their experience of the truth, trying to let others that know they are different that it is ok to be different, that it is real, that they are not self decieved, that non binary or  the celebration of unique gender is a meaningful part of the trans experience and trans community.

So we define ourselves with a negative,  based on the overwhelming conformity needs of others.  Some of the conformists driven by thoughts like  "they are pretty, what gender are they, if they are my birth gender I cannot feel attracted because i would be gay, I am uncomfortable, I need that to go away, you go away."

I am speaking of the cis.

Our challenge is to define ourselves as who we are,   not by who we are not.  Our challenge is to take pride in the umbrella of the nonbinary and its inclusiveness, a place that did not even exist here on the forum until mid year, drawing me in personally and the rest of the mtf genderqueer, those who did not self percieve as androgyn, which is something people can point at and say, wow, a middle blend of male and female, how cool.

How cool is genderqueer.  It can for me be an impossible presentation socially.  The pain is not nice.  Others can pass as themselves, I in my current presentation fly in the face of social conformity and become an object of scorn and ridicule.  Unless I choose to be pretty, and by doing so lose everything....

Whatever the case, we need to be united as the power of the unique, the unbridalled courage of the non conformist, the bearers of our truth without compromise, proud to be nonbinaries, proud to be free.

Nails out and finally grown back, hair down and finally not looking like a total guy, heart wide open, and living as free as I know how.

And the sweeties and honeys are flying every time the cis see my nails, it is quite empowering indeed.....

Love to all here,


Satinjoy

Quote from: Kaelin on October 13, 2014, 01:36:39 AM
I believe "not being binary" sounds more like a state of mind (without a need to make a declaration), whereas non-binary sounds more like an identity.

Use what feels right.

Non-binary is simply and internal compass that doesn't point to either pole specifically, whereas androgynous is more of an external ID in terms of either physical appearance, preferred dress mode or both. It's not as confusing as some would make it seem.