Oh dear, how a thread opens.My apologies if I triggered people.

I think discussion of language is a great use of a general forum. This specific discussion is interesting to me.

Sure, it may be frustrating in some contexts, and may seem, or even be, a barrier to reaching the goal of a more specifically-focused group, but how we use language is very important to communication.
It should be discussed somewhere, for certain. Right here seems like a good place.

Quote from: Cindy on October 17, 2014, 08:30:06 AM
Oh dear, how a thread opens.My apologies if I triggered people.

nah, it's probably just me. being a little sensitive today.
and you're good at fixing things, even though i'm sorry for having made you tell one of your painful truths.
might have been a little harsh myself.

i'm still interested in the history of the wildcard though.
is it before or after trans, or a modification to fit more better?

do we have any other word that fit us better or are more including?
are the trans* words a good description of parts of our groupor have we just accepted a label someone else put on us?

semantics change as language and words are used differently.
discussing it is worthwhile, as long as it is in the form of a general discussion rather than a flame war that splits the community, making us lose focus on what is even more important.

I never saw the asterisk as denoting all, I always see it as a marker for a footnote or special attention.   I wondered why it was even used with trans. The site terminology says transgender includes all non conforming. Trans is just shorter to write/type/say.

Could it be that trans is not actually a word? Transgender is a word, but trans is not. I mean people think of it as one but it's not. So instead of writing out the whole word "transgender", you write trans*. It means the same thing and is an umbrella term. I can't actually understand why people think it's exclusive of someone. Transgender is also an umbrella term. I see them as essentially meaning the same thing. It's computer nerdy so I like that sort of thing.
Asterisk in Boolean algebra is like a wild card or something.


--Jay

it's exactly the wildcard that makes it seem exclusive to some.
makes it sound like you have to be something that starts with "trans" to be included.
my identity doesn't start with "trans" at all, but i can still accept it falling under the transgender umbrella. but then again, if all idebtities are transgender identities, why not just use transgender? instead of also including only the subgroups that start with "trans".

also, "trans" is being used as a word, an adjective in fact, and anything being used as a word is a word as per any linguistic definition. it has to be commonly and frequently used over time in order to get into a dictionary, but that doesn't make it any less of a word.
just think abouy how many english words were invented by shakespeare. people probably said those aren't even "real" words back in his time, but nowadays we don't even pay them a second thought.

OK another evening/night in Aus.

Hi Taka.

My thought is why do people get hung up on words?

To be honest I don't care if I'm referred to as trans, trans* (covering transgender, transsexual, transqueer, transfemale,  transmale, trans etc) gorgeous, hey you, or any other word.
What is the issue? Obviously there is one and it is important to understand, but what is the issue?

I'm lost. Hence my frustration and my possible inappropriate replies - for which I apologise. But I just don't understand the issue!

Help please!!

people get hung up on words because we use them to define the world and ourselves.
i am also one of those who don't really care all that much, unless people try calling me weeaboo.
but there is still the fact that people use words to identify with, or as different from.
ust like some lesbians back in the day felt a need for a different word than that which gay men use to define themselves, many trans people also feel a need to identify as something other than anything that starts with "trans". it's a funny thing how important words become when they feel wrong. i know how odd it is to be called daughter, and you probably know why you don't find it right to be called a man.

many trans womem would rather be known as woman rather than transwoman, the same for trans men. and there are a whole lot of other things to consider too, like how the usage and grammar of a word can change over time, as people find ways to use them that fit better with the reality they live.

this whole thing about trans and trans* is difficult for me to explain with words. i tried drawing the feeling i got, it fails partly because of handwriting, partly because "everything that" was not written out before taking a pic. it's supposed to read "everything that starts with 'trans'".

now this is only the feeling i have, of where the problem lies. it is not an answer, nor an accusation. just me trying to express what i think makes the wildcard look wrong to some. i do not believe it was ever intended that way, but just like with all words used to sescribe people, it can easily fail. the original word for my own ethnicity is now considered a derogatory, just the same as indian, eskimo, negro, ->-bleeped-<- etc. trans might end up there one day too, depending on how the trans society will feel about this word and its usage in the future. we can't know that now, but discussing words when a group find them problematic, is always worthwhile, unless we wish to exclude or other a minority group.