What is real-life experience? I mean I know I have to dress as a guy which I already do but how can I be a guy when I'm not physically male. I want to know other people's experiences of this and how did you change the way you act? Did people react differently to you? Do I have to start talking in a deep voice?

Quote from: Canl on October 27, 2014, 07:31:05 AM
What is real-life experience?

RLE is simply living as your target gender. It is done to make sure you can handle many issue's like social situations, daily life and generally doing well with transition. Therapist's use your experiences good and bad to tailor therapy sessions.

I want to know other people's experiences of this and how did you change the way you act?

In my case I just stopped acting male and everything fell into place. I didn't change a thing really except for how I viewed the many challenges ahead. I actually became a much better person.

Did people react differently to you?

Being able to pass so easy they did not. I feel and am treated just like a cis female. Men in particular started to do nice things for me like opening doors and lifting heavy objects for me. I feel normal, relaxed and happy in public now for the first time in my life.

Do I have to start talking in a deep voice?

It helps with passing, but it is entirely up to you. Whatever you are comfortable with go for it.

I totally grapple with this one, so thanks for opening this thread.

If like me one doesn't pass, it just seems so unlikely that RLE pre-HRT is going to work. Of course I could ask my friends and colleagues to use my preferred name and pronouns, but I'd say most of them will still not see me as the guy I am, but as the woman who wants to be treated like a guy. And I suspect that's going to make a big difference in how I would be treated.

I feel scared about what other people will think of me I know I shouldn't care but sometimes its hard not to. I already dress like a guy but I'm not sure what the next step would be. Maybe its cutting my hair (I'm scared of what it would look like) and I have a deep voice anyway so I don't think I'll need to change that. I just don't understand how cutting my hair will make me feel like a guy. I think I'll still feel like a girl and I really want to be seen and treated like a guy.

That's the thing - for me, the concept of RLE is tied too tightly to the idea of "normalizing" your gender expression etc. to conform to the expectations of society. In this logic, only if you pass you earn the right to be treated as your preferred gender.

This is not to say that the desire to pass is wrong, it's absolutely legit!, but I just hate how it always seems that we have to "earn" our gender by proving to others that we really are who we claim to be by mechanisms that are not adequate.

End of rant. Sorry But you shouldn't feel forced to cut your hair to prove something to others. You should only cut it if you think it makes you feel more comfortable with yourself!

Quote from: Canl on October 27, 2014, 09:22:19 AM
I feel scared about what other people will think of me I know I shouldn't care but sometimes its hard not to. I already dress like a guy but I'm not sure what the next step would be. Maybe its cutting my hair (I'm scared of what it would look like) and I have a deep voice anyway so I don't think I'll need to change that. I just don't understand how cutting my hair will make me feel like a guy. I think I'll still feel like a girl and I really want to be seen and treated like a guy.

I remember one F2M years ago I met through a friend and he had long hair and big full beard and damn he looked sexy

Hiya Adrian

I wouldn't say it's a case of earning or normalising one's gender in other people's eyes, but rather feeling comfortable with it in our own eyes.

Masses has been written on the themes of RLE and passing on this forum.  Some people pass fully and are happy.  Some also pass fully but are unhappy.  Another group doesn't pass and is keenly aware of it, and a fourth group doesn't pass and doesn't care.  I am sure there are more.

Speaking to my psychologists, if they have a transitioning patient who is happy with her/himself in their new gender under RLE, then their work is largely done, regardless of what society in general may think.  I'm not saying that we need them as the adjudicators, though.

Julia

Hello Julia

Yeah, maybe I'm overreacting .

The thing is, generally I'm pretty happy with who I am in terms of my identity (I do have body dysphoria though), but I always feel that for the larger society in which I live, this is not enough. I only get what I want (which is to be treated, addressed,  and accepted as a guy) if I change my appearance.

I think my real issue is not so much with RLE but with the way in which society "grants" gender. And the fact that we still treat people differently based on what their gender is.

I'll stop spamming this thread now - apologies to the OP [emoji15]

RLE is a social construct to make sure you can adhere to another social construct, namely binary gender roles. I live my half man, half woman existence every day. It IS real life, I'm just not doing it to satisfy a doctor's requirements. I believe the RLE requirement will be dropped, possibly at the next rewriting of the WPATH standards.

I want to cut my hair because I don't like my hair how it is right now but I just don't know what it would look like if I cut it. Anyway, I want other people to treat me like a man. How will they do that if I look like a female?

Sometimes I'm treated as a man, sometimes I'm treated as a woman. You really can't control how someone sees you or responds to you. You can correct them (gently) and clarify how you are to be addressed, but in the end, they see what they see. Hair grows back, you really can't make any permanent mistakes there. I hear a lot of the guys here saying that a buzz cut makes matters worse, it really depends on your head size and shape, hairline, etc.

In the UK RLE is needed to advance in treatment most of the time.  In terms of what they're looking for is that you're living in a male role, that is, you've changed your name to a male one, and working/studying/volunteering as male to show that you can handle living that way.  They need to know that you're ready for taking that step into male society.

If you don't like the way your hair is now anyway, then cut it.  It always grows back if you don't like it, and then you can try again with something else.

You're already a guy, your physicality is irrelevant.  I've not started testosterone or had any surgery, but I am still male.  I'm seen as male by everyone.  The majority of the people that I spend time with don't even now any different, they just think I'm a short, scrawny, young looking guy, nothing more.  I was fortunate to move away shortly after coming out though.  When I occasionally see other people who did know me prior to coming out they just treat me as another one of the lads.

I found RLE to be useful prior to me going full time. I used that time to practice  my mannerisms and work on my makeup and build my courage and my confidence while presenting as female, and I had a safe place to retreat to if things got too scary. It would have been very scary to go full time without that experience for me.


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I've been turning this over in my head, and I think I'll say that RLE is both one of the most and least relevant things we are obliged to do.  It's hugely relevant because changing one's gender is, for the most part, a massive step - emotionally, psychologically, physically, legally, socially.   And it's not very relevant because, by the time we start RLE, many/most of us are ready for our new existence, and RLE just gives us some kind of "license to be".

I was one of those people who pretty much abandoned my birth gender the day I started HRT.  And 3 months later I became a girl at work as well and that's when RLE "officially" began.  I would say that what it represents is crucial - a moment of rebirth, or birth even.

Hope some of this makes sense...

Hugs
Jullia

Over here nobody asks for RLE for hormones any longer, usually one year of RLE is required for SRS/GRS though.

I don't really object to the RLE requirement for the surgery, I think it's probably a good idea and since nobody can really tell from the outside and most people have enough to deal with just with the hormones and going full time.

Going full time is definitely possible before hormones but remember that RLE is not about passing 100% of the time, it's about presenting as you want and knowing that you have the strength to deal with any adversity that might come your way.

Well lets take it from SOC:


Rationale for a preoperative, 12-month
experience of living in an identity-congruent
gender role. The criterion noted above for some
types of genital surgeries—i.e., that patients
engage in 12 continuous months of living in a
gender role that is congruent with their gender
identity—is based on expert clinical consensus
that this experience provides ample opportunity
for patients to experience and socially adjust
in their desired gender role, before undergoing
irreversible surgery. As noted in section VII,
the social aspects of changing one's gender role
are usually challenging—often more so than the
physical aspects. Changing gender role can have
profound personal and social consequences, and
the decision to do so should include an awareness
of what the familial, interpersonal, educational,
vocational, economic, and legal challenges
are likely to be, so that people can function
successfully in their gender role.

Taken from http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/IJT%20SOC,%20V7.pdf