I am deeply wounded by feelings of bitterness with the church.  Seems like they love to throw the binary barb out about a man and a woman in relationship, or condemning all forms of homosexuality/lesbianism, with all the stuff i don't agree with there.

So I lose the whole thing based on a microteaching.   Even though literal translations and full scripture seems to indicate we have acceptance, we are in a different category, yet, I can't accept that we are not part of the overall LGBT unmbrella and the angerspeach or the "you are deliberately sinning, change or die in sin, or you cant feel like this, so you have to be alone the rest of your life, or, trans is nothing more than a sexual carnal pleasure".... the list goes on, those are my trigger darts.

How do we release the bitterness so we can maintain a close relationship to Christ and be Spirit filled?  To allow His light to shine from the diamond core of trans, our hearts, our souls, without the shame and condemnation foisted onto us?

How do we overcome.....

It seems the cross of trans we carry is one of bitterness, anger, rejection.  It should not be so, we are people of light and joy and outreach, pulling each other out of the hell of self condemnation and depression and suicide.  That is a high calling, to touch other lives, and reveal that the source of that powerful compassion is straight from the heart of Jesus, of God, of the Holy Spirit, who wishes to indwell us and carry us through this predestined plan He had for our lives.

Thoughts my dears on how to heal this hurt?

Blessings dear ones, from Satinjoy.  Nails out heart wide open.   

I quite simply do not worry about anyone else, their opinions or judgments. I have a personal relationship with G-D and that is more than enough for me. Worrying about others views takes away from your personal worship. I honestly feel I am being led to transition so that is how I am at peace and mental relaxation. The hypocrites can just talk all they want as one greater than me will judge them some day.

My question back at you is why are you ALWAYS concerned with the opinions of others or how they see and judge you?

I'm always at a loss why Christ and God Almighty get the blame for what humans have freely chosen to do.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on November 09, 2014, 11:49:05 AM
I quite simply do not worry about anyone else, their opinions or judgments. I have a personal relationship with G-D and that is more than enough for me. Worrying about others views takes away from your personal worship. I honestly feel I am being led to transition so that is how I am at peace and mental relaxation. The hypocrites can just talk all they want as one greater than me will judge them some day.

My question back at you is why are you ALWAYS concerned with the opinions of others or how they see and judge you?

That is a good question Lady Jessica.  And I don't know the answer to it.

Hope you are well.

You are in a strong enough place where it doesn't bother you then?  It bothers me,  not that you can handle it, but that it eats at me.  How did you get there?  I do agree with you here, by the way.  And am glad you can feel as you do.  I am quite sure that I am who I am, all of it, and that there was a purpose for that.  But the other stuff still hurts.  Did you go through the bullying thing in school or have verbal abuse in the home?  Or were you fortunate not to have that, or to have learned to stand up for yourself?  Where do you get that strength to be self-approving, regardless of the (foolish) opinions of the Cis?  How did you reach  this place of not caring what others think?

I'm having a hard time with it too.

I was a devout Christian for pretty much my entire early adult life. But ever since transitioning, I just feel disillusioned with the church, because now having lived with people who they label as "sinners," I realized that there's nothing at all wrong with them, they're just doing what makes them happy, and to tell them that they need to change would seriously be unethical.

So yeah, I'm having a hard time reconciling all the times that I told myself I was a freak that needed to get over every single thing about me that made me "different," a "sinner," and be perfect, and transition where I basically had to admit that no amount of praying would ever cure my dysphoria, and that all that trying to pray it away ever did was bring me more and more misery. Plus how can I possibly view transition as a sin when it made me feel normal for the first time in my entire life, after 10 straight years of trying to pray it away and feeling like a disgusting freak who was missing something that every single other person seemed to have?

I can't anymore. But at the same time, every time I try to say something about acceptance, about how we're all sinners but it's okay, God's grace is sufficient for us, our job is to forgive, not to judge, someone else runs smack into me with other Biblical verses about how we're not supposed to even eat with so-called brothers who are immoral, and how yes, some people are just pre-programmed to sin, they're vessels prepared for destruction so that God' mercy can be shown on others, and I seriously just don't know what to think anymore.

It's basically destroyed my spiritual life. Because I don't know what to believe anymore. I can't condone the same "looking from over there as someone who has NEVER gone through this" view that reparative therapy and celibacy and perfect holiness are the answer. And yes, I am bitter that I wasted so many years telling myself that being trans was sinful, and all of the hatred that I poured out on myself because I couldn't change who I was.

Again, I don't know anymore. I used to pray all the time, but it's hard now, aside from being thankful when things go right and asking for help when thing go wrong. I can't seem to reconcile being LGBT with being Christian. And it doesn't help that now I'm willing to bet not a SINGLE member of the church I was baptized in would accept me, they'd expect me to de-transition and go back to being miserable and emotionally brain-dead to be "acceptable" to them again.



I don't know, maybe it's just me. I have a hard time having my own opinions. When I say something and it doesn't get approval from anyone, even if I personally believe it's true, I have a hard time saying it at all.

this is my last reply for this topic because the trigger is deep . God and Christ are not the ones to shun

Quote from: stephaniec on November 09, 2014, 11:55:04 AM
I'm always at a loss why Christ and God Almighty get the blame for what humans have freely chosen to do.

I agree...

I try and walk with God each day, and surely talk with him.
I am very upset and angry with the teachings some churches adhere to, condemning us while they're front rows are filled with adulterers, cheats and liers..
But that isn't my God, and I can't let those people dictate my beliefs by they're words of stupidity..
The true nature of God is what saves me, and keeps me away from those misguided people and churches..

Quote from: Mark3 on November 09, 2014, 01:06:25 PM
I agree...

I try and walk with God each day, and surely talk with him.
I am very upset and angry with the teachings some churches adhere to, condemning us while they're front rows are filled with adulterers, cheats and liers..
But that isn't my God, and I can't let those people dictate my beliefs by they're words of stupidity..
The true nature of God is what saves me, and keeps me away from those misguided people and churches..

ditto      (sorry needed  to reply)

Quote from: stephaniec on November 09, 2014, 12:52:32 PM
this is my last reply for this topic because the trigger is deep . God and Christ are not the ones to shun

No they surely are not.  They are everything to me.  The relationship to Christ is paramount to me.  The most important thing in my life.  With direct visions to me and my wife telling us to hang in when I hit the wall and started transition.

I was a strong non-denominational church goer for years, was even nominated by 75% of the membership to elder, but declined. Eventually I tired of the vitriolic commentaries by the pastor about homosexuals and wondered if he had some skeletons in his own closet as he protested too much. There was always some rock throwing by members who disagreed with someone else's lifestyle and used their own twisted version of scripture taken out of context to justify themselves. This is not unlike what occasionally goes on here at Susan's and it is indeed the fallen human nature at work. It happens in any organization and is to be expected as none of us are perfect or ever will be.

Eventually one of the elders was discovered to be bi-sexual and was caught in a sexual tryst with another man. This elder had a devoted wife and a darling teenage daughter who were devastated when he committed suicide after being put out of the church in disgrace. Finally I quit attending church meetings as I am well along in the knowledge of God and His Christ who probably greive over some of the human goings on done in His name. My spouse and I know that Jesus said, "Where two or more are gathered in my name, I am there also," meaning we are the church! Eventually that pastor was accused of some unseemly sexual conduct with upwards of thirty young male members, and he denied it vehemently as his hand picked elders stood behind him. It became a media event and fractured the church. This happens all the time in Christian churches when a pastor and the leadership get too full of themselves. It's unfortunate and tends to give the Savior a black eye in the estimation of onlookers, but mankind's sinfulness is man's problem, so God provided an answer for each individual who acknowledges their own faults and asks Christ into their lives.

Those throwing the stones at transgender and gay people are not perfect themselves, they smoke, drink, curse, steal, cheat and so on, so they too like the scripture says, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" So let's say that a church is a hospital where hypocrites can learn to see themselves in the light of God and hopefully some will be changed. Meanwhile, we can not and should not harbor any high expectations of any human being, because invariably they will come up tarnished just like you and me.

Carrie I do not believe being trans is sin.  Not at all.  Not when I still feel wired into Christ.  And I do.  I have a sticky of an auditory vision from Him that said "trust me."  it has gotten me through much.  My wife hada full body vision and He said to her "fear not".  All related to me being a transsexual person.

The churches error, not His.

Shantel, great stuff girl.

Shan, I suppose I've come to the same revelation, that the whole "holiness" doctrine is the problem, the one of having to be perfect, of somehow Christians being these perfect sinless people who are better and wiser than those "sinners" that they shun because they're saved, that once they were wicked like them but now they're perfect, and they have to act as such to be "real Christians." My church spent a lot of time talking about how not everyone who is "saved" is actually saved because they've seen no change in their life, they're still just as sinful as ever. And they do such a good job of living up to that "perfect" sinless image. So maybe I really have started to believe that there are some people at the top of the church leadership who really can live perfect completely-changed sinless lives, where somehow I've failed to do the same, and thus maybe I'm really not "saved" after all.

I don't know. In my heart I know I'm okay, that God's grace is sufficient for me, but every single time I try to explain why to others, I feel like I'm condemning other people, trying to bring them down to my level, in order to do it.

You've said what I wanted to say, but couldn't. Thank you for your wisdom.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on November 09, 2014, 01:53:19 PM
Shan, I suppose I've come to the same revelation, that the whole "holiness" doctrine is the problem, the one of having to be perfect, of somehow Christians being these perfect sinless people who are better and wiser than those "sinners" that they shun because they're saved, that once they were wicked but now they're perfect, and they have to act as such to be "real Christians." My church spent a lot of time talking about how not everyone who is "saved" is actually saved because they've seen no change in their life, they're still just as sinful as ever. And they do such a good job of living up to that "perfect" sinless image. So maybe I really have started to believe believe that there are some people at the top of the church leadership who really can live perfect completely-changed sinless lives, where somehow I've failed to do the same, and thus maybe I'm really not "saved" after all.

I don't know. In my heart I know I'm okay, that God's grace is sufficient for me, but every single time I try to explain why to others, I feel like I'm condemning other people, trying to bring them down to my level, in order to do it.

You've said what I wanted to say, but couldn't. Thank you for your wisdom.

You've hit on the bottom line there sweetheart! The scripture says, "there is none righteous, no not one and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of G-d" So that speaks to those who want to look down their noses at anyone anywhere for any reason and try to create a polemic (Us the saved vs them the sinners) it just isn't so. You're in good hands honey and it sure isn't Allstate!

So, it seems that the issue is bitterness with People, as opposed to church, and with specific doctrine, and with legalism, which strangles.

I am all about relational Christianity, the relationship being with Him and the resulting overflow of love and Spirit touching other people and inspiring them to find Him, and forgiveness and the place prepared for us in the next world.

I  think anything that interferes with that one on one relationship with Him is a bad thing, a damaging thing, while anything that encourages us to rely on Him and His strength, living in and through us, surrending to Him, is totally good.  That could have nothing to do with trans but could be interfered with or strengthened by by our own perception of trans, and the peoples perception of trans.

And the best place to express this seems to be in here, with you, since you understand what it is to be who you and I are.  As He also understands since He engineered us, mind, body and spirit.   So we could draw close to Him.

So the separating doctrines of the church do hurt me because it hurts both me and you and I have a serious problem with us gettng hurt, its like I took it for 50 years and have snapped and had enough.

So if our candles dim, I hope we can encourage each  other to reignite in our relationship to the Christ that we understand, however we understand or experience Him.  Especially as trans I think it is important, and i have been remiss in not being in this part of the forum.  If there is anything I have to offer in the way of encouragement.  Hopefully someone gets some kind of help out of it.

Jessica my question does remain, how did you get so bulletproof against others opinions?  Was it because you have one of the toughest jobs ever, as a lifesaving angel in the real world, and that gave you the toughness to overcome anything?

whatever it is, God bless you for having it.

Years ago I had misgivings about attending church services, there was something about the goody two shoes types that grated on my nerves. The guys in the cheap leisure suits with the big bible in the left hand so the right one was free to shake hands, and the plastic Howdy Doody grins on their faces made it clear to me that there was a certain phonyness about them long with the trite sayings to sound religious, but I knew it wasn't about Christ or any reflection of Him, it was just stupid people practicing their pious baloney and it always pissed some of them off because I didn't buy into it myself and being me, I called them on it. Just be real!

It's the phonyness that is a big turn off for a lot of people who might be interested in discovering and having fellowship with their creator on a personal basis. It's these same characters that are throwing the slings and arrows of their self righteous indignation at trans and gay people. Jesus once said, "Those who are with me gather and those who are against me scatter!"

Quote from: Satinjoy on November 09, 2014, 02:21:30 PM
So, it seems that the issue is bitterness with People, as opposed to church, and with specific doctrine, and with legalism, which strangles.

...

As He also understands since He engineered us, mind, body and spirit.   So we could draw close to Him.

And therein lies the first truth - the people, who unfortunately manipulate for reasons of power and control.

I am not a believer in any way, but respects how others live.  I believe and adhere to some common moral precepts relating to respect and care for others, and I think we can pretty much all agree about what is morally right, or at least morally neutral, even if we personally don't agree with it. 

When I realised I was attracted to men, my religion condemned it, and when I also recognised that I was trangender, I could not accept anyone's opposition to something totally out of my control, something intrinsically part of me and which I was born with, and which would harm nobody.  For me these were reasons to conclude that formal religion was the wrong thing for me. 

But ultimately, if you do believe, the relationship only ever needs to be between you and G-d; the intermediaries are superfluous.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on November 09, 2014, 03:14:23 PM
And therein lies the first truth - the people, who unfortunately manipulate for reasons of power and control.

I am not a believer in any way, but respects how others live.  I believe and adhere to some common moral precepts relating to respect and care for others, and I think we can pretty much all agree about what is morally right, or at least morally neutral, even if we personally don't agree with it. 

When I realised I was attracted to men, my religion condemned it, and when I also recognised that I was trangender, I could not accept anyone's opposition to something totally out of my control, something intrinsically part of me and which I was born with, and which would harm nobody.  For me these were reasons to conclude that formal religion was the wrong thing for me. 

But ultimately, if you do believe, the relationship only ever needs to be between you and G-d; the intermediaries are superfluous.

That's been my take on it Julia, and pretty much what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well!

For us, my wife and i found moving onto a different church helped significantly. It seemed both of us had gotten to a point of self-loathing and couldn't bring ourselves to go back to our church.

Eventually our desire to return to church & fellowship brought us to Google LGBT churches in the area. We found a wonderful new fellowship to call our own. (: They even have a monthly open support group for Trans & SOFFA.

I don't understand why some churches shun LGBT either. Even if they think we are sinners, Christ surrounded himself with sinners. In fact, sinners are pretty much the foundation of the church and aren't we all sinners anyway?