I was already girly as hell before hormones. I wasn't passable before them but I certainly never got "sir'd". If you act, dress & present in a very feminine manner, people won't be able to call you anything besides "she" because it mind focks them. That was my experience anyways haha You're either a girl or a very very girly guy (either of which I had no problem with).  I did have many people ask me what I preferred to be called though which I obviously responded with "she". The hormones were necessary though. They were necessary for me to stop my male puberty from continuing & to begin developing into a girl. Now, even if people do know I'm a tgirl (I honestly don't care), whether they see me as a girl, EXTREMELY girly guy or just a "->-bleeped-<-" it doesn't bother me. I've come to the point that I'm content being myself I'm happy & I'm just allowing the hormones to do their job because I'm just going to keep looking girlier. I think hormones are essential & part of the process but I think a huge part is just being happy in general & content with who & where you are. After all, no one cares if you're feeling crappy but you. Might as well be happy, right?

It is hard work being a women. Even cis women know this.

I agree hormones are only a small part. But of all the things you do during transition, hormones effect far more details all by themselves than any other thing.

They effect physical and mental things. The physical shouldn't be understated but it is not a golden ticket, still... muscle atrophy, body hair loss, subcutaneous fat, breast development, fat migration, changes to the face, easier tucking, changes in skin tone... it all adds up.

Yeah, I can still pass as male, although I do male fail now from time to time, which is new. Passing as female takes practice but I am seeing great results. Yay!!!

Posture, wardrobe, makeup, eyebrows, voice, gestures and stuff really do make a huge difference too.

No. I think hormones gives hope though, but its not everything. I think of hormones like a ticket to escape to a better city or country... but its only a ticket. Yet without that ticket you are trap and if you go on that plane without the ticket youll get caught and sent home. But once you get to the new city its up to you if you will thrive. Also the longer we wait for that ticket the older the plane becomes... and planes dont last forever. Every plane is different though... even if its old it still works... but for other planes... the route never existed to that city.  Routes can change too we may settle for less. we may have to settle in our home city... escaping into unhealthy but yet coping choices. Yet... even then that homecity will eventually leave us on the street... and we starve. Theres only so much we can do.

HRT may not be a magic pill, but I wouldn't be where I am today without them.

I agree. HRT isn't some magic pill and I too see too many (on other media also) trans women say they need HRT as soon ASAP. Although, I also watched before and after videos of people who already took HRT although they were not out yet and you could see that eventually, they would be outted because of the HRT.

Even the emotions which change while on HRT I think are partly overrated. I do believe although that it makes you feel more at ease, more comfortable with your body. I mean.. I see my young nephew playing with a box with what he has to put shapes trough a certain hole. He gets frustrated when it doesn't fit or gets upset but basically that is the same feeling I got with my body. As if I have been trying to push a square trough a circle my whole life and I cannot wait to just get the shapes in, and stop playing that frustrating game. I am rambling like no tomorrow and probably not making much sense > _ <.

Not sure how and when exactly but two years ago I started opening up for my feelings. Psychically changes are really just my hair getting longer but because I already felt more at ease, my expression changed, the way I move and anything. I can't judge other than what I have seen of HRT but I really wonder if HRT will still really do that much for me now . Even with emotions. I remember when my grandma died I couldn't even cry. It isn't that I was not sad I just never really could cry and let out my emotions while now I can tear up while watching a movie with a big group ._.

I also have to add. Some people will see the real you... I attracted guys at a point in my life ((prior summer))just because of myself. I didnt act feminine but I was undeniably feminine... I cant explain it. It was magical a little bit. The reason was because there were hardly any real women... so supply demand... and I guess my charm. I dont know what. Charm. Guys would open doors for me be happy to see me... one guy became weird on me and told me something... but he like me. I cant fault him on that. To this day... guys from that place still see me in that light.

I had short hair.. masculine clothing.. but I did make my face look feminine with oils and perfumes. I look really pretty one day.. it was through mineral oil and hydrogen peroxide. I told people I use dish washer soap in my hair to bleach it. Yet that wad it... but I saw the look of attraction in guys. I felt like Scarlet Ohara. Surprisingly no guy fought it if they were into to me... the most secure one of all at the end of the day never judge me... he was like were out of here. (Since we graduated). I never saw him into me but I think he knew the effect i had on guys...

One guy ever said he was a c-blocker when I was shopping with a friend of mine. But I was with a friend. One guy sat at my table just because of me but went away... a week later he gave me a chocolate ice cream bar. Another guy gave me a hersey bar in front of everyone... in front of females. But a lot of other guys said "Its ...my name". I had a barber give me a free haircut that week.. but i tip him regardless.

That summer.. i became Regina George. I dont know how or why... besides a little mineral oil and the peroxide i look male. Yet my eyes.. resemble a female. I acted blonde too at times.

I dont have it much right now but I am not trying at all at the moment. Yet every once in while I see the look and then I say I still got it.

I think HRT's part it plays is quite dependent on the individual.

I still present as male however HRT completely changed my figure I am a lucky one. This however gives me an interesting point of view as I try my hardest to keep my mannerisms male and I still get called Sisi(I am from Africa its how the general population equates to mam). It is only when i speak that people realize I am male.

In my opinion there is three things you need to pass: Voice(by far one of the most important details as people judge you on first opinions and your voice is a powerful indicator), mannerisms(well this is pretty obvious as if you look male talk male they will call you sir), appearance(by this i don't mean your figure, I mean how you present yourself). I don't believe you need breasts or a pretty figure as humans are evolved being and we are not born perfect, therefore you will always find ciswoman of all shapes and sizes. My half sister has a very masculine face but not once has her gender been called into question so why should yours if you present yourself as you are.

Again it is only my opinion.
The worlds not perfect so nothing works as well as it is read.

Omg. I just realize I was happ`ier back then because people accepted/treated me in a feminine light.

I was reading my old posts right now lol. Now Im reliving it through my memories... i had a reason to exist then.

I cope best when I try to act a little feminine. The past week i been depress more than ever but thats because I am repressing myself at the moment. I act more masculine than ever... so i could fit in at my job.

Even though i may hate everything in life being a little fem allows me to thrive.

I didnt connect that until now.

I think I have to disagree...

HRT worked miracles for me. For the face and breasts especially. But it took at least two years before it made me pass without makeup, and it continues to benefit my appearance. HRT works very slow and it can take years upon years for it's full effect. I am still changing after 4 years. The last two years were like HRT "fine-tuning".

Pills that can literally change your body shape and mental well being?  I'd say those are pretty magical.  Its a slow magic though, not some fairy dust that gives you wings instantaneously.

It isn't like hrt will make you magically pass, but my face is totally shaped differently since being on HRT so I have to imagine it has had a massive impact on my passability. Ignoring other things outside of HRT isn't good, it doesn't work without effort in other areas but, I dont know of people are giving her too much credit.

In my case, I think it made all the difference, especially due to my age. It helped me gain some weight, made my face a little less ugly and more feminine. It got to where I was ma'amed while wearing dirty male work clothes. It also got rid of the big bald spot at the back of my head.  Sure, the other stuff helps, but hrt was the main thing for me.

I've been saying this for years. If I had a nickel for every time someone asked me about my pellet HRT regimen because the "results are so good".... I know they are referring to the visual/passing part every time.

And every time, I am left explaining pretty much exactly this. HRT is one slice of the pie, and a rather small one at that. You've all said it many times already throughout the thread so I don't feel the need to repeat it.

But I do want to add... Passability comes down to what you put into it. For some it is indeed probably effortless, as if they were just simply born to pass. Those are the VERY lucky ones. Probably 2-5% of MtF have this experience. I do not put myself into this category. I put a crap-ton of work into my presentation from the get-go. What you see in my avatar is the result of hundreds (if not thousands) of hours of effort spent to attain an evolving goal of eventually passing as female. The speed of my result is a direct correlation to how intensely bad I wanted it. My motivation propelled me more than any amount of E alone could have. The knocker is, yes I think the E helped my motivation levels. So it does definitely play a part.

For most of us, what it will come down to is motivation. That is the key concept. No money & need surgery? Get a job, save, make sacrifices, be brave and cunning on your journey. Divide and conquer. Stop at nothing. Laugh in the face of discouragement. Speaking from personal experience, that is likely what it's going to take.

No amount of HRT was going to turn this dude into a passable Jenny. It came from within

We can't say that HRT is the everything for sure. The best thing it did for me is having physical and emotional feelings.

But I must say that HRT did nearly the biggest job as passing for me. I would have never been able to pass with a bed head and pyjama without HRT.

Well some people barely get physical changes with HRT and ofcourse you can't know what will happen so you can't count on that and must in any way plan without it. I was afraid at start as the first 6 months was like ... "blank" only softened skins, a bit less body hair and emotionals changes but I was still passing well with good clothes, make up and a good hair cut. With those minimum change I was still able to live as myself with some efforts.

I was also talking solely facial changes... but I gotta say, now that others have chimed in on this point, visible curves and big breasts with decent cleavage does make it so I could probably still be sporting stubble and get "ma'am." HRT is absolutely the reason my body looks female (barring the downstairs bits since those I paid for, obviously).

Quote from: Jenna Marie on November 10, 2014, 11:00:43 AM
I was also talking solely facial changes... but I gotta say, now that others have chimed in on this point, visible curves and big breasts with decent cleavage does make it so I could probably still be sporting stubble and get "ma'am." HRT is absolutely the reason my body looks female (barring the downstairs bits since those I paid for, obviously).

I would have to agree that most of the changes I've noticed from HRT have been welcomed body changes. I think that some others might agree that face usually says the most about passing, but I'm sure this is different for everyone as well.

It is the little things that count, and HRT does exactly that. And it does count!

I would never pass without HRT. Facial hair removal, longer hair and makeup would do nothing to me, except for making me look ridiculous.

Cis girls can pass from nothing but lack of t and e in their system , like just their ovaries doing it , it was important for me , for my body shape , and it helped a lot in how i felt inside too , wanted to be a girl that put no makeup and 0 efforts and still pass like some cis womens can.

Hmmm interesting as I do to feel HRT is integral to the full package  experience and integration into female life.

There is another way to look at the question or scenario and it is what if you took all the female hormones away from a CIS female how would she act, emotionally relate, feel about her body and generally get on with life. I think there would some interesting moments and understanding in a totally different way of looking at this maybe.

Just a thought!

Hrt is for hormone replacement therapy , for me its my "ovaries" in a way , because they give me what ovaries are producing because i was born without ovaries , ovaries replacement . That there is less estrogens in the sytem of cis women is what happen at menopause , and hrt medicine ( estrogen , progesterones , ... pills , gells , ... ) was in part created for the womens who wanted to keep having hormones despite theyr lack of production by the body at menopause.

Edit : i just mean for me its important and i wouldv prefer to have ovaries than to take hrt.