I never walked around sans shirt. Never. I was too obese at one point and now that I'm skinny I have definite breast growth from HRT.

I remember the only time when my parents came to Australia from the UK to visit me. I took them on a house boat trip and Mum took a pic of me walking through the bush just wearing shorts, she loved that pic and had it framed in her house. I hated it and burnt the copy she sent me.

She knew that I was trans* but could never accept it, I think the pic helped her 'validate' that she had the son that she so desired, while it just triggered my dysphoria completely.

PS
Just posted this and then looked at the post, seeing my avatar and had the immediate thought, no way was I ever a guy

Firstly I've always said that guys walking around in public (beaches, swimming pools are ok) without a shirt on is just so off putting for me. To me I can tell how full of themselves they are and want nothing to do with them. Now that topless selfie is a thing, chances are you send me a topless selfie you'll be blocked before you know it.

Before I came out I never went without a shirt/top, I was skinny, hated my body and then I started high school, which I had bruises everyday, so the top stayed on.

Up until maybe my 18 months of HRT started in June, summer for us is Dec, Jan & Feb I still had tiny's so my I would wear a singlet at the beach, 18 months into HRT I would rock the bikini top and have ever since.

I have been to topless beaches, even ones that aren't and removed the top, only around my female friends and people I don't know.

Miss top freedom? Well, let's see. The reason why I can't walk around topless? Because I have breasts. Tiny little ones, yes, but fully sensate, beautiful, amazing, wonderful, fantastic breasts. Something I've always wanted. I look down there and am awestruck at how lucky I am to have these incredible body parts.

Er ... what was the question again?

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 16, 2014, 05:57:00 PM
Miss top freedom? Well, let's see. The reason why I can't walk around topless? Because I have breasts. Tiny little ones, yes, but fully sensate, beautiful, amazing, wonderful, fantastic breasts. Something I've always wanted. I look down there and am awestruck at how lucky I am to have these incredible body parts.

Er ... what was the question again?

Suzi you totally make me smile

I still have top freedom... it's called going to nudist camps.

In all seriousness, though, nah, I never really cared about the ability to be shirtless in public. I always wore a shirt unless I was swimming. And even though I did use that privilege when I went swimming, frankly I'd rather have the freedom to wear a bikini bottom or tight thin athletic shorts than the freedom to not wear a shirt. Male swimming trunks, and male shorts in general, always felt needlessly cumbersome and hot to me. So it's a trade-off. Yes, you have to deal with sweaty boobs because of the extra layer on top, but you also don't have to deal with a ton of stuffy hot air trapped in your upper leg area because of the needless length and bulk of male shorts.

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 16, 2014, 05:57:00 PM
The reason why I can't walk around topless? Because I have breasts.

Now see, that's exactly my point. Why should *having breasts* preclude anyone from being comfortable? If I had had the same topfreedom pre-surgery, there's a pretty good chance I wouldn't have felt so much of an urge to radically change my body.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on November 17, 2014, 03:04:07 AM...I'd rather have the freedom to wear a bikini bottom or tight thin athletic shorts than the freedom to not wear a shirt. Male swimming trunks, and male shorts in general, always felt needlessly cumbersome and hot to me. So it's a trade-off. Yes, you have to deal with sweaty boobs because of the extra layer on top, but you also don't have to deal with a ton of stuffy hot air trapped in your upper leg area because of the needless length and bulk of male shorts.

Oh, agreed*. And at 5'3", my stubby legs look absolutely ridiculous in men's shorts, anyway, so I don't even bother.  Few cis people seem to think about it much, but when it comes to freedom of expression, women seem to have such greater breadth than men do (in Western society, that is) - from clothing to accessories to vocal intonation to hand gestures. Whenever I feel pressure to try to pass in some way, like when I'm shirtless and being studied for it, I automatically try to "wooden" my movements and flatten my intonation. And it feels just as constricting, in my opinion. I like to be EMOTIVE! and FREE!

Carrie Liz, what if society had said you could wear those shorts  - or that skirt - without having to present as a woman? Would your dysphoria have still been as pressing, do you think? (That's a very personal question - it's not meant to be directed only at Carrie Liz).

*To be fair, I don't think the comparison between men's thighs and women's chests is entirely fair through, in my opinion, since there are no *laws* requiring men to keep their knees covered...)

I've always been timid and trying to hide my chest while outside growing up but I think that was partially embarrassment - as a MAAB I managed to have little pointy knobby breast buds start when I was 11 that didn't really go anywhere. Granted I was meek before that anyway.

I don't miss being shirtless in public. The sun is actively trying to ruin my lovely monitor glow, and shaving my legs is more like a once or twice a year thing. I like having boobs, I like people admiring them, and just because I don't go out topless doesn't mean I can't romp around my house topless...

... I just take the stairs a little more gingerly now. ^_^;;;;

Quote from: Vestyn on November 17, 2014, 07:47:51 AM
Carrie Liz, what if society had said you could wear those shorts  - or that skirt - without having to present as a woman? Would your dysphoria have still been as pressing, do you think? (That's a very personal question - it's not meant to be directed only at Carrie Liz).

Pre-transition, I basically said "okay, you know what? I don't have to be a girl to freely express myself. To hell with what anyone thinks, I'm wearing short-shorts again, and I'm acting like I want to act." And I did start freely expressing myself in feminine ways... wore short shorts, wore tighter-fitting v-neck t-shirts made from softer material, started shaving my legs and arms again, started wearing panties, (which are WAY softer than the equivalent men's briefs,) and I started acting in a softer manner, using greater vocal range, intentionally being sweeter and more open to people, and basically doing EVERYTHING that I could to try and act exactly how I wanted and dress how I wanted.

It still wasn't enough. For some people who think they have dysphoria, maybe it might just be because of the bulls*** societal gender restrictions placed on them, but in my case it really was because there was no way for me to be comfortable in a male body. Even when I was acting and dressing exactly how I wanted, I still felt dysphoria about the male bulk of my body, my muscles, my thicker skin, my genitals, my blocky shape, my sex-drive, my emotions, and being treated as male socially. So basically I'd exhausted my options and the only choice left was to transition.

It did ease my dysphoria somewhat, (and my dysphoria wasn't as bad back in 8th grade, back when I was still singing soprano in choir, wearing short-shorts, shaving, acting much more effeminately, and was still in the early stages of puberty,) but regardless of all of that, the dysphoria was still there. I was still wishing that I was a girl back then. It's just that once I stopped being openly effeminate for the sake of not being teased, I added a feeling of being stifled, of being unable to express myself at all, on top of the gender dysphoria. Which turned it from a lingering nagging "I wish" thought into something that made me feel completely trapped and depressed.

I think school/gym class was the worst. I some how forgot my gym clothes the days I knew they were playing sports were they had two teams..........skins and shirts.

Nope I always felt naked like other girls... I still do lol it's not like I have noticeable breast anyway XD I hated it so much when I was forced to do be shirtless for swimming at school... Fortunately this is my last year

Quote from: Serena ♡ on November 17, 2014, 02:53:17 PM
Nope I always felt naked like other girls... I still do lol it's not like I have noticeable breast anyway XD I hated it so much when I was forced to do be shirtless for swimming at school... Fortunately this is my last year

After this one from Serena. Is it just something we feel? I didn't get anything until 13 (Yeah a little bit of a freak of nature. Don't care though) and there is no reason why I felt like I did and have to wear a shirt at 9 or 10 years old. Must be the same with hair length too. Am I my parent's son(Ughh ) or am I and we way more than that?

I always hated going shirtless.  When I was swimming, it always felt wrong.  When I was picked last for basketball teams, I always seemed to get stuck on the "skins" team.   I tried surfing because at least you could wear a wetsuit.  When I was a real porker, I didn't even want my wife to see me shirtless, even with B-cup moobs.  Then I got skinny.  Nope.  Then I put on 25 pounds of muscle on top of that.  I actually looked pretty good, objectively speaking, and I tried parading around shirtless because I thought I was supposed to like looking good that way.  Nope, still hated it.  Then the dysphoria hit like a ton of bricks.

It always sort of felt weird to me as well. I would do it but didn't particularly like it, wasn't really comfortable. I think the only time I would do so was if I was at the beach or a pool. After I was done and dried I would put it back on though. My friends would do so quite a bit when playing sports like hockey or volleyball or again at the pool or beach, and be like that the whole time, and I wondered why, its not like it cools you down that much, being shirtless...