Quote from: learningtolive on December 07, 2013, 01:15:41 PM
What I've been trying to say is that most of us are scared of it even though it's inevitable.

Well...I have to somewhat disagree with you, I'm not quite sure most feel that way.

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I just never understood the people who say "I'm afraid of aging and becoming an old this or that, so I shouldn't transition".  It just seems hard for me to understand that mindset.   Fear of passing is understandable to me, but I don't get how age should be a factor on whether or not we transition.

Listen...passing is a HUGE part of this.  I'd be lying if I said I don't think I'll ever worry about passing. I'd also be lying if I didn't say I'm scared to death about transition.   Is it easier or harder for an older individual to pass?  Who knows? But I'm about to find out. I wish I'd been able to transition at 24.  I'm not saying it's a cakewalk for anyone to transition at any age.  But, I've seen the before/after pics of folks in their early 20's and it's mind blowing!!! While passing is a huge part of this, the even more HUGE part is the mind and the heart, aka what's inside you.  The end goal is to not feel dead inside any longer...and be HAPPY!!!  And that's exactly what I'm shooting for!   

I  feel extremely confident with the choice I made.

Whatever you do try & do it early in life, the less T bad stuff the better & nice estrogen will help so much easier.

I don't know.. what if you see transition as changing as a person instead of swapping genders? Because I guess that is what many are doing and in that case transition is always a good thing for you as a person.

I think for most people it would depend on their situation. For example, if you thought friends, family, and coworkers would accept you on that journey, it would be a no brainer whether you passed or not.

Personally I'm not in that situation. I work retail. It's pretty easy to fire me and me not be able to get a job. So if I knew I wouldn't pass, then probably not.

Quote from: bingunginter on December 03, 2013, 10:31:04 AM
I would not accept to be ugly female either.

A woman MUST be beautiful of course, that's an obligation.

Good old heterosexual male sexism.

Quote from: Kirey on November 23, 2014, 08:06:08 AM
I don't know.. what if you see transition as changing as a person instead of swapping genders? Because I guess that is what many are doing and in that case transition is always a good thing for you as a person.

That´s a very good point IMO Kirey

If I can't transition to pass I would probably end up being one of the 40% of transgender that commits suicide.

That said I'm pretty sure anyone can pull it off with enough effort and resources.

Being accepted is more important than passing.

Quote from: big kim on November 24, 2014, 05:42:25 AM
Being accepted is more important than passing.

Absolutely....but, like it or not, on a practical level passing helps dramatically in being accepted as very few people feel comfortable being around a woman who everyone else sees as a man.

Quote from: big kim on November 24, 2014, 05:42:25 AM
Being accepted is more important than passing.

Maybe, maybe not. If I am constantly viewed by everyone as "the tra**y" and not "Kate" I would have really serious issues.

I think acceptance of transgender individuals by society in general is a good thing though.

I also think "passing" doesn't have to be equated with looking pretty. I just want to look normal, as in what a female is supposed to look like. If I can pull that off I would be happy. And I'm fairly confident that anyone can with enough effort and resources.

So yes, passing is important, but you don't have to look like Miss America to do it. You can look like the girl next door, the girl working at McDonalds, or even the postal clerk or female police officer, who might not look all that pretty but she looks like a normal woman. And yes there may be misgendering here and there but as long as it's not constant I can live with it.

Quote from: GeorgE on November 24, 2014, 07:56:05 AM
My MTF point of view:

Hello, even if you end up looking not as attractive a girl as you hoped for during and after transitioning.  Isn't the point you are a girl?  We come in all size, shape and color.  I don't care if I'm an ugly girl as long as I am one!  OK, yes, looking pretty is important but still...

I agree. And this is my point about "passing."

I don't necessarily have to be ultra beautiful, because I think I would end up being fake and attracting attention.

However when people look at me, see me move and hear me speak they must see "woman" and not "man."

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on December 03, 2013, 07:08:45 AM
I always said I'd go full time when people started gendering me as female when I was showing the world that I was male. Thank God that happened, because IDK if I would've continued living if it didn't.

It's not about aesthetics, it's about people treating you as something other than a man, or a freak, or as some honorary girl that everybody uses the right pronouns on because they consider your feelings, but in their minds they're like "OK I know that's really a guy so expect *her* to be a man most of the time". It's about being treated as what YOU see fit as respectful towards YOU. At least that's what it's about for me.

This.

I honestly don't know, this is one of the greatest dilemmas I have. I'm 6'1, I have a very broad build because of genetics and lots of heavy physical work from a very early age. I'm 22 now, had big downs, put on a bunch of weight I shouldn't have, and quite honestly, unless I have a very optimistic day, I just can't see myself passing or being gendered as female by anyone. I'm still planning my transition, solely based on the facts that there are tall girls out there, there are broad girls out there, there are overweight girls out there, and as it's been said before me, if I can be a girl, even an ugly one, it's worth it. But if it's strictly down to passing, then yes, I need to pass, otherwise it doesn't seem to worth it.

Oh - that is a fitting word - being seen as a "honorary girl". This is good - it describes what I try to bring across some of the times if people ask me why I insist on being stealth if possible even though Germany is very accepting nowadays. Its because I dont want to have that honorary title there. I experienced that some tomes in my life and while everyone was nice and using the right name and pronounds and all that and in a way also nice to give me fashion tips and tips on shoes and hair and makeup... I felt like I am an honorary apprentice girl - a wannabe. No, I hated that deeply even though everyone was nice towards me - but I knew they still would not see me as a normal girl around, probably none of them would have shared a room in a hotel with me if needed. Such things are giveaways that people dont really see you in the right gender.

I guess it never is easy to fit into every job possible when you are seen as trans. For many jobs or if you already have a job and did great work, that is not an issue, but it definitely is harder. So yes of course, "not passing" can be a real financial issue.
Did you know that this is why Harry Benjamin "invented" the "Real life test"? It was not as it was used later on to test the persons true gender or diagnose transsexuality, it was merely a very tough situation where you could simply end up poor and starving if you were not accepted in your gender, so he was suggesting to first do this on a temporary basis before the permanent surgeries because what good would the surgeries be if you are then stuck in a situation that leaves you basically homeless and broke.

But I was more referring to the social aspects. Exclusion or different treatment by peers is hurtful. Being in a group of women and cleraly feeling that they see one differently, as "not one of us", mayve hug each other for goodbye and you get a handshake instead - that subtle things to me ar almost more hurtful as if some stranger comes up and would call me "sir" at the supermarket.

Quote from: anjaq on November 24, 2014, 05:36:12 PM
Oh - that is a fitting word - being seen as a "honorary girl". This is good - it describes what I try to bring across some of the times if people ask me why I insist on being stealth if possible even though Germany is very accepting nowadays. Its because I dont want to have that honorary title there. I experienced that some tomes in my life and while everyone was nice and using the right name and pronounds and all that and in a way also nice to give me fashion tips and tips on shoes and hair and makeup... I felt like I am an honorary apprentice girl - a wannabe. No, I hated that deeply even though everyone was nice towards me - but I knew they still would not see me as a normal girl around, probably none of them would have shared a room in a hotel with me if needed. Such things are giveaways that people dont really see you in the right gender.

"I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man with no feet." -- Ancient Proverb

Look up Sona Avedian if you have concerns about passing.

Quote from: Wynternight on November 27, 2014, 11:55:47 AM
Look up Sona Avedian if you have concerns about passing.

Sweet Aphrodite  She's gorgeous.

I'd say it was definitely worth it for me. I never could imagine myself growing up to be a guy & being a girl is so natural. If I had to act like a guy it would be completely forced. Living a life where you have to force yourself to act a certain way just to live isn't necessarily worth it in my opinion. So, yes. I would say that transitioning is almost always worth it depending on your circumstances. I mean... almost always worth it. Just take a nice look at your circumstances & what you have to lose. If your life is worth living miserably as the gender you were assigned at birth, then maybe transitioning isn't necessary. If you are truly 100% dysphoric over being the other gender, then transitioning can be very worth it. All just depends on circumstances & how strong your dysphoria is.