Quote from: Deborah on November 26, 2014, 04:22:53 PM
I don't know how the judge each case anything I might say would be speculation.

My guess is that they will just play external genitals. If those were ambiguous, they would probably go with what the person feels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

See that's what I mean.

Best of luck on your outcome. My SO is Catholic, she even has a Catholic job, it's just not been an issue. It depends on the individual and region. We may get married at some point, but as a non catholic wedding( I'm atheist, they won't exactly condone that.) We'll find out how a same sex wedding shakes out then.

Like I said, religion is not a reason to hate, it's also not a reason to break up with someone and I believe it's used far too often as an excuse to bring others down.

Quote from: ImagineKate on November 26, 2014, 05:17:54 PM
See that's what I mean.

yes, but this does nothing for the vast majority of us.

The church correctly identifies Intersex as a deviation from the normal human form.  It incorrectly identifies transsexuality as a mental delusion.

When science, medicine, and psychiatry can definitively demonstrate and agree that gender dysphoria is a physical Intersex condition in the brain then the Church probably will say something public and change their position.

Until then the Church will likely remain largely silent on an issue that is not mentioned in the Bible and on which science and medicine do not yet agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it's just a matter of time before they fully recognize us. I am hopeful especially that Pope Francis is talking about inclusion and getting back to what the church is really about. Pope Benedict did a lot of damage and I was saddened that he took the church in a more fundamentalist direction.

Quote from: Jaz650 on November 25, 2014, 07:45:53 PM
He's Catholic, he'll believe it's a sin to be with me.

This is why I don't understand how people can be Christian/Muslim/Catholic/etc and LGBT, when everything in their holy books damns homosexuality or anything that isn't missionary with the sole purpose of procreation. I know there are churches that accept LGBT people, but they just rationalize away all the horrible stuff and it comes off as disingenuous at best.

If someone allows their religion to interfere with their relationships with people they love, THAT is the true sin.

Quote from: Hideyoshi on November 26, 2014, 09:08:48 PM
This is why I don't understand how people can be Christian/Muslim/Catholic/etc and LGBT, when everything in their holy books damns homosexuality or anything that isn't missionary with the sole purpose of procreation. I know there are churches that accept LGBT people, but they just rationalize away all the horrible stuff and it comes off as disingenuous at best.

If someone allows their religion to interfere with their relationships with people they love, THAT is the true sin.

A deeply held belief is something you can't just dispose of. I've studied a good few religions, several flavors of Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism and Baha'i including reading the holy books. Hinduism doesn't have just one. It has a library. I have relatives who live the Hindu lifestyle and I don't see how they could give it up. Much of their lives revolve around it. Even atheists are setting up churches these days to gather and celebrate life.

I tried to be atheist for a while but I just couldn't wrap my head around how everything came from nothing.

no one is perfect. Only God is. So in that regard me having a "sinful" lifestyle is perfectly compatible with my faith.

I also believe that one day the church will "get" it. It took them a while but they embraced science and other things that would previously have gotten one excommunicated. But today the church reaches out to divorcees, single parents and even LGBT. The progress is happening but it is slow.

I have a number of sins to my name, such as divorce, infidelity, and not to mention things like masturbation. We also have kids via fertility treatment which i have heard is a sin. My pastor knows and the kids are loved by everyone in the church.

Even if people don't believe in God, church can be a decent support system. For me it helped me see and talk to people in my town including my next door neighbor who I wasn't talking to.

Quote from: ImagineKate on November 26, 2014, 09:35:24 PM
A deeply held belief is something you can't just dispose of. I've studied a good few religions, several flavors of Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism and Baha'i including reading the holy books. Hinduism doesn't have just one. It has a library. I have relatives who live the Hindu lifestyle and I don't see how they could give it up. Much of their lives revolve around it. Even atheists are setting up churches these days to gather and celebrate life.

I'm not telling anyone to dispose of their faith. I just don't see how they can live with such resounding cognitive dissonance.

QuoteI tried to be atheist for a while but I just couldn't wrap my head around how everything came from nothing.

And I can't wrap my head around believing something that has absolutely no evidence supporting it.

Quoteno one is perfect. Only God is. So in that regard me having a "sinful" lifestyle is perfectly compatible with my faith.

But you aren't supposed to keep sinning. If you were to do that, then it would make religion pointless.

QuoteI also believe that one day the church will "get" it. It took them a while but they embraced science and other things that would previously have gotten one excommunicated. But today the church reaches out to divorcees, single parents and even LGBT. The progress is happening but it is slow.

I have a number of sins to my name, such as divorce, infidelity, and not to mention things like masturbation. We also have kids via fertility treatment which i have heard is a sin. My pastor knows and the kids are loved by everyone in the church.

Why wait for religion to 'get it' when you can just live your life without fear of things for which there is no evidence? Why not just be happy and treat others the way you want to be treated instead of worrying about how you masturbated and that you divorced? Why believe in something that says COMPLETELY NATURAL biological activities like masturbation, anal sex, oral sex, etc are 'sins' that you should feel bad about?

Jaz, I hope that he accepts you and that you two can continue with the wonderful relationship that you have. Good luck, girl! As far as the church is concerned, to me religion is only political. They make their own rules up. If there is a god, he, or she, is probably shaking his/her head at all the misinformation their "bible" has in it.