Looking into FFS - probably going to go whole hog and get forehead/brows/hairline, nose, jaw/chin and trachea done.  I'm going to consult with the usual suspects in the US - Zukowski, Spiegel - but I'm interested in Cardenas in Mexico, purely on a price basis.  $40-50,000 is a huge amount to pay for FFS, and Cardenas seems to be able to do the same work for half the price.  I'm not one to penny pinch, but when we're talking about saving the large part of the cost of full SRS (which is also on my shopping list at some point), it's got to be considered.

Everything I've researched suggests that Cardenas is a competent practitioner on par with the US-based docs.  Perhaps not up there with Spiegel when it comes to the "genius" factor, but he's doing fine work at a fine price.  To me, that's tempting.

If I stretch things out, I could afford Spiegel.  But I'm not convinced that it's money well spent - I don't have unlimited funds or resources, nor any particular desire to end up stunningly beautiful.  Just feminine.

Thoughts? 

I suppose my question really is: "Cardenas is a great doc, right?"

Or,

"Is it stupid to penny pinch when it comes to one's face?"

Hi Brenda,
I think that if you look outside of the US and avoid totally unknown quantities, there are plenty of surgeons who will provide excellent results for considerably less than surgeons like Spiegel, Zukowski etc.. not to mention Ousterhout/Deschamps Braly who are on yet another planet price wise.
At minimum you have Cardenas, Di Maggio and Rossi in South America and with the Dollar /Euro exchange rate now far more favorable than a year ago, Dr VdV and Facial Team should now be very good value for money too and yes, the difference in price would largely pay for your GRS, probably even leaving you with some change should you do your GRS in Thailand.
No disrespect for the American practioners who simply have a much higher cost structure than others, starting with medical insurance, but just from a skills point of view, I have seen nothing that would indicate they provide better results than the well known non US surgeons.
Hugs
Donna

Totally agree with you Donna.

The most expensive is not always the best as I proved in 1991 when I went with James Dalrymple for SRS at London's 'London Bridge Hospital' and prolapsed soon afterwards. At that time he was training another surgeon and maybe it was he who operated on me and messed up, who knows?

Funny that the medical records of the operation went missing !!!

My other choice Michael Royle operated in his own clinic down in Brighton and was more reasonable. But I was naive in those days and thought that the more expensive option had to be the best.

Ironically it was Michael Royle and a Mr Clark who performed my colonvaginaplasty in 1997 down at the Sussex Nuffield Hospital in Woodingdean near Brighton ( on the NHS too ) and that surgery is 100% to this day, thank God.

Big operation though !!!

Quote from: Donna E on January 07, 2015, 11:16:59 AM
Hi Brenda,
I think that if you look outside of the US and avoid totally unknown quantities, there are plenty of surgeons who will provide excellent results for considerably less than surgeons like Spiegel, Zukowski etc.. not to mention Ousterhout/Deschamps Braly who are on yet another planet price wise.
At minimum you have Cardenas, Di Maggio and Rossi in South America and with the Dollar /Euro exchange rate now far more favorable than a year ago, Dr VdV and Facial Team should now be very good value for money too and yes, the difference in price would largely pay for your GRS, probably even leaving you with some change should you do your GRS in Thailand.
No disrespect for the American practioners who simply have a much higher cost structure than others, starting with medical insurance, but just from a skills point of view, I have seen nothing that would indicate they provide better results than the well known non US surgeons.
Hugs
Donna

Quote from: Donna E on January 07, 2015, 11:16:59 AM
No disrespect for the American practioners who simply have a much higher cost structure than others, starting with medical insurance, but just from a skills point of view, I have seen nothing that would indicate they provide better results than the well known non US surgeons.

Thanks Donna and Paula.  I suspected this was true, but it's good to have it confirmed independently.  There are some truly beautiful results coming from experienced surgeons outside the US.  I'll get a range of consults and a range of prices - but at the moment, a two week "vacation" (albeit rather painful) in Mexico is sounding like a pretty good option, especially if it'll help me pay for a three week "vacation" (and perhaps more painful) in Thailand to get the other major surgery completed.

Quote from: Brenda E on January 07, 2015, 10:56:41 AM
Looking into FFS - probably going to go whole hog and get forehead/brows/hairline, nose, jaw/chin and trachea done.  I'm going to consult with the usual suspects in the US - Zukowski, Spiegel - but I'm interested in Cardenas in Mexico, purely on a price basis.  $40-50,000 is a huge amount to pay for FFS, and Cardenas seems to be able to do the same work for half the price.  I'm not one to penny pinch, but when we're talking about saving the large part of the cost of full SRS (which is also on my shopping list at some point), it's got to be considered.

Everything I've researched suggests that Cardenas is a competent practitioner on par with the US-based docs.  Perhaps not up there with Spiegel when it comes to the "genius" factor, but he's doing fine work at a fine price.  To me, that's tempting.

If I stretch things out, I could afford Spiegel.  But I'm not convinced that it's money well spent - I don't have unlimited funds or resources, nor any particular desire to end up stunningly beautiful.  Just feminine.

Thoughts? 

I suppose my question really is: "Cardenas is a great doc, right?"

Or,

"Is it stupid to penny pinch when it comes to one's face?"

Just remember that this is not a contest to see who finishes first. That honestly doesn't matter in the long run. The thing is with surgeons is that sometimes, but not all of the time, you get what you pay for. I had FFS and had it done in 2 separate sessions from 2 different surgeons only because I wanted a result that would make me happy.

The single largest expense in my transition was FFS hands down followed in close second by electrolysis and third by SRS. That was me, your experience could be totally different.

I guess what I am trying to say is, if you pay more and get a more satisfactory result, BUT, it means you need an extra 2-3 years to have SRS then the question is, so what? You know it will happen someday so you plan accordingly. Very few people on earth will ever see your genitals but practically everyone will see your face.

I'd be willing to bet that very very few of us, myself included, had unlimited funds to pay for everything. I gave up tons and tons to transition. Lived for years without TV, even a cell phone, drove a nearly broken down pickup truck just so I could afford my operations. If there was any silver lining it's that I learned how to be a good saver and still have what I want afterwards

That's my $.02.

Advice appreciated, Zumbagirl.  You're right - it's not a race.  I'm not a youngun though, so a delay of five years has more significance to me than, say, someone in their twenties who (probably) has far longer life ahead of them.

But the main topic of price...

Surgery in the US is, without doubt, expensive.  This seems to be in part because medical care in the US is just expensive.  Generally good quality, especially when it comes to elective surgeries paid for out of pocket rather than through insurance, but it's a costly proposition.  If by going abroad I could bypass all the unnecessary expenses of healthcare in the US (the marble-floored fancy medical offices, the overpriced drugs and supplies, the state-of-the-art $100 million dollar operating room stuffed full of the latest equipment when a well-equipped operating room is all that is needed, subsidizing the doc's outrageous US malpractice insurance costs and the doc's private school tuition and European skiing trips for his three kids, etc.), while sacrificing little in terms of the experience and skill of the surgeon (which is what determines the results in large part, the other large part being my own face and what he has to work with), then I'd be happy to go abroad and save a buck or two.

If those savings allow me to shave a few years off the time it'll take me to save up for SRS/GCS (and those few years are getting increasingly precious), then that's a good thing.

I don't know.  I guess the answer is to get multiple consultations from legit FFS specialists (and not general plastic surgeons who dabble now and again in FFS), and see which suits my face, my wallet, and my calendar.

I absolutely agree that with surgeons, you get what you pay for.  But the location of the surgeon often significantly raises or lowers the price of the treatment because of the ancillary costs of running a practice in that particular location.  Boston is more expensive that Mexico or Thailand, and I can't extrapolate those price differences to conclude that the surgeon in Boston is automatically better than those who practice in areas where the cost of running a first-rate medical practice is less.

At the moment, I'll probably stay in the US though.  It's convenient and I think that for my face - which as you mention is one thing that I absolutely cannot have screwed up - it's probably worth spending the extra pennies to go to a great doc with access to great resources.  I'm not looking for every single facial feature to be altered, so the cost probably won't be too outrageous.  For the SRS/GCS, seeing as it's highly likely that nobody will ever see that part of me - perhaps not even me unless I'm dancing around naked in front of a mirror, which at my age won't happen - lowering the cost will be a more significant factor.

I know this is going to sound contradictory after what I just said, but I just wanted to add this little disclaimer. I went to Canada for my srs and part of my ffs was done in Thailand. So I am no stranger to doing things overseas. The question I suppose you could ask me why did I go overseas? Was it for cost? No it's because I wanted a specific outcome. That's how I chose my surgeons. When I went to thailand I wanted a very specific breast augmentation procedure done and Dr Suporn seemed to be the only person who could do it. So I went to Thailand. I wanted Dr Brassard to do my bottom surgery because of his reputation, the 1 step procedure and he seemed comfortable with my needs. I didn't go in with unrealistic expectations. If 85% of what I wanted was achievable then that was a good outcome to me. Remember when it comes down to surgery, you are the customer and the customer is always right

Makes perfect sense!  I appreciate the clarification.  Interesting to note that not all surgeons perform procedures in the same way, nor do they all produce similar results.