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why do you think so many are willing to chance transition without "passing"

Started by stephaniec, January 21, 2015, 10:17:09 PM

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bluebirdx88

I was me, fulltime and authentically for 5 years till I started HRT..... This was never about 'passing' it was about being me... If I wanted to 'pass' I'd be an actress ;)


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Jerri

so very interesting, although my path from the gates of hell where i left some guy I used to know behind has had many challanges, my life today is better in so many ways, even if I could pass I do not how it would be better. my choice to change my life and allow myself to live was not at all barred by the thoughts that maybe someday I would pass,
one day, one step, with grace it will be forward today
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Obfuskatie


Quote from: stephaniec on January 22, 2015, 02:59:41 PM
sometimes I wonder if I'm going to be busted by the cops because the estrogen feels so good.
Every now and then I feel like my ability to drive well is evaporating because of HRT [emoji6]
Well, that and applying makeup while driving...



If people are what they eat, I really need to stop eating such neurotic food  :icon_shakefist:
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bluebirdx88

I think this image answers quite adequately..




Obfuskatie: I honestly find that a bit offensive.... Almost kicked a friend out with the car in motion the other day for saying "Since you started hormones you drive like a woman..." .... .... "You hit like a woman too!" Okay it is funny in a way but still typical mysogynyst mentality.....


Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk



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Obfuskatie


Quote from: bluebirdx88 on January 24, 2015, 07:30:14 AM
I think this image answers quite adequately..




Obfuskatie: I honestly find that a bit offensive.... Almost kicked a friend out with the car in motion the other day for saying "Since you started hormones you drive like a woman..." .... .... "You hit like a woman too!" Okay it is funny in a way but still typical mysogynyst mentality.....


Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
I'm sorry for offending you or anyone else. [emoji53] It was not my intent.

Welcome to being a woman though.  You know you're there when you start experiencing discrimination.  And typical misogynistic mentality would be my saying there was something wrong with my being allowed to drive.  Mocking driving and force behind punches is pretty mild.  Get ready for glass ceilings and people assuming you can't do things.

In reality I'm pretty careful and have a great driving record, although I do have a bad habit of multitasking.  And 3 out of my 5 daily prescriptions warn, may impair driving or operating heavy machinery.  Or something close to that.



If people are what they eat, I really need to stop eating such neurotic food  :icon_shakefist:
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bluebirdx88

Quote from: Obfuskatie on January 24, 2015, 08:26:36 AM
I'm sorry for offending you or anyone else. [emoji53] It was not my intent.

Welcome to being a woman though.  You know you're there when you start experiencing discrimination.  And typical misogynistic mentality would be my saying there was something wrong with my being allowed to drive.  Mocking driving and force behind punches is pretty mild.  Get ready for glass ceilings and people assuming you can't do things.

In reality I'm pretty careful and have a great driving record, although I do have a bad habit of multitasking.  And 3 out of my 5 daily prescriptions warn, may impair driving or operating heavy machinery.  Or something close to that.
Honestly.... Having being living as me for 5 years before HRT and 5 months and a bit since too... Living in a country that is run by the Opus Dei pretty much.... I'm quite accustomed to facing it... And far worse... Just that I didnt expect that kinda generalizations here... I wasnt implying you were a mysogynyst, just the statement.. I'm sorry.

PS:: Yeah they say all kinda things on most meds.... Never experienced any to be honest...

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CrysC

The answer to the thread questions is something that I think varies with the individual. 
My answer is this.
I live in an area where I would go out safely however I please.  If you want to walk around Seattle with a full beard while in a tutu, only the tourists would bat an eye.  My desire/need to pass isn't for how other people feel.  It's about who I am and who I want to be.  I don't want to be seen as trans.  I want to be seen as a woman.  I want to feel I am a woman and not "on the way".  If I can still see any guy in the mirror when I look then I'm not feeling that.  I know this will keep me back but that is okay for me as I work to get closer. 
I'm not sure if I will even achieve this so at some point in the future, my viewpoint may change but this is my mind today. 
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Stevie

 I had too the alternative was rather bleak. I am 56 6ft tall 225lbs pre HRT, passing is a hit miss thing. However my life has improved in so many ways in the last couple of years, I have lost 160lbs I am able to feel happy, something that has eluded me for decades. Others have noticed more than the way I dress has changed, they sense that I am much happier and more social than I was before. Passing would be nice but the acceptance of the people I work with, my family, and my own self acceptance is more important for my well being. 
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Steph34

For me, transitioning is about being true to myself, for as long as I pretended to be male I knew nothing but pain and suffering. Passing, by contrast, seems to be more about how one is seen by others. Even if I can never be fully passable, just knowing that my appearance has feminized gives me something to be proud of, that I finally escaped the oppression of testosterone and started receiving the hormones that my body has been craving all these years. Of course I do want to pass, especially in my own eyes. I want to look in the mirror and see a woman, not a man, and to that extent I have already made some progress, though I am not fully there. However, the emotional and physical changes associated with feminization are so rewarding that when people gender me male, I can now shrug it off rather than want to die over it.
Accepted i was transgender December 2008
Started HRT Summer 2014
Name Change Winter 2017
Never underestimate the power of estradiol or the people who have it.
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jeni

Quote from: bluebirdx88 on January 24, 2015, 08:33:27 AM
PS:: Yeah they say all kinda things on most meds.... Never experienced any to be honest...
My spiro and my antidepressant both say this. On both, the first few days I took them it would have been a bad idea to jump right in the car and drive, just due to a sort of spaciness. That didn't last long after the dose, and for the antidepressant went away entirely after about a week and for the spiro is getting rapidly less intense so I think it's going to go away too. So I think it's good to follow the instructions and hold off on the heavy machinery until you know how you react.
-=< Jennifer >=-

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KristinEl

I don't transition for many reason. (the main one) passing, I just don't want to look like a man pretending to be a girl, I'd rather just stay looking like a man, I just don't think the ridicule is worth the effort. Another reason is the cost of transitioning. it ain't cheap, and having a job that pays a little more than minimum wage won't be able to cover anything whether it be surgery or hrt.. I'm 22, no college yet, no good job. From what I've heard the older you get the harder it will be for you which again goes back to reason 1. It's a never ending cycle for me. I've gotten use to the idea that I may never be able to transition and I've gotten comfortable being a man.
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LizMarie

Oh wow, about "passing"...

May I recommend a little experiment?

I suggest that anyone worried about passing go to these three places and wander around, looking at women. ALL of the women. Older, younger, heavier, thinner, tall, short. All of them. Look at those faces, hairlines in particular too especially of older women, etc.


  • Your local mall
  • Your local grocery store
  • A busy movie theater

Just go. And look at the women there. I've seen some really "male" looking women before who were trans. And I will make the comment that, in some ways, the older we get, the easier transitioning might be for some of us.

I place the following things as critical to passing.

  • Facial hair removal. This is huge. Getting rid of that shadow is an immediate visual cue that tells the observer "male".
  • Voice. Yes, deal with that voice, ladies. Training, surgery, whatever it takes, you need to feminize your voice. And it can still be a "low" female voice but be clearly feminine.
  • Face. This is where FFS comes in and there are enough excellent FFS surgeons on the planet that I simply cannot believe that someone can't find the right surgeon for their face.
  • Body shape and weight. Lose the man gut.


Regarding FFS, here's LizMarie's "guideline" about FFS. The majority of transwomen do not really need FFS to pass but at the same time, almost every transwoman will benefit from FFS.

I've seen lots and lots of before and after FFS photos, and frankly, from the photos, most of those women appear to pass before. Maybe not stunningly or beautifully, but they often pass. Yet at the same time, doing FFS can remove small tell-tale issues that not only might bring external attention but that might cause personal self-doubt about your own presentation. And as I've found myself, over and over, it's when I've doubted myself that I've gotten clocked.

So I am an advocate for FFS if you think you want it, because I think it's good for you as well as those looking at you. Your own sense of self-confidence is critical to you accepting yourself, which is critical to others accepting you.


As to Stephanie's original question, I can only answer for myself. I was caught planning my suicide in such a way as to make it look like an accident and urged by that very dear friend to get help. I was at the edge of the precipice and turned back. And when I turned back there were just two paths. One path led back to the precipice. The other path, transitioning, led away to a new life. I chose the path of transitioning because I decided I wanted to live, not die.
The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away.



~ Cara Elizabeth
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Eveline

Quote from: Jennygirl on January 22, 2015, 03:15:06 PM
The main reason to transition is to be accepted and live in society as your true gender identity.
...

Yes!

I've found that people can accept you, and you can feel accepted, even if you aren't 100% passable.

I think attitude has a lot to do with it.  >:-)

That said, I was very fearful of not passing, and was unable to start transitioning until I convinced myself that I would look "OK" when it was all over...
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stephaniec

It's totally understandable from all points of view whether be from fear of discrimination, fear of physical harm or even death or just wanting to fit in normally or finding a relationship with someone. I know for myself the incredible life long pain of body mind misalignment  For myself I've lived with this way too long, but then again I'm at a stage in my life where I have absolutely nothing to lose. I here all these stories on Susan's of families set in turmoil , friendships ,families torn apart and the need to transition is so powerful. I truly believe it's just a natural physical necessity for the brain and body to conform to it's natural state. If I would of know the process of transitioning at 18 years old , there is no doubt what so ever that I wouldn't of tried it out. My brain has been twisted 180 degrees from my body since I was 4 and like everyone knows it's not fun to be twisted 180 degrees.
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Tessa James

more than your knickers can get in a twist :D   Didn't Chubby Checkers have a great dance for that when we were kids?  How bout those twisted sisters?
;D
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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stephaniec

Quote from: Tessa James on January 30, 2015, 02:38:00 PM
more than your knickers can get in a twist :D   Didn't Chubby Checkers have a great dance for that when we were kids?  How bout those twisted sisters?
;D
use to play a game as a kid with a pocket knife and a lawn
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Carrie Liz

Because it's much better to be happy on the inside but miserable on the outside, than happy on the outside but miserable on the inside.

And, well, even if one doesn't pass, just having the right skin texture, the right secondary sexual characteristics, hormones that feel right, a sex-drive that feels right, emotions that feel right, and being able to dress and act exactly as you've always wanted, is worth it. External distress, and being teased and ostracized HURTS. But nothing is worse than that feeling that your body and your own mind are defective, and feeling trapped in them.
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missymay

Quote from: Obfuskatie on January 22, 2015, 07:07:52 PM
Every now and then I feel like my ability to drive well is evaporating because of HRT [emoji6]
Well, that and applying makeup while driving...

:laugh:
True Story:  when I changed my gender at my auto insurance company, they increased my premium;  :'(
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Wynternight

Quote from: missymay on January 30, 2015, 03:19:59 PM
:laugh:
True Story:  when I changed my gender at my auto insurance company, they increased my premium;  :'(

...

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at that...
Stooping down, dipping my wings, I came into the darkly-splendid abodes. There, in that formless abyss was I made a partaker of the Mysteries Averse. LIBER CORDIS CINCTI SERPENTE-11;4

HRT- 31 August, 2014
FT - 7 Sep, 2016
VFS- 19 October, 2016
FFS/BA - 28 Feb, 2018
SRS - 31 Oct 2018
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Petti

I think it would be very hard for me to transition without passing. I fear ridicule, being murdered or sexually abused and if my appearance was viewed as gender contradictory I worry that would bring much negative attention my way. For me it all seems to be a sort of damned if I do damned if I don't thing, because I either sit here presenting as male which most often feels uncomfortable, or I go full time which seems like it would be uncomfortable for the reasons I cited. However, I do know I am speaking largely from ignorance because I don't know how it feels to transition while not being passable - and maybe that would be the best feeling in the world one of liberation. I'm just scared to jump, and not really certain of the gender issues I face anyway. Either way I just really fear abuse, physical and mental, and the thought of someone looking at me and saying "that's really a man" or of someone following me to kill or beat me for being what they consider "gay" just scares me to nothingness.

If I ever do get hormones, I would probably prefer to just stay more or less presenting as male until they worked some magic then once I looked a bit more feminine I would venture out into the world that way. I really cannot express enough in words how fearful I am of assault and harassment, and reading up on the amount of that transgirls face scares me even more.

So weak. Wish I had the strength of some of you folks.
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