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Alabama Chief Justice orders ban on same sex marriages

Started by ImagineKate, February 08, 2015, 10:37:49 PM

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Myarkstir

Quote from: ImagineKate on February 10, 2015, 01:00:27 PM


Ugly. 51 counties not issuing licenses. Not good.

Edited by news staff to meet forum requirements
Sylvia M.
Senior news staff




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Tessa James

Quote from: ImagineKate on February 10, 2015, 01:00:27 PM
Judges In 51 Of Alabama's 67 Counties Refusing To Issue Marriage Licenses To Same-Sex Couples

By David Badash The New Civil Rights Movement
February 10, 2015 8:52 AM

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/judges_in_51_of_alabama_s_67_counties_refusing_to_issue_marriage_licenses_to_same_sex_couples

Can it really be called "marriage equality" when more than three-quarters of the state refuses to allow same-sex couples to marry?

Same-sex marriage came Alabama Monday, after the U.S. Supreme Court announced it would not grant a delay just as probate judges offices were readying to open. That is, some probate judges. In 51 of Alabama's 67 counties, some probate judges kept their offices closed, some refused to issue marriage licenses to any couples, some refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, and some, just 16 at most, were open for business as the law requires.

Thanks for the correction and update Kate.  I'll be skipping Alabama on my upcoming southern tour and imagine this kind of discrimination will hurt the state as well as those wanting and deserving equal rights.  More education and advocacy are answers to this blatant demagoguery and it seems certain the federal courts will prevail and simply cost Alabama some time and $ they could better spend elsewhere.
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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Tysilio

#22
According to the LA Times, a short while ago:

Four couples in Mobile have asked U.S. District Judge Callie V.S. Granade to instruct [Probate Judge Don] Davis to issue them marriage licenses after Davis stopped issuing all marriage licenses rather than having to issue ones to same-sex couples. The judge set a hearing for Thursday.

I doubt that she'll take long to issue a ruling on this; here come the contempt citations, I'd bet.

CBS is describing the current situation as "judicial chaos."

Get out the popcorn, kids, this is history being made, and it's actually pretty fun to watch, if you just take a couple of steps back.

Edited to add:

According to the New York Times, if Judge Granade issues an order directed at Alabama's probate judges, who are the people making this decision at the county level, they will then be personally liable for damages and court costs from any subsequent lawsuits aimed at forcing them to obey the federal ruling. And they've been warned:

The potential pocketbook issues had been one of the elements probate judges had to consider as they deliberated whether to issue the licenses. Sonny Brasfield, executive director of the Association of County Commissions of Alabama, said Tuesday that his organization had warned the judges of the possibility of losing liability coverage under a cooperative county insurance policy if they did not comply with a federal order.

Never bring an umbrella to a coyote fight.
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Makenzie

 I think the U.S. Supreme Court could and will remove Judge Moore for his defiance.
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awilliams1701

The good news is that if one is determined to get married and nothing else, worst case an hour or two drive will get you covered.

I think most of the people affected, while they want to get married, they are more determined to correct the improper behavior of the majority of the state at the expense of delaying their marriage. I'm just disappointed at the lack of measures taken against Moore and his followers. I'm surprised Obama hasn't sent the FBI to arrest them or something like that. Most of the difference between yesterday and today are some of them realizing this is only going to hurt them in the long run and there is a possibility they could end up in jail where as there is nothing happening at all to people issuing licenses.
Ashley
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Tysilio

#25
QuoteI'm surprised Obama hasn't sent the FBI to arrest them or something like that.

I'm not. Nothing would be gained by it at this stage -- it would just make a lot of people even more hostile to the idea of same-sex marriage than they already are, and as I noted above, the legal process is still in action over this. There are a lot of steps to take before it would be appropriate to start arresting people: the suit which was filed today is a big one. Justice Moore is effectively the county judges' boss, and until a federal judge directly orders them to comply (this hasn't happened yet, but it likely will on Thursday), they're faced with the choice of violating state law, as interpreted by Justice Moore, or violating federal law: damned if they do, damned if they don't.

The state's judicial ethics panel has the power to remove Justice Moore from office. They've done it before, and they'll do it again if he doesn't back down over this. If you were the federal Justice Department, wouldn't you rather see this handled at the state level, rather than provoke still more anger and hostility?
Never bring an umbrella to a coyote fight.
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suzifrommd

Federal Judge Sets Hearing in Alabama on Same-Sex Marriage

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/11/us/alabama-gay-marriage-advocates-renew-legal-push-for-licenses.html

By RICHARD FAUSSET and RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑA FEB. 10, 2015

By Tuesday afternoon, more probate judges were issuing licenses; those refusing were in 44 of Alabama's 67 counties, down from 54 on Monday, according to a tally kept by the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights group.

Among those resisting was Judge Don Davis of Probate Court here in Mobile County, the second-most populous county in the state. This made him the primary target of same-sex marriage advocates who asked Judge Granade to order him and his aides to issue the licenses. A hearing is scheduled for Thursday. Advocates hope that an order against Judge Davis would apply to other refusing judges.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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awilliams1701

Problem is that Fed trumps State every single time. By ignoring the federal orders they are in violation of the law. Given a choice between violating a federal law vs a state law, I'll pick federal every time and I'll sue the state for any interference in that regard. At least it sounds like this could be fixed on Thursday. I just think that jerk is getting away with far too much right now. I hope he goes to prison and gets disbarred. This is the 2nd time he's done something like this.

Quote from: Tysilio on February 10, 2015, 06:25:12 PM
I'm not. Nothing would be gained by it at this stage -- it would just make a lot of people even more hostile to the idea of same-sex marriage than they already are, and as I noted above, the legal process is still in action over this. There are a lot of steps to take before it would be appropriate to start arresting people: the suit which was filed today is a big one. Justice Moore is effectively the county judges' boss, and until a federal judge directly orders them to comply (this hasn't happened yet, but it likely will on Thursday), they're faced with the choice of violating state law, as interpreted by Justice Moore, or violating federal law: damned if they do, damned if they don't.

The state's judicial ethics panel has the power to remove Justice Moore from office. They've done it before, and they'll do it again if he doesn't back down over this. If you were the federal Justice Department, wouldn't you rather see this handled at the state level, rather provoke still more anger and hostility?
Ashley
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Tysilio

This article in the New York Times has some interesting background on this: specifically, it goes into some detail about Alabama's long history of defying the federal government over all sorts of things; it's pretty much a hangover from the Civil War, the remnant of that diehard insistence on "states' rights."

Such brazen and often futile campaigns are practically hard-wired into the state's character. Long after George Wallace's stand against integration in the schoolhouse door, to which Chief Justice Moore's stance has been inevitably compared, the state's record of taking on the federal government in long-shot battles has continued to set it apart even from its conservative neighbors.
<snip>
"It's like our oxygen is defiance and our identity is aggrievement," said Diane McWhorter, an Alabama native and author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning book about civil rights-era Birmingham, "Carry Me Home."


That history is another reason why it would be far better for the feds to sit this one out, at least for the time being. It seems to me that changing that pattern of defiance is a better goal than "punishing" the state for its actions, which is how any federal intervention would be seen. One way to get people, and perhaps states, to change bad behavior is to make them clean up their own messes. If Justice Moore is disciplined by the state's judicial ethics board, he won't be nearly the martyr/hero he'd be if the feds stepped in and cited him for contempt or arrested him.

Let the rulings on this and other civil rights matters come from federal courts, but give the state the chance to pick up the burden of forcing compliance with those rulings; if the people of Alabama see that they just end up having to fix the messes their leaders make, while looking foolish until they do, they'll likely have a lot less tolerance for the folks who make them.
Never bring an umbrella to a coyote fight.
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